Why The Turn On Palmer

[RugbyMuffin]

to be fair, Palmer was completely bailed out by an AMAZING play by Jaron Brown to steal back a sure INT from Richard Sherman who read Palmer's read PERFECTLY on the drive right after the Seahawks took the lead. But he definitely showed stones in that game.

Agreed.

But that IS Carson Palmer, and his style. The Cardinals will live and die by that type of play, and Arians is more than happy to stand by that style of play.

It is what it is, and personally (meaning just speaking for myself and no one else) I have no problem standing by that type of play either. Last 3 years have been the most entertaining football games that the Cardinals actually win, since I have watched the team.

 

[cardpa]

I felt there was a bit of disconnect between Arians and Palmer over the last couple games. Arians said Palmer was too conservative in the GB game so Palmer aired it out in the Carolina game and Arians said he had open receivers on shorter routes he should have thrown to. I think Arians was giving Palmer mixed messages and Palmer wasn't sure what to do. Earlier in the season Arians stood by Palmer even when he threw deep when he had open receivers on shorter patterns saying that is what we always look for.

 

[pemory09]

I felt there was a bit of disconnect between Arians and Palmer over the last couple games. Arians said Palmer was too conservative in the GB game so Palmer aired it out in the Carolina game and Arians said he had open receivers on shorter routes he should have thrown to. I think Arians was giving Palmer mixed messages and Palmer wasn't sure what to do. Earlier in the season Arians stood by Palmer even when he threw deep when he had open receivers on shorter patterns saying that is what we always look for.

Interesting observation. Poor on-field performance has a way of creating these types of situations. The Cards will need to all be on the same page throughout (obviously) if they have a shot of getting to, and winning, SB LI.

And for all the hurt, anger, befuddlement, etc. from the fan base (including me) after Sunday's no-show, I'm still in amazement that this current era is so great. Instead of wondering if the team will win more than 4-6 games, we can look-forward to again being one of the league's elite. When you think about it...that's awesome!

 

[Russ Smith]

I talked about getting RG3 and putting him on the bench in the "3" spot well before CP melted down Sunday. Go to the Washington game day thread during the regular season. I'm all in to see what he has. I was before and I still am. I want a new ear mobile passing QB. I never said dump CP the OP did. I was talking mobile QB throughout the thread not dumping CP.


I go on and on about getting a mobile passing QB next that's it. If that makes me dumb I'm good with that.



My last post in that thread.

I know I saw the last post I was just having a little fun with your first post.

They were talking about RG3 again today on ESPN2. Greenie likes him, it's quite clear the other guys on that show don't think he's very good at all.

One guy said the problem with RG3 is he's talented and young enough it might be worth developing him, but ifyou do that, you can't also take a young QB in the draft because nobody wants to groom 2 at the same time.

He then added when Shanahan and Jay Gruden both essentially decided he is not our guy, that really hurt his reputation with the rest of the league. Cousins finished up quite well but getting benched for him was a pretty big smack in the face that other teams noticed.

 

[SO91]

dude, you only have to look at your own behavior in those game threads to know no one should take anything any of us say there seriously.

Gameday threads should have a disclaimer. All kinds of crap gets posted there when the poster is either happy and excited, or angry and frustrated, or impaired in some way. It's a perfect example of why you shouldn't write, post, or email anything to anybody when you're emotional. You'll say some crap you're going to regret. Totally not talking from experience, trust me on that.

 

[Buckybird]

The hate for Palmer was simply ridiculous. Sure he played bad, but all this teams stars Had their worst games of the year except for #31. You aren't winning any playoff game that way. We weren't winning the NFC without scoring 34-35 points IMO & I said so all week. I thought we would, but nobody stepped up including Palmer, Fitz, Floyd, Smokey, Freeny, Calais, PP, the Oline or Buc. That's a recipe for a loss in the biggest game of the year.

Now everyone has to respond in 2016, including BASK to make this team better to beat Carolina or the Hawks at another chance for a ring.

 

[Buckybird]

Agreed.

But that IS Carson Palmer, and his style. The Cardinals will live and die by that type of play, and Arians is more than happy to stand by that style of play.

It is what it is, and personally (meaning just speaking for myself and no one else) I have no problem standing by that type of play either. Last 3 years have been the most entertaining football games that the Cardinals actually win, since I have watched the team.

Yep. Seems like most fans prefer the check down Leinart style lol. If Palmer wouldn't have played mostly great for 15 games they might have a point, but he was phenomenal for most of the season. That risk it no biscuit philosophy has it pros & cons. Personally I hate having a QB who's scared not to make a mistake because chances are you won't have team success if you're playing scared. Warner at times threw numerous picks & hell Favre has thrown more than anyone alive.

I'll got to battle with Carson Palmer any day any year.

