Why will Murray fail?

[Delmar M Lewis]

'*****', we have enough Williams on this team in Chad and Brandon

Ile second that on the Williams part and cant understand why both are still here but it is what it is guess that could be camp fodder or something Now

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Best offensive coach in college football.

6 of his fellow offensive players this year were drafted this year
4 linemen
1WR
1RB

The defense may have been trash, but the offense was next level.

There you have said it these Super high octane offenses score so often most times that the defense doesn't have time to catch their breath between scores resulting in a high scoring watch, but often times ends up a losing effort in the NFL it's fun to watch but a well balanced offense wins more in the long run, I posted in another thread where in KKs offense a mixture of roughly 40% run to 60% pass should and could be successful

 

[Chopper0080]

That OL didn't look too good against Alabama...It looked great against TCU!

It was good enough that 4 got drafted. I watched a different game than you. i saw a dude who came in thinking he was going to do the same thing he did against all of the other college teams he played, and did not prepare for how they were going to scheme against him. He looked unprepared coming into the biggest game of his college career. He looked like he did not spend time scouting the defensive talent that he was going to go up against, and how he would need to adjust to beat it. If you are a hard working , perfectionist, college QB, who do you go into a game without understanding what Alabama can do as a defense. He looked like he didn't prepare for how Alabama was going to rush him and ran into a bunch of sacks because he couldn't out-athlete the field.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So where as Murray getting jerked around and abandoning the team is cool, but then when Rosen gets jerked around you want to praise his the class he shows which is far different from Murray.

It's not "cool", it's the cold hard facts of college football. Murray was dicked around at TAMU.

Which is it? Yes, Murray got jerked around, but instead of handling it with class, he took his ball and went to Oklahoma. He did what was best for him, and not what was best for the team.

And this is different from the dozens of other QBs that transfer? That's not "quitting" on your team. I didn't hear you knocking Baker Mayfield who flat out got beat out for his job and then acted like a total dick towards Texas Tech after the fact.

Murray quietly left and didn't knock anyone really on his way out the door. The only way we know what happened is because his teammates spoke up about it. Sumlin would literally hand the job to a new QB without talking to the QBs about it. Why would anyone stick around under that situation?

Rosen gets put in a similar situation, and it is his fault that he didn't perform better? However, you still praise his class when the team trades him instead of demanding a trade.

Rosen sucked last year and in my opinion, and obviously in the Cardinals opinion, had a much lower ceiling than Kyler Murray. It's a business, and the best business decision was to upgrade the most important position on the football field.

Rosen handled the situation fairly well in the end. I don't believe for a minute that Rosen's IG was hacked, but I can under why he did.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, how do we discuss Kyler Murray's lack of performance vs Alabama without mentioning freshman Trevor Lawrence's dominance of Alabama with less time to prepare?

 

[Chopper0080]

It's not "cool", it's the cold hard facts of college football. Murray was dicked around at TAMU.



And this is different from the dozens of other QBs that transfer? That's not "quitting" on your team. I didn't hear you knocking Baker Mayfield who flat out got beat out for his job and then acted like a total dick towards Texas Tech after the fact.

Murray quietly left and didn't knock anyone really on his way out the door. The only way we know what happened is because his teammates spoke up about it. Sumlin would literally hand the job to a new QB without talking to the QBs about it. Why would anyone stick around under that situation?



Rosen sucked last year and in my opinion, and obviously in the Cardinals opinion, had a much lower ceiling than Kyler Murray. It's a business, and the best business decision was to upgrade the most important position on the football field.

Rosen handled the situation fairly well in the end. I don't believe for a minute that Rosen's IG was hacked, but I can under why he did.

In this thread of thought, Kyler Murray sucked at Texas A&M and he wasn't good again until he was with the best offensive coach in football, behind 4 drafted offensive linemen, 1 first round WR, and a drafted RB.

 

[Solar7]

1st bolded - yet he didn't win the award for the best college player in the nation in his final year. Another QB, RGIII, did. Can you explain that?

