Will the Nuggets or the Magic get fair calls?

[Mulli]

The refs caused Denver to miss 12 free throws.

You know they did. An no doubt Stern paid Carter to toss the ball to Ariza for the clutch TO.

Yep.

 

[pokerface]

If refs in the NBA are considered the worst in all of sports its mostly do to the rules and the amount of calls per game. More calls mean more chances for there to be a bad calls. Adding to that is the speed of the game which can create more errors. I think NBA refs have a harder job than refs in other sports.


The question isn't whether Stern will fix a series so it will be a Lakers/Cavs finals but can these two teams meet up without it being called a fix. Also, why would Stern risk a national scandal so two particular teams can meet up...thats rediculous. The potential downside to something like that far outweighs the benefits.

 

[BC867]

The question isn't whether Stern will fix a series so it will be a Lakers/Cavs finals but can these two teams meet up without it being called a fix. Also, why would Stern risk a national scandal so two particular teams can meet up...thats rediculous. The potential downside to something like that far outweighs the benefits.

'Hasn't stopped him before. He lived through the dirty ref episode. And the fixed draft lottery rumors. And punishing Amare for coming onto the court when Nash was body slammed, but not Duncan when he did it.

Why would he risk criticism? Because he's done it before and came out more powerful than ever.

 

[pokerface]

'Hasn't stopped him before. He lived through the dirty ref episode. And the fixed draft lottery rumors. And punishing Amare for coming onto the court when Nash was body slammed, but not Duncan when he did it.

Why would he risk criticism? Because he's done it before and came out more powerful than ever.

Duncan was in arms length of his bench area...Amare wandered off.


Besides that, did Stern make Amare leave the bench? If Stern is so obviously anti Suns (as some of you think) why give him that kind of ammunition?

 

[Mulli]

Jeff Van Gundy made an interesting point:

Why did Amare get suspended for the same amount of time for leaving a bench area in response to what was happening on the court that someone like Fisher got when he intentionally nailed one of the Rockets?

And why not have suspensions that last for parts of games?

Van Gundy comes up with good stuff sometimes.

 

[pokerface]

Jeff Van Gundy made an interesting point:

Why did Amare get suspended for the same amount of time for leaving a bench area in response to what was happening on the court that someone like Fisher got when he intentionally nailed one of the Rockets?

And why not have suspensions that last for parts of games?

Van Gundy comes up with good stuff sometimes.

Don't the owners of the teams make the rules by a vote?

 

[Mulli]

Don't the owners of the teams make the rules by a vote?

Not sure. JVG was just saying that they now have a bunch of rules that only give the appearance of discipline, when they really don't have any. He said this is sports, why can't we look at things on a case by case basis on judge accordingly?

 

[pokerface]

Not sure. JVG was just saying that they now have a bunch of rules that only give the appearance of discipline, when they really don't have any. He said this is sports, why can't we look at things on a case by case basis on judge accordingly?

If it goes case by case then it opens up more scrutiny as to why one player get more/less punishment than another. Fans would then claim bias...more than they do now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If it goes case by case then it opens up more scrutiny as to why one player get more/less punishment than another. Fans would then claim bias...more than they do now.

Which is why I brought this up.

I believe that the temptation to influence the outcome of these games will be very high (but could also be unnecessary).

I really hope we see an entire series last night where the calls are relatively even.

 

[pokerface]

Just curious,


Some claim Stern somehow rigs games but no one ever says how. How would he go about it without ever getting caught? Plus, what would his motivations be? Ratings doesn't seem like nearly a good enough reason to take that kind of chance. Also, why would he favor the Spurs...arn't they a small market team?

 

[Cheesewater]

Just curious,


Some claim Stern somehow rigs games but no one ever says how. How would he go about it without ever getting caught? Plus, what would his motivations be? Ratings doesn't seem like nearly a good enough reason to take that kind of chance. Also, why would he favor the Spurs...arn't they a small market team?

"The three basic human emotions are greed, fear, and greed." (Larry Gelbart/Sid Dorfman)

If a man can kill people (or commit people to kill or be killed) for money, if a man can steal from the faithful in the name of their god, how is it inconceivable that greed can cause a man to alter the outcomes of sporting events? Aside from personal monetary gain, a man might also be driven by power to arrange such a scenario. David Stern strikes me as the kind of man to whom power is important. I see him as wanting to be known as The Great Commissioner, who presided over the Golden Age of basketball and it's worldwide growth ($$$). When a man gets into power like that, the collateral damages, such as the death of integrity, become reasonable losses.

