Why wouldn't the Cards FO shell out an extra 2 mil a year for a SB ring?

[az1965]

Didn't Kurt himself said that he was not sure if his body could take the beating of another full season??? He has doubts about himself. There was a reason he was contemplating retirement. What we are offering is more than good. What he is looking for probably more retirement funds.

 

[lauraw]

gohard83, some of us do want the cards to do what's necessary to get warner back next year and '10. but I feel lied to as a fan because of kurt's schtick to all of us regarding his commitment to the valley, the cards, and the fans. personally I feel it was a lie, and he is all about the money. i would be too, but i would at least be upfront about it.

 

[SuperSpck]

Warner CLEARLY was the reason why you guys went to the SB last season. You could say that Fitz was a big reason but both Fitz and Boldin looked better with Warner than Leinart.

Warner made Fitzgerald and Boldin better while Larry and Anquan made Warner better.

A good QB is made better by good WR's and the reverse is true too. Warner didn't guarantee the Giants a SB ring with him.

Super Bowl losers often struggle the next season, regardless of who's kept and who's lost.

Correlation is not causation.

Nidian, Assface, Ryan, and Joe all have great points too.

 

[conraddobler]

It's not like we had some reclaimed wunderkind that spent a couple years in purgatory here, this guy is 38 years old and we supposedly have a QBOF sitting on the bench.

Putting all your eggs in that basket was the issue, there are no assurances and 38 year old QB's are ALWAYS a risk, trying to manage that risk isn't stupid it's smart.

They're still talking, they upped the offer, they're doing what you do when you negotiate, or should they just pass over a blank contract and let Warner fill it in?

It's always so much easier to spend other peoples money and someone from another board comming on here questioning how we spend our money is just beyond useless.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I've been on this forum for a while and I could never figure out you guys diss Boldin and now Warner so much.

Please don't lump me in to that crowd. I've been here since 2004, and in that time I can't recall once where I've dissed a player. Don't get me wrong, when a player is underperforming or doing something that I feel he's in the wrong for, I hardly kiss his ass. In fact, I think that I've tried pretty hard to establish a reputation of being one who can voice my thoughts without dissing anyone personally. I especially don't diss Warner, who I've openly stated is one of my favorites currently in the game.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Was it a risk paying Brady that much knowing he could get injured?

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Anytime you sign a player to ANY kind of contract, there's the risk of them getting injured. It took Joe Theisman roughly 3.5 seconds to have his career ended.. It took Tom Brady about 5 to have his season ended. At the same time, would you say prior to this, Brady was a wise investment? I would.

What we're talking about here is more than just a talent/money perspective. Not many teams in this league have the benefit the Cardinals have, with a potential franchise signal caller, a Top 10 pick and a former Heisman Trophy winner, who played four years in a pro style offense, sitting on the pine.

There's other avenues in this contract that should be explored by us as well. Trust me, if it was as simple as shelling out 4 million extra per season, Warner would have been re-signed by now.

And how old was Brady as Warner went to the SB THIS year. Age is irrelevant.

Not when you're 38 and have a 25 year old backup who is likely ready to start.

Performance is the only thing that matters when looking at a 2 year contract. If Warner was looking for a 10 year contract, that might a different issue but Warner was only looking for a 2 year commitment. Are the odds better for the Cards to return to the SB for the next 2 years w/ Warner (w/ all the chemistry, confidence, knowledge, etc.), or w/o him? Thus, his age is really irrelevant.

If we're playing the odds game, the Cards chances of making the Super Bowl again next season and having long term staying power are much better with Boldin re-signed than Warner. I think Leinart CAN lead the Cardinals there, don't think this experience of seeing his team nearly win the Super Bowl while he rode the pine as a spectator hasn't matured him more than he's reportedly already been matured on his own.

4 million saved could be 4 million given to Boldin, making him a happy camper and keeping him in town long term. You take Boldin away, I don't care how great Fitz is and Breaston is, you are missing a huge wrinkle. Take Warner away, the hole is there, but it's not a hole that is going to need major cosmetic repair to fix.

