Will Dirk be back for Sun PHX v DAL?

[Lorenzo]

Generally, Amare shoots threes only with the shot clock winding down, and often forcing them up under pressure. I wonder what his 3P% would be if he only took “good” attempts.

I wonder how many pts. dirk would average now if he played with steve nash? dirk's game is so much improved from the time nash left the mavs.....and ironically it's because of that. a lot of credit goes to avery johnson too.

 

[Covert Rain]

that's just it. dirk is a multipurpose guy. why are you going to tell a great shooter who is 7 foot tall not to shoot over people. when his shot is off he does attack the basket and obviously you don't watch much of dirk's game because he does a great job of putting his back to the basket and getting a high percentage shot. obviously he can't do that right now because of his ankle. but you don't tell a great jump shooter to stop shooting jumpers and only live under the basket. he has to be able to do both when needed. and if he can that will be the difference for the mavs. he was able to do it the year they made it to the finals. he had a great playoff run that year in scoring and rebounding. last season golden state stopped him....plain and simple.

I consider a player with an all around game if he can play inside and out. That to me is multipurpose. Dirk has no inside game. That doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means he doesn't do it. Even when I have seen his shot go south he just doesn't do it. The Golden State series was a prime example. Even the commentators were screaming for the guy to go to the rim. When your shot is not falling, why not play under the rim for a higher percentage shot? The reason is Dirk is a jump shooter. I think it's great that he can shoot the way he does for a guy his size.

It's just Dirk will take a jump shot over physical contact down low 9 out of 10 times. The guy is soft. He is more of a finesse big man. Dirk just plays his game.. he can't help that his game isn't that of a typical big man. Just because Dirk is soft for a big man doesn't mean he isn't still a good player. He is a very good player.

 

[Lorenzo]

I consider a player with an all around game if he can play inside and out. That to me is multipurpose. Dirk has no inside game. That doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means he doesn't do it. Even when I have seen his shot go south he just doesn't do it. The Golden State series was a prime example. Even the commentators were screaming for the guy to go to the rim. When your shot is not falling, why not play under the rim for a higher percentage shot? The reason is Dirk is a jump shooter. I think it's great that he can shoot the way he does for a guy his size.

It's just Dirk will take a jump shot over physical contact down low 9 out of 10 time. The guy is soft. He is more of a finesse big man. Dirk just plays his game.. he can't help that his game isn't that of a typical big man.

I agree that he is not a physical big man....like amare....like TD...like KG who isn't a physical machine himself. and all of those players besides TD have taken heat for lacking in a paticular area. those guys are more physical than dirk is. but you are going overboard. look at nowagimp's post. dirk against boston went toe to toe with KG at both ends. in the 4th qtr dirk was going to the basket almost everytime he got the ball. unfortunately the ball didn't bounce his way and he didn't get to the FT line. to say that dirk won't go to the basket or go down low is wrong. it's also wrong to say that he won't play with his back to the basket....because about half of the play's they run for dirk in the half court setting he puts his back to the basket. yes he's known for being a finess type player. but that makes him soft?

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree that he is not a physical big man....like amare....like TD...like KG who isn't a physical machine himself. and all of those players besides TD have taken heat for lacking in a paticular area. those guys are more physical than dirk is. but you are going overboard. look at nowagimp's post. dirk against boston went toe to toe with KG at both ends. in the 4th qtr dirk was going to the basket almost everytime he got the ball. unfortunately the ball didn't bounce his way and he didn't get to the FT line. to say that dirk won't go to the basket or go down low is wrong. it's also wrong to say that he won't play with his back to the basket....because about half of the play's they run for dirk in the half court setting he puts his back to the basket. yes he's known for being a finess type player. but that makes him soft?

Playing with your back to the basket doesn't mean your not soft. Dirk doesn't typically bang a guy down and go to the rim. Usually, Dirk likes to shoot his fade away or his turn around jumper while creating space.

Dirk does that way more often then banging a guy down low and working his way to the rim. Again, I didn't say he wasn't capable. I am saying that Dirk doesn't like to. He prefers to jump shoot his defender to death.

This can't be new news to you. I have been hearing that about Dirk and seeing it with my own eye for years now.

 

[Lorenzo]

Playing with your back to the basket doesn't mean your not soft. Dirk doesn't typically bang a guy down and go to the rim. Usually, Dirk likes to shoot his fade away or his turn around jumper while creating space.

Dirk does that way more often then banging a guy down low and working his way to the rim. Again, I didn't say he wasn't capable. I am saying that Dirk doesn't like to. He prefers to jump shoot his defender to death.