 

[NJCardFan]

The hate for Palmer was simply ridiculous. Sure he played bad, but all this teams stars Had their worst games of the year except for #31. You aren't winning any playoff game that way. We weren't winning the NFC without scoring 34-35 points IMO & I said so all week. I thought we would, but nobody stepped up including Palmer, Fitz, Floyd, Smokey, Freeny, Calais, PP, the Oline or Buc. That's a recipe for a loss in the biggest game of the year.

Now everyone has to respond in 2016, including BASK to make this team better to beat Carolina or the Hawks at another chance for a ring.

If he was the only one playing badly that would be one thing but the entire team stunk. I mean even Fitz dropped 2 passes in his hands. Just wasn't our day.

 

[Buckybird]

Its a team sport. Elways wasn't getting a ring without a running game, and Palmer is not getting a ring when he is spending 75% of the time getting crushed by defensive tackles coming up the middle.

Yep.

Another thing is the Cards & Palmer will probably start seeing more zones played against them going forward not allowing the big play. I clearly remember how in 1984 very few teams could stop Lomax to Green for that reason. Come 1985 & on teams played them totally differant & the big plays were very few, much like GB & Carolina did the last 2 games.

 

[Buckybird]

If he was the only one playing badly that would be one thing but the entire team stunk. I mean even Fitz dropped 2 passes in his hands. Just wasn't our day.

The roster as built is a bad matchup against Carolina from the start. They had injured guys out in the secondary so Carolina wasn't going to allow long balls knowing that was the Cards game plan & it worked to perfection once they got behind. The Panthers could've ran it down our throats if the chose to as well. With that running game, the mobile QB & the playaction pass our D was vastly undermanned.

Sure Palmer should've & couldve taken more short balls but the Cards D wasn't going to stop this version of the Panthers offense. A total mismatch & I ignored that mismatch of our D vs their O. I didn't want to believe it was either because I thought we could outscore them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The thing with Palmer that the Carolina game just emphasized, is that he throws 4-5 BAD throws every single game. Think back on the year and remember how many sure fire INTs that were dropped. There are at least 8-10 that I can think of off of the top of my head. Carolina happened to catch them all, which highlights his deficiencies.

Yeah, he had a statistically good year, but it could have well been mediocre if he had thrown 20+ INTs.

Do I want him gone, no. He is still a top 10 QB in this league. He has to make better decisions.

 

[Buckybird]

The thing with Palmer that the Carolina game just emphasized, is that he throws 4-5 BAD throws every single game. Think back on the year and remember how many sure fire INTs that were dropped. There are at least 8-10 that I can think of off of the top of my head. Carolina happened to catch them all, which highlights his deficiencies.

I would say more like 1-2 every game. But you could say the same for almost every QB in the game today. It goes back to pressure. How bad did Brady look last week in Denver? Hmmmm

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would say more like 1-2 every game. But you could say the same for almost every QB in the game today. It goes back to pressure. How bad did Brady look last week in Denver? Hmmmm

Nope. Count them. Go back and rewatch every game and count them.

 

[Buckybird]

Nope. Count them. Go back and rewatch every game and count them.

Bad throws & dropped INTs are differant. Which are you talking about? Are you talking bout the GB & Car games only?

 

[Iceman]

The thing with Palmer that the Carolina game just emphasized, is that he throws 4-5 BAD throws every single game. Think back on the year and remember how many sure fire INTs that were dropped. There are at least 8-10 that I can think of off of the top of my head. Carolina happened to catch them all, which highlights his deficiencies.

Yeah, he had a statistically good year, but it could have well been mediocre if he had thrown 20+ INTs.

Do I want him gone, no. He is still a top 10 QB in this league. He has to make better decisions.

I think you are pretty accurate on this number. I still envision the one in SF where he threw it right at the defender. He dropped it because it looked like it went in the sun. Plus, there was not a receiver within 15 yards.

 

[Iceman]

Bad throws & dropped INTs are differant. Which are you talking about? Are you talking bout the GB & Car games only?

Think he is referring to the entire season

 

[GatorAZ]

Yep. Seems like most fans prefer the check down Leinart style lol. If Palmer wouldn't have played mostly great for 15 games they might have a point, but he was phenomenal for most of the season. That risk it no biscuit philosophy has it pros & cons. Personally I hate having a QB who's scared not to make a mistake because chances are you won't have team success if you're playing scared. Warner at times threw numerous picks & hell Favre has thrown more than anyone alive.

I'll got to battle with Carson Palmer any day any year.

It's not that fans prefer a check down offense but more preferring the check down "throw" instead of throwing a horrible pass down field. Tom Brady takes shots down the field but mostly takes what the defense gives which is the smart move. Palmer should still take shots when there's single coverage deep but there's nothing wrong with conservative plays to move the chains.