If Warner is re-signed, as I've stated previously, you may as well slap the "Sold to the Highest Bidder" sign on Leinart's back, and if you're expecting to get prime return for him, don't hold your breath.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Anytime you sign a player to ANY kind of contract, there's the risk of them getting injured. It took Joe Theisman roughly 3.5 seconds to have his career ended.. It took Tom Brady about 5 to have his season ended. At the same time, would you say prior to this, Brady was a wise investment? I would.

What we're talking about here is more than just a talent/money perspective. Not many teams in this league have the benefit the Cardinals have, with a potential franchise signal caller, a Top 10 pick and a former Heisman Trophy winner, who played four years in a pro style offense, sitting on the pine.

There's other avenues in this contract that should be explored by us as well. Trust me, if it was as simple as shelling out 4 million extra per season, Warner would have been re-signed by now.



Not when you're 38 and have a 25 year old backup who is likely ready to start.



If we're playing the odds game, the Cards chances of making the Super Bowl again next season and having long term staying power are much better with Boldin re-signed than Warner. I think Leinart CAN lead the Cardinals there, don't think this experience of seeing his team nearly win the Super Bowl while he rode the pine as a spectator hasn't matured him more than he's reportedly already been matured on his own.

4 million saved could be 4 million given to Boldin, making him a happy camper and keeping him in town long term. You take Boldin away, I don't care how great Fitz is and Breaston is, you are missing a huge wrinkle. Take Warner away, the hole is there, but it's not a hole that is going to need major cosmetic repair to fix.

If Warner is re-signed, as I've stated previously, you may as well slap the "Sold to the Highest Bidder" sign on Leinart's back, and if you're expecting to get prime return for him, don't hold your breath.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

Warner CLEARLY was the reason why you guys went to the SB last season. You could say that Fitz was a big reason but both Fitz and boldin looked better with Warner than Leinart. What I don't understand is why wouldn't the Cards FO shell out a little extra for your SB QB??? EVERYONE is overpaid in the FA, EVERYONE. Even 37 year old Kerry Collins got 8 mil a year and Warner had 18 TDs more than him.

Does a Superbowl ring means ANYTHING to the Cardinals' owner? 2 millions extra a year is pennies for a SB title don't you guys think?

HAHAHAHAHAHA! man we win a super bowl if we pay warner an extra 2 million!?!?!?!? Well then lets do it!!!

 

[Diamondback Jay]

 

[Diamondback Jay]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! man we win a super bowl if we pay warner an extra 2 million!?!?!?!? Well then lets do it!!!

How bout we pay the refs an extra 2 million, keep Leinart and...


Ahh the hell with it.

 

[WildBB]

Not when you're 38 and have a 25 year old backup who is likely ready to start.

That's really the hold up. But he won't take you where this team was. Not next year anyway.

It really comes down to, do you want another crack at the show now and can you wait another year for Leinart. We as fans certainly can, it's if the FO has itchy trigger fingers because of a looming 15M roster bonus payout due next season. Warner also knows this and needs to cash in this yr. because the odds of the org. keeping both beyond this upcoming season is minute.

Your other argument on Warner affecting Boldins re-do is a non-argument. Boldins contract can be structured where his bonus doesn't have to outweigh the salary. There are ways to accomplish Boldin's wishes.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That's really the hold up. But he won't take you where this team was. Not next year anyway.

It really comes down to, do you want another crack at the show now and can you wait another year for Leinart. We as fans certainly can, it's if the FO has itchy trigger fingers because of a looming 15M roster bonus payout due next season. Warner also knows this and needs to cash in this yr. because the odds of the org. keeping both beyond this upcoming season is minute.

Your other argument on Warner affecting Boldins re-do is a non-argument. Boldins contract can be structured where his bonus doesn't have to outweigh the salary. There are ways to accomplish Boldin's wishes.