Who is to say Stern won't get caught? I can think of ways in which the Donaghy scandal, which has blown over already, could be part of Stern's plan to control the league. If you didn't want to get caught being a criminal, set up the known criminals to take the blame.

Just because YOU wouldn't do it, doesn't mean David Stern wouldn't.

 

[boisesuns]

I personally believe that every questionable call is going against Denver and Orlando.

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[Darth Llama]

"The three basic human emotions are greed, fear, and greed." (Larry Gelbart/Sid Dorfman)

If a man can kill people (or commit people to kill or be killed) for money, if a man can steal from the faithful in the name of their god, how is it inconceivable that greed can cause a man to alter the outcomes of sporting events? Aside from personal monetary gain, a man might also be driven by power to arrange such a scenario. David Stern strikes me as the kind of man to whom power is important. I see him as wanting to be known as The Great Commissioner, who presided over the Golden Age of basketball and it's worldwide growth ($$$). When a man gets into power like that, the collateral damages, such as the death of integrity, become reasonable losses.

Who is to say Stern won't get caught? I can think of ways in which the Donaghy scandal, which has blown over already, could be part of Stern's plan to control the league. If you didn't want to get caught being a criminal, set up the known criminals to take the blame.

Just because YOU wouldn't do it, doesn't mean David Stern wouldn't.

The problem with this logic is that you are using an extreme case as an example of the norm. There are people that would do the things you mention, just as there are people that would charge into a burning building to save a stranger, but neither of those people are accurate examples of the majority of society. David Stern has a prestigious job in a high level position and has a lot to risk by doing the things you accuse him of. Is David Sterns salary dependent on revenue for the year? The answer is no, it's not. Sure it looks good for Stern if if the NBA does well and thrives in the ratings, but to honestly believe that he risks not only his own job and reputation, but the reputation of the entire National Basketball league by holding back door meetings to rig games is absolutely absurd. It would require total corruption at just about every level within the league for David Stern to be able to manipulate game outcomes from his office. The theory is completely ridiculous and is only believed by fans looking for excuses for their teams. Does the NBA have certain teams they want to see in the finals? Sure they do. Do they actively cheat to make it happen? of course not.. that's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Cheesewater]

The problem with this logic is that you are using an extreme case as an example of the norm. There are people that would do the things you mention, just as there are people that would charge into a burning building to save a stranger, but neither of those people are accurate examples of the majority of society. David Stern has a prestigious job in a high level position and has a lot to risk by doing the things you accuse him of. Is David Sterns salary dependent on revenue for the year? The answer is no, it's not. Sure it looks good for Stern if if the NBA does well and thrives in the ratings, but to honestly believe that he risks not only his own job and reputation, but the reputation of the entire National Basketball league by holding back door meetings to rig games is absolutely absurd. It would require total corruption at just about every level within the league for David Stern to be able to manipulate game outcomes from his office. The theory is completely ridiculous and is only believed by fans looking for excuses for their teams. Does the NBA have certain teams they want to see in the finals? Sure they do. Do they actively cheat to make it happen? of course not.. that's absolutely ridiculous.

No.

I was giving examples of things people have done for money so that the practice of manipulating outcomes in a professional sports league doesn't seem so far-fetched. You are naive if you think there aren't people in power willing to arrange all kinds of risky behavior to get richer or to obtain more power. The theory is NOT completely ridiculous. I don't think David Stern rigs games for his own personal financial gain. I would not be surprised, however, to find that Stern has emphasized the importance of certain players and teams to succeed to officials for what he believes is "the good of the sport and of the league". Having it come to light that an on-court official was affecting the outcomes of games on Stern's watch suggests to me that either Stern is an incompetent commissioner or an unethical crook...or both. Look how quickly we forgot the Donagy deal. Look how unscathed Stern has emerged. Powerful people can get away with quite a bit.

If the Donaghy debacle didn't wake you up to the possibility of farther reaching corruption within the NBA, I think you are living under a rock.