This can't be new news to you. I have been hearing that about Dirk and seeing it with my own eye for years now.

it's not new to me. you said he doesn't play with his back to the basket. at least that's what I read. I apologize if I took it out of context, but i don't know that i did. We disagree that he's soft. he's not a typical PF or 7 footer. if he was he wouldn't be as great as he is. If he was a typical 7 footer...with his current frame....he would be lucky to be as good as Pao Gasol is. if that makes him soft in your eyes...that's just the way it's gonna be. I have no problem with that. and you are right about most of your observations. but look at his playoff numbers and regular season numbers and his productivity in wins and losses. and I'm talking rebounding and scoring from all areas of the court. and then compare it to KG and amare. he compares with both of those two........with the exception that he has won a conference title. all that while being the softest big man in the game. I'll take it as a mavs fan. and I'd take amare or KG on my team if they were. I'm not trying to say dirk is better than those two here. just trying to defend him. because he is not soft in my opinion. but again that's just me. If you asked me who I wanted between dirk and gasol(a guy with a similiar frame who plays like a typical 7 footer) I'd pick dirk. I'm just trying to make a point in that what makes dirk special is that he is unique. if he were a typical 7 footer...he wouldn't be the player he is. most of it goes back to his build and his devolpment as a player. he is certainly a freak of nature.

 

[Lorenzo]

Are you freaking serious?

you are asking me if I'm serious? I may be wrong......but I'm getting the impression that you are comparing steve nash to michael jordan. so if that is indeed the case you should ask yourself that question. If I am misconstrueing(sorry i am a horrible speller) your comment then please forgive me. but yes...swap out mike jordan's role players and he still wins some titles. there is a difference here. mike jordan won 6 titles with a bunch of role players.....pippen was a star. he was a great defender....had a reliable offensive game. he was a slasher. steve nash has yet to win ONE with or without multiple all stars and other decent role players on his team. so please help me understand where that's going. also dirk scored all those points on phoenix in that series with marion...tim thomas...ect. guarding him. he also shot a lot of free throws due to his aggressive play. bell missed one or two games I can't remember. I'd imagine the MVP of the league would of been able to make up for the loss. Ironically I think that year dirk should of won the mvp....more so than the next. Many people voted for him the next season because he took his game to another level in the playoffs despite Wade outgunning him in the finals.

nowagimp you noticed that dirk did play very physical vs. the celtics and the pistons. in the game vs. the spurs(the last one in SA) the mavs lost by like 3 points. dirk had a horrible shooting night. but he shot like 19 free throws and still scored 30 points i believe. again not saying he's shaq in the low block here....but he does get to the basket. and again these are the 3 most physical teams in the league from an entire team standpoint.

 

[capologist]

you are asking me if I'm serious? I may be wrong......but I'm getting the impression that you are comparing steve nash to michael jordan.

No, I’m not.

You claimed that Nash was no more clutch than Dirk because Dirk knocked Nash out of the playoffs. I’m pointing out that the obstacles facing Nash were so extreme that even Michael Jordan couldn’t have won under those circumstances.

 

[Lorenzo]

No, I’m not.

You claimed that Nash was no more clutch than Dirk because Dirk knocked Nash out of the playoffs. I’m pointing out that the obstacles facing Nash were so extreme that even Michael Jordan couldn’t have won under those circumstances.

that remains to be seen. I'd like to see jordan in his prime on that phoenix team........or maybe not. then dallas probably would have never defeated them. i was being a bit sarcastic in saying what I said about nash. and I already posted that. my point is as you say.....nash is no more clutch than dirk. they are almost one in the same in their overall accomplishments except for nash has one more MVP trophy. but dirk has just as much playoff success......and failures as nash does. you can say dirk got bounced out of the first round. I could bring up when both got bounced out of the first round on their last year together. I could also say dirk is a step ahead for making the finals over nash. what does it matter. neither player has a ring. so if you are a phoenix fan you are going to say nash is more clutch.....obviously. I've seen nash and dirk play together and play second fiddle to the spurs year after year. I've seen both players take their game to another level since then.......especially dirk(because steve played like that in dallas). but nash is currently still being held back by the spurs. and dirk is still having his playoff issues. and let's look at their overall head to head games........talking both reg season and playoffs here. It's been almost 50-50. both have hit big time shots vs. one another. dirk hit a couple of buzzer game winners. nash hit some game saving threes that sent games to OT that ultimately phoenix won. dirk had a 50 point game vs. phoenix that turned the series. nash had a 40+ point game I believe against the mavs. so tell me one's clearly more clutch than the other. If anything these are two best friends that have much....much in common. I can keep going if you like.