Also I still don't know why we don't run more designed screen plays. DJ catches passes but they're more of a route plays than getting him the ball in space with 2-3 blockers outside.

 

[conraddobler]

Let's not get too carried away with no risk it no biscuit.

As people have said what are you going to do when the book on the Cardinals starts being to never allow a deep ball?

Then either we throw a lot of short passes, run screens and draws or we're going to lose a lot of games.

Here's what works in the NFL.

Calling plays that work.

That varies from team to team and game to game and so we can call our stuff whatever we want and we can say we're going to do whatever but at the end of the day we're going to do what works or we're going to lose the game.

Having the deep ball ability to the extent we do is great at busting defenses up an stretching them out thus making everything else work better but forcing a team to take away your deep passes is just asking for some short passes to be there.

If you're going to say nah, that's not us, you can keep those shorter passes you're going to lose a lot of games.

 

[Russ Smith]

The thing with Palmer that the Carolina game just emphasized, is that he throws 4-5 BAD throws every single game. Think back on the year and remember how many sure fire INTs that were dropped. There are at least 8-10 that I can think of off of the top of my head. Carolina happened to catch them all, which highlights his deficiencies.

Yeah, he had a statistically good year, but it could have well been mediocre if he had thrown 20+ INTs.

Do I want him gone, no. He is still a top 10 QB in this league. He has to make better decisions.

That's true but we probably dropped 1-2 TD's in many games too. We had a game where Brown dropped 2, another game Floyd dropped 2 and had a 3rd he caught but didn't get his feet inbounds.

Even Cam in that game came very close to throwing 3 picks 2 that could have been Td's. The one PP got was nearly a TD(and in hindsight Ginn catching him was huge). The one that Bethel knocked away if he's a split second faster that's a picksix the other way.

There was another one I'm forgetting I think to a safety but maybe I'm blanking on who.

The big issue was all the throws Palmer has been hitting all year that he didn't hit in that game. The first few drives we had on every drive he missed a big play. 3rd down throw to Floyd, the one where he stepped up and badly missed an open receiver. the 2 deeper balls, the one to AE that was an easy first down and overthrown. Some of those were caused by pressure but many were just bad throws.

That's why I actually don't believe Carolina is even close to that much better than us. They won so they are better but if Palmer had hit on some of those throws we're not nearly as far behind and then he's not gambling the defense isn't gambling and the whole game plays out differently.

The difference between us and Seattle is they don't have to gamble to get pressure on defense so when they fell behind, they didn't give up a ton of big plays gambling like we did. that allowed them to take what was there and Wilson did just that.

 

[Buckybird]

Think he is referring to the entire season

Like I said that's not 4-5 every game like he said at the top of his statement. If that's the case he would've had a possible 80-90 INTs. Lol

Like I said those 8-10 dropped picks can be said of probably 95% of the QBs in the league easily.

 

[Buckybird]

The big issue was all the throws Palmer has been hitting all year that he didn't hit in that game. The first few drives we had on every drive he missed a big play. 3rd down throw to Floyd, the one where he stepped up and badly missed an open receiver. the 2 deeper balls, the one to AE that was an easy first down and overthrown. Some of those were caused by pressure but many were just bad throws.

They won so they are better but if Palmer had hit on some of those throws we're not nearly as far behind and then he's not gambling the defense isn't gambling and the whole game plays out differently.

Good points Russ. Knocking a guy who's been dead on with accuracy for 90% of the games this year is lunacy. The pass rush of the opposition, the importance of the games, the quality of the team & the finger all played roles IMO.

Most act like many QBs don't throw into traffic like Palmer was doing. When you get behind like we did, sure he was trying to force passes more than ever.

And yes the biggest problem is protection. When it was 3-0 Palmer had Smokey open for an 80 yard post but was hit right when he threw the ball causing it to be a bad throw & nearly picked off.

Improving the Oline & a 100% Palmer IMO can improve our chances of winning it all.

 

[USAFMEDIC]

I saw the difference after the injury. Hard to throw a football with a finger injury like that. I worked in orthopedics and seen a lot of these type injuries. Go out and try to throw a ball without that finger. Very difficult. He will be back better than ever next year. Sad that the injury happened this time of year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I saw the difference after the injury. Hard to throw a football with a finger injury like that. I worked in orthopedics and seen a lot of these type injuries. Go out and try to throw a ball without that finger. Very difficult. He will be back better than ever next year. Sad that the injury happened this time of year.

I definitely did, but it doesn't take away the sting at all.

 

[8ndkorner]

Is dumb. People forget what it's like with derrek Anderson or Skelton at qb.

QB is the hardest position to find a good one at. If you have one your ride it as long as you can.

I RED Skelton was a hobo these days.