2nd bolded - you say he hasn't exhibited these Solar7. Based on what, that Murray is a poor interview? The fact is you know zero about Murray's leadership ability. And "Intangibles" are overrated. Mental approach is important, very important. But the recycle bin of QBs is full of guys who were "100% committed to the game" and had great "football intelligence".

3rd bolded - ignorance at best, or disingenuous at worst. The former if you've haven't educated yourself by watching Murray's tape. But I think it's the later, and that's a shame.

4th bolded - a complete fabrication. Jackson yards from scrimmage in heisman year = 5100 Jackson total TDs in heisman year = 51. Murray yards from scrimmage in heisman year = 5400 Murray total TDs = 54. Plus Murray was way, way more efficient than Jackson, against a little better competition.

You really disappoint me man. I thought you were cool, but you became so emotionally invested in the draft, that now you would burn the Cardinals down to prove that you were "right". You're spewing venom like a viper, and turned yourself into an embarrassing spectacle.

You hate Murray more than you love the Cardinals.

1st - He was the runner-up twice. Murray wasn't even in the collective's thought process during any of his college years. That's consistency, it's not his fault that two other guys had really amazing performances that warranted more flash in the voting. It did not change the national perception that he was still the destined #1 overall pick and the best QB in years.

2nd - Since I knew we were nitpicking here, I said "comfortable in the face of adversity." Luck did not have the best teams, but he came in as a freshman, beat out the incumbent starting QB, and never looked back. Murray came into an open competition for the job, lost, and took his ball and left to another school. He then also proceeded not to participate in most of the relevant workouts, unlike Luck. Murray has also only lost two games in his career. He hasn't faced Luck's adversity, and it's a true red flag.

3rd - I've watched the tape, and I haven't seen enough of it. Most of the good stuff comes from two amazing WRs. I'm not doubting Murray has some good/great traits, I'm just expressing my doubt with so much talent around him.

4th - Hey, I mentioned my source, Heisman.com. Tell them to go update it.

5th - I saw your apology, so we're good, but I'm not burning down the Cardinals, or even Kyler. I'm just expressing severe doubt that he's going to crap rainbows and unicorns on gameday like some of you are.

 

[Solar7]

I have never argued otherwise, but is it enough to hate the pick and believe it is an extreme long shot that he succeeds? He put up one of the best statistical season for a QB in college history and showed that he can do pretty much anything that could be asked of a QB in the process. I can totally see being skeptical based on what he lacks, but to just write him off as a failure before he has played a single down because of those things seems overly drastic to me.

I'm not saying he's a failure, I haven't written him off. He's got a ton of potential. I'm just very skeptical and can't stand walking into threads where the guy apparently walks on water.

 

[Solar7]

His handling of the media and pre draft process have more to do with his personality than his play and perfection of his craft on the football field.

From everything I've seen, Murray is just a very shy person. He doesn't blow you away talking in front of cameras or over the radio. I don't see how that can translate to the football field where he is clearly in his element.

Marshawn Lynch was the exact same way. He obviously worked on the finer things of playing RB, but he HATED talking to the media. Not because he was a jerk, but because he didn't like the anxious feelings it caused.

Marshawn Lynch didn't need to be the leader of the team or put them on his back when they were down. Kyler's gonna be forced to the podium to talk about lack of success when it happens. When everything isn't going his way, how does the man respond? That's my concern.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It was good enough that 4 got drafted. I watched a different game than you. i saw a dude who came in thinking he was going to do the same thing he did against all of the other college teams he played, and did not prepare for how they were going to scheme against him. He looked unprepared coming into the biggest game of his college career. He looked like he did not spend time scouting the defensive talent that he was going to go up against, and how he would need to adjust to beat it. If you are a hard working , perfectionist, college QB, who do you go into a game without understanding what Alabama can do as a defense. He looked like he didn't prepare for how Alabama was going to rush him and ran into a bunch of sacks because he couldn't out-athlete the field.