 

[Lorenzo]

another thing. I acknowledge the series dirk had vs. golden state. and the fact that he has lost his last two playoff series.....after a brilliant run prior that he led his team. that's where most of the reputation of being a choker comes in. but in reality he and nash have both had almost an equal experience from a success standpoint overall when it comes to the NBA playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

it's not new to me. you said he doesn't play with his back to the basket. at least that's what I read. I apologize if I took it out of context, but i don't know that i did. We disagree that he's soft. he's not a typical PF or 7 footer. if he was he wouldn't be as great as he is. If he was a typical 7 footer...with his current frame....he would be lucky to be as good as Pao Gasol is. if that makes him soft in your eyes...that's just the way it's gonna be. I have no problem with that. and you are right about most of your observations. but look at his playoff numbers and regular season numbers and his productivity in wins and losses. and I'm talking rebounding and scoring from all areas of the court. and then compare it to KG and amare. he compares with both of those two........with the exception that he has won a conference title. all that while being the softest big man in the game. I'll take it as a mavs fan. and I'd take amare or KG on my team if they were. I'm not trying to say dirk is better than those two here. just trying to defend him. because he is not soft in my opinion. but again that's just me. If you asked me who I wanted between dirk and gasol(a guy with a similiar frame who plays like a typical 7 footer) I'd pick dirk. I'm just trying to make a point in that what makes dirk special is that he is unique. if he were a typical 7 footer...he wouldn't be the player he is. most of it goes back to his build and his devolpment as a player. he is certainly a freak of nature.

A freak of nature he is.....a soft freak of nature but still that.

 

[capologist]

I could also say dirk is a step ahead for making the finals over nash.

Do you think Dirk would have made it to the Finals if Raja Bell, Amare Stoudemire, and Kurt Thomas hadn’t been injured? If Dirk is more accomplished (which, really, he isn’t), it’s because his teams have avoided the injury bug. If you put those teams in that series with both teams equally healthy, then Nash makes the Finals, and Dirk doesn’t. That’s not even debatable.

 

[Lorenzo]

A freak of nature he is.....a soft freak of nature but still that.

I'll accept it I guess. as long as he can continue to drop a soft 30 on the suns like he usually does. don't think it's gonna happen sunday though.

 

[Lorenzo]

Do you think Dirk would have made it to the Finals if Raja Bell, Amare Stoudemire, and Kurt Thomas hadn’t been injured? If Dirk is more accomplished (which, really, he isn’t), it’s because his teams have avoided the injury bug. If you put those teams in that series with both teams equally healthy, then Nash makes the Finals, and Dirk doesn’t. That’s not even debatable.

ok I see where you are going. I never said dirk is more accomplished.......that came from you. so if he is so be it. I said he's as accomplished as nash.......short one mvp trophy. read my posts again if you don't believe me. If I recall correctly bell played in the series and missed the final game or two. thomas never formed any true type of consistent flow for a long stretch.. with the suns up until that point.......at least that I remember. I thought thomas was injured most of the year. amare was out for the season. that's no fault of dirk....or the mavs. they took care of business like they should of against the league mvp. and dirk was clearly the mvp of that series.....not nash. I acknowledge that it would of been more difficult for the mavs if amare was there. but you can't debate something that didn't happen. what you can say is that the mavs were clearly the superior team that season with amare being injured. and BTW....dirk went down with a season ending knee injury in the WCF vs. the spurs back when nash was on the team. the mavs lost....probably would of lost anyway. it happens.......it doesn't take anything away from the other team that won. I guess that year is proof that if you take amare from nash or nash from amare....the suns aren't legit NBA title contenders. maybe they should of been winning CO MVP.

 

[Lorenzo]

I'll say it once again about nash. if you all have read my posts in the past this is a redundant post. He is my favorite PG in the league...besides jason kidd now sorry. he has been the best offensive pg from a consistency standpoint in the league now for about 7 years(chris paul and d. williams have now joined him). eventhough in dallas he never got the credit he deserved. Do you all realize that steve francis....yes I said francis.....was starting in the all star game over nash then? he never was considered the best PG then because he never had the overall talent around him that he does now. he had dirk....and a mike finley 3 point specialist. that's about where it ended. and those guys were winning 55-60 games. now he plays with much better talent overall and is getting the credit that he is due. are the suns the deepest team in the league? no they aren't, but the guys they play are solid and very talented especially offensively. I've never said dirk is better than nash. I've said they are equal in their accomplishments.......

It started with this equal analogy I made.....if dirk is soft nash is soft. because both have been labled soft physically. despite the fact that they both take heavy contact game to game and play through rough injuries. I saw nash one time take a malone elbow to the grill that still gives me goosebumps. and i stillstrongly dislike malone for that play.....at least he got caught an ejected for it. anyway nash played through it....i don't know how. I would of been out cold. I saw dirk get his teeth knocked out in a playoff game vs. the spurs....stayed in the game and still scored 40+ pts. now he's playing with a high ankle sprain that takes normal people 6 weeks to recover? I wish the two could play together now....with dirk much improved. but in a way nash leaving forced dirk to take his game to another level. they are both labled or have been labled soft. neither guy comes close to it IMO.