Says you. Again... Did you predict that Warner would take us to the Superbowl last year? If you did that, then you might have some credibility about this sort of thing.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

That's really the hold up. But he won't take you where this team was. Not next year anyway.

There's also no iron clad guarantee that at 38, Warner won't take a step backwards next season and begin showing signs of age, leading to the Cardinals missing the playoffs altogether. Subsequently, there's no guarantee that Leinart WON'T come in and lead the team back to the playoffs and possibly beyond.

Your other argument on Warner affecting Boldins re-do is a non-argument. Boldins contract can be structured where his bonus doesn't have to outweigh the salary. There are ways to accomplish Boldin's wishes.

There are, but when it all breaks down, it's all about the money.

 

[Cards232]

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Anytime you sign a player to ANY kind of contract, there's the risk of them getting injured. It took Joe Theisman roughly 3.5 seconds to have his career ended.. It took Tom Brady about 5 to have his season ended. At the same time, would you say prior to this, Brady was a wise investment? I would.

What we're talking about here is more than just a talent/money perspective. Not many teams in this league have the benefit the Cardinals have, with a potential franchise signal caller, a Top 10 pick and a former Heisman Trophy winner, who played four years in a pro style offense, sitting on the pine.

There's other avenues in this contract that should be explored by us as well. Trust me, if it was as simple as shelling out 4 million extra per season, Warner would have been re-signed by now.



Not when you're 38 and have a 25 year old backup who is likely ready to start.



If we're playing the odds game, the Cards chances of making the Super Bowl again next season and having long term staying power are much better with Boldin re-signed than Warner. I think Leinart CAN lead the Cardinals there, don't think this experience of seeing his team nearly win the Super Bowl while he rode the pine as a spectator hasn't matured him more than he's reportedly already been matured on his own.

4 million saved could be 4 million given to Boldin, making him a happy camper and keeping him in town long term. You take Boldin away, I don't care how great Fitz is and Breaston is, you are missing a huge wrinkle. Take Warner away, the hole is there, but it's not a hole that is going to need major cosmetic repair to fix.

If Warner is re-signed, as I've stated previously, you may as well slap the "Sold to the Highest Bidder" sign on Leinart's back, and if you're expecting to get prime return for him, don't hold your breath.

I respect your opinions & you make some good points, but let's again talk about the odds. You say you think Leinart is ready to lead the Card's to the SB. You may be right. But you may be wrong, & Leinart has not shown once in his 4 years here that he is ready to do so. He's looked good at times, but he's never looked like an MVP candidate, & certainly not like a qb poised to take us to the SB. On the other hand, Warner was an MVP candidate & did take us to the SB. Again, it's the known vs. the unknown. We know that Warner can take us there because he has. We still don't know for sure w/ Leinart. Has he matured enough, learned enough? We just don't know.

Talking about the odds, how did we do w/o Boldin last year? I think we even won a playoff game vs. a very good defense, on the road, in the eastern time zone w/o him. Breaston filled in very nicely. Leinart has yet to show that he can read defenses, go through reads, & make the correct line calls. Warner has done all that. And then taken us to the SB to boot.

Could there be a reason we wouldn't get a prime return for Leinart? Perhaps b/c he's unproven? So why put your eggs in the unproven basket w/ the "hope" it might work out, when you've already proven basket ready to be filled again.

Some here have used the age & injury mantra. A question to those, who has missed more games due to injury over the last few years, Warner or Leinart? Remember as well, Leinart had shoulder problems going back to his Junior year at SC (many attribute that to the reason he stayed for his senior season).

So, w/ all that being said, the odds a far greater of getting back to the SB w/ Warner than w/ Leinart for the next couple of year IMHO. Health, experience, & the "been there & done that" factor. I've stated before, I'm a big Lainart fan despite my post here. I've been a USC homer for longer than most of you have been alive & probably coached longer as well. I believe Leinart has the tools to eventually be a very good qb in this league. But when you're playing behind a HOF qb who still has gas left in the tank, your time is not quite yet. Unless of course you play for a team about to make a colossal mistake. Again, IMHO.