Is Kyler Murray in charge of the offensive game plan??? LOL you're stretching here. The entire OU offense looked overmatched.

Ran into a bunch of sacks? Three sacks is a bunch? He ran for 100 yards once Oklahoma adjusted. And he still posted a 71 QBR when his team was getting there asses kicked.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Marshawn Lynch didn't need to be the leader of the team or put them on his back when they were down. Kyler's gonna be forced to the podium to talk about lack of success when it happens. When everything isn't going his way, how does the man respond? That's my concern.

You don't have to be good in front of the media to lead your team.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Also, how do we discuss Kyler Murray's lack of performance vs Alabama without mentioning freshman Trevor Lawrence's dominance of Alabama with less time to prepare?

Is Oklahoma better than Clemson? Clemson is better than Alabama.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are changing the argument. Your question was based upon meaningful snaps in college when he has an uber talent advantage. My response is that his talent advantage as a college QB was the equivalent to Matt Leinart's. It is a problem for these QBs because when they get to the NFL, they no longer have that advantage and are not used to figuring out how to deal with it.

Hmm you’re right. I did change the argument. Your comment is fair.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Also, how do we discuss Kyler Murray's lack of performance vs Alabama without mentioning freshman Trevor Lawrence's dominance of Alabama with less time to prepare?

He had a solid performance against Alabama and that was with a lot of his team being outmatched and with his #1 receiving target being out with injury. They really needed Brown's ability to stretch the field against that defense, but Murray still had a solid performance despite all of that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

In this thread of thought, Kyler Murray sucked at Texas A&M and he wasn't good again until he was with the best offensive coach in football, behind 4 drafted offensive linemen, 1 first round WR, and a drafted RB.

Well Mr sample size, I would turn your own argument against you say "He didn't have the sample size at TAMU".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have taught my son how to swing a baseball bat since he was 3. He has a very technically and mechanically solid baseball swing, and he is not in the least a perfectionist. You can refine your game because you have had good coaching, but that doesn't mean you approach everything with that same level of perfection. If Murray was a perfectionist, he would have handled his media obligations and pre draft process much better because he would have driven the process rather than relying on other people to do it for him.

Again I don’t think you’re wrong. But it might also be wrong to believe perfectionism is a requirement for success for every QB. I’m willing to bet Favre wasn’t the picture of perfectionism. Particularly not at the onset of his career. It might ultimately be what makes kyler and star or not, does he adapt as Favre may have.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I have taught my son how to swing a baseball bat since he was 3. He has a very technically and mechanically solid baseball swing, and he is not in the least a perfectionist. You can refine your game because you have had good coaching, but that doesn't mean you approach everything with that same level of perfection. If Murray was a perfectionist, he would have handled his media obligations and pre draft process much better because he would have driven the process rather than relying on other people to do it for him.

You can be a perfectionist on the field and not be one off the field. It's called compartmentalization. From everything I have heard about Murray he is ultra competitive in games and in practice to the point of demanding and expecting perfection from himself and his teammates.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So where as Murray getting jerked around and abandoning the team is cool, but then when Rosen gets jerked around you want to praise his the class he shows which is far different from Murray.

Which is it? Yes, Murray got jerked around, but instead of handling it with class, he took his ball and went to Oklahoma. He did what was best for him, and not what was best for the team.

Rosen gets put in a similar situation, and it is his fault that he didn't perform better? However, you still praise his class when the team trades him instead of demanding a trade.

Chopper this is maybe your worst post ever.

The situation at A&M existed for months. We have zero insight into what kyler tried to do to make it work. Rosen dangled for a day before finding out he was traded. Had it dragged on he surely would have demanded a trade. And I wouldn’t blame him at all.

Also, get that fake rah-rah he was out for himself and not the team crap outta here. For prospective pro athletes college is not about alma matter it is 100% about maximizing your opportunity to fashion your pro career. If you really castigate kyler for transferring you’re stuck in 1951. Athletes fly around the collegiate landscape now to maximize their pro career opportunities. I guess Hurd is a bum. And Wilson was a bum for his graduate transfer to Wisconsin. And so are the 100+ guys that transfer every year. Cmon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It was good enough that 4 got drafted. I watched a different game than you. i saw a dude who came in thinking he was going to do the same thing he did against all of the other college teams he played, and did not prepare for how they were going to scheme against him. He looked unprepared coming into the biggest game of his college career. He looked like he did not spend time scouting the defensive talent that he was going to go up against, and how he would need to adjust to beat it. If you are a hard working , perfectionist, college QB, who do you go into a game without understanding what Alabama can do as a defense. He looked like he didn't prepare for how Alabama was going to rush him and ran into a bunch of sacks because he couldn't out-athlete the field.

Well that’s ALL conjecture on your part. It happens to the best QBs. Sometimes they run into a buzzsaw that there may not have been anyway to prepare for. None of us know whether he put in the study or not.

 

[kerouac9]

His handling of the media and pre draft process have more to do with his personality than his play and perfection of his craft on the football field.

From everything I've seen, Murray is just a very shy person. He doesn't blow you away talking in front of cameras or over the radio. I don't see how that can translate to the football field where he is clearly in his element.

Marshawn Lynch was the exact same way. He obviously worked on the finer things of playing RB, but he HATED talking to the media. Not because he was a jerk, but because he didn't like the anxious feelings it caused.

Being and RB isn't being a QB. And Marshawn's handling of the media was a distraction and one of the reasons he was sent away from Buffalo.

Who are the very shy QBs who have had NFL success. Maybe it's not causative, but...

Played in different offenses.... Two played in the Air Raid.

You can build a list of Florida QBs and you'll see the same thing. USC had two good QBs come from there in the past two decades.

So does it matter that USC hasn't created great QBs, or not? Is this going to be like your argument that talented QBs bring WINZ to their college programs by themselves — hastily made and abandoned under the slightest scrutiny?

Does the program matter, or not? If it's the air raid, here's a fun list of QBs who come from that system:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GatorAZ]

He had a solid performance against Alabama and that was with a lot of his team being outmatched and with his #1 receiving target being out with injury. They really needed Brown's ability to stretch the field against that defense, but Murray still had a solid performance despite all of that.

Kyler didn’t have a lot of help but he was really bad early on. He looked wobbly, he was getting sacked with little contact and grounded some easy throws. They lost that game in the first qtr so it’s hard to put too much significance on numbers after that point.

THAT said Kyler will never have to cover for a defense that bad again. Same for Kliff. There’s still tremendous pressure on both but they won’t have to score 50+ to win games like OU/TT. I

 

[Dante]

He had a solid performance against Alabama and that was with a lot of his team being outmatched and with his #1 receiving target being out with injury. They really needed Brown's ability to stretch the field against that defense, but Murray still had a solid performance despite all of that.

Brown played in that game but he was a shell of himself because of the injury:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/c...cle_24e787ae-67c5-5ae9-85b1-513f70b35eb8.html

 

[BW52]

That is not an opinion. Objective fact. More TDs, more yards, higher passer rating.

Andrew Luck had 2 very good seasons and a decent freshman year How many did Murray have?Last i looked it was one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He had a solid performance against Alabama and that was with a lot of his team being outmatched and with his #1 receiving target being out with injury. They really needed Brown's ability to stretch the field against that defense, but Murray still had a solid performance despite all of that.

he was really bad when the game mattered and did nothing until his team was down 21 points against Bama.

And Brown played in that game.

 

[dscher]

I have taught my son how to swing a baseball bat since he was 3. He has a very technically and mechanically solid baseball swing, and he is not in the least a perfectionist. You can refine your game because you have had good coaching, but that doesn't mean you approach everything with that same level of perfection. If Murray was a perfectionist, he would have handled his media obligations and pre draft process much better because he would have driven the process rather than relying on other people to do it for him.

That doesn't make it everyone's truth. People can be "perfectionists" in many different ways. There is no hardened way of being one. Imo