Should be an interesting couple of days.

 

[Sandan]

Warner is 38, the real odds are he will not be as good this year.

37-38 is a much bigger falloff that 27-28 [which is no falloff at all]. Inuries happen more easily and take longer to heal, you get slower, weaker and have less energy.

I wish this were not true but it is

 

[TheCardFan]

Warner won you the biggest game of your fanhood didn't he? you guys got the NFC Champs Title with him behind center. I don't understand why fans and the owner aren't giving this guy any respect.

To me, 2 mil a year is WORTH the risk unless you don't want a Superbowl title. That's all I'm saying.

You can't use logic and reason here...most people have forgotten where we were 12 months ago. Warner gets zero respect from the majority on this board. It's a sad situation.

 

[Cards232]

Warner is 38, the real odds are he will not be as good this year.

37-38 is a much bigger falloff that 27-28 [which is no falloff at all]. Inuries happen more easily and take longer to heal, you get slower, weaker and have less energy.

I wish this were not true but it is

Didn't we hear the same thing this year? Warner has beaten the odds throughout his career. Them odds also tell us the is a slow decline in performance in all facets from the mid 30's on. Has that applied to Warner? Is he slower, less accurate? Can he no longer throw the deep ball? Is he slower in his reads, less apt to recognize & deal w/ the blitz'? If he hasn't shown any of those signs yet, then the ODDS are that he'll do just fine next year & quite probably beyond if the desire is there.

Injuries? Who's been out more games due to injury the last few years, Warner or Leinart? How about Brady? Warner had the most qb hits in the league this year, & still didn't miss one game. Now, was that just all luck, or has he perhaps learned how to take a hit? Go back & watch the tapes & see how he handles hits for the better part. Just food for thought.

 

[Sandan]

What you are missing is that once you get to 38 the odds, you keep suggesting he is beating, get harder and hard to beat.

This isn't about disrespect or not valuing what he brought last year. Its not even saying I don't want him back, because I do.

Its just saying that you have to recognize the reality that age catches up with us, training and talent can only offset that so far.

The odds are Kurt will not be a as good or as durable next year.

 

[Cards232]

What you are missing is that once you get to 38 the odds, you keep suggesting he is beating, get harder and hard to beat.

This isn't about disrespect or not valuing what he brought last year. Its not even saying I don't want him back, because I do.

Its just saying that you have to recognize the reality that age catches up with us, training and talent can only offset that so far.

The odds are Kurt will not be a as good or as durable next year.

I hear what you're saying, but you're missing the point. Normally there's a gradual decline before the cliff. Even if Warner starts the gradual decline next year, those abilities should still compensate for the lack of experience & abilities we would have otherwise. The odds are that Warner will not fall off the cliff. Leinart is still climbing the mountain.

BTW, given the history, the odds are not good that Leinart will be more durable.

 

[WildBB]

There's also no iron clad guarantee that at 38, Warner won't take a step backwards next season and begin showing signs of age, leading to the Cardinals missing the playoffs altogether. Subsequently, there's no guarantee that Leinart WON'T come in and lead the team back to the playoffs and possibly beyond.



There are, but when it all breaks down, it's all about the money.

If that's the case he gets one year and he's out. As a matter of fact, if they are not winning the NFC West he gets benched and the Leinart era begins at least a year early. No big deal.

But....he has the makeup and the players believe in him. That's big. Plus he's comfortable with this group. Also big.

 

[TigToad]

Its in no way a respect issue. I respect Kurt Warner as a player and as a person. I just have a different opinion on the value of his services and just how big of a part of the team he is.

I'm absolutely wanting him back (and I am a Leinart believer). I just disagree with the figure he is quoting, in large part due to his track record with the team before the last 2 years and his age.

Thats it.

You can't use logic and reason here...most people have forgotten where we were 12 months ago. Warner gets zero respect from the majority on this board. It's a sad situation.