You think setting an agenda for who wins and who gets tv time is far fetched. But look at all the improbable schemes committed throughout history and for things much more important than the success of the National Basketball Association.

 

[pokerface]

"The three basic human emotions are greed, fear, and greed." (Larry Gelbart/Sid Dorfman)


Who is to say Stern won't get caught? I can think of ways in which the Donaghy scandal, which has blown over already, could be part of Stern's plan to control the league. If you didn't want to get caught being a criminal, set up the known criminals to take the blame.

One problem with your theory...Donaghy would have thrown Stern to the wolves to save his own skin. No ref has ever turned on Stern...fired or otherwise. If Stern is so controlling and so smart that a ref would never turn on him then what hope is there for your theories?


Plus why do you watch the Suns and the NBA if its rigged? Doesnt that come back on you? You might as well watch the WWF...or do you??

 

[Darth Llama]

No.

I was giving examples of things people have done for money so that the practice of manipulating outcomes in a professional sports league doesn't seem so far-fetched. You are naive if you think there aren't people in power willing to arrange all kinds of risky behavior to get richer or to obtain more power. The theory is NOT completely ridiculous. I don't think David Stern rigs games for his own personal financial gain. I would not be surprised, however, to find that Stern has emphasized the importance of certain players and teams to succeed to officials for what he believes is "the good of the sport and of the league". Having it come to light that an on-court official was affecting the outcomes of games on Stern's watch suggests to me that either Stern is an incompetent commissioner or an unethical crook...or both. Look how quickly we forgot the Donagy deal. Look how unscathed Stern has emerged. Powerful people can get away with quite a bit.

If the Donaghy debacle didn't wake you up to the possibility of farther reaching corruption within the NBA, I think you are living under a rock.

You think setting an agenda for who wins and who gets tv time is far fetched. But look at all the improbable schemes committed throughout history and for things much more important than the success of the National Basketball Association.

Give me a break, so every time an employee breaks a rule the boss is in on it? So if someone at your work is stealing money, his boss was in on it as well? What Donaghy did was stupid and he got caught for it. How was Stern supposed to know the guy was placing bets? Was he in on that too? Call me nieve if it makes you feel better, but you're the one inventing phantom conspiracies based on nothing more then the fact that the Phoenix Suns haven't won a championship. It's the same thing every time with some of you people, everything is a conspiracy and you take anything you can find to try and prove it. Donaghy broke the rules and he broke the law, he went to jail. That type of thing happens all the time, but they don't blame the CEO of the company. It was more pronounced with Donaghy because he was in a position that drew media interest, but to blame Stern for it and using that to prove your silly conspiracy theory is ridiculous and you know it. If I decide to steal from my company, they're going to throw ME in jail, my boss isn't going to get fired for it and it doesn't prove any misconduct on his part. I'm sure there will be harsher regulations on NBA refs now, but the incident with a ref placing bets hardly does anything to prove that Stern is manipulating outcomes of games. Nice try.

 

[pokerface]

If the Donaghy debacle didn't wake you up to the possibility of farther reaching corruption within the NBA, I think you are living under a rock.

And what did Donaghy prove besides that he personally was corrupt? What ties is that to Stern?

You think setting an agenda for who wins and who gets tv time is far fetched. But look at all the improbable schemes committed throughout history and for things much more important than the success of the National Basketball Association.

Yes I do think its far fetched to think a sitting NBA commissoner would risk jail and national shame to fix some games for ratings sake.

 

[pokerface]

Give me a break, so every time an employee breaks a rule the boss is in on it? So if someone at your work is stealing money, his boss was in on it as well? What Donaghy did was stupid and he got caught for it. How was Stern supposed to know the guy was placing bets? Was he in on that too? Call me nieve if it makes you feel better, but you're the one inventing phantom conspiracies based on nothing more then the fact that the Phoenix Suns haven't won a championship. It's the same thing every time with some of you people, everything is a conspiracy and you take anything you can find to try and prove it. Donaghy broke the rules and he broke the law, he went to jail. That type of thing happens all the time, but they don't blame the CEO of the company. It was more pronounced with Donaghy because he was in a position that drew media interest, but to blame Stern for it and using that to prove your silly conspiracy theory is ridiculous and you know it. If I decide to steal from my company, they're going to throw ME in jail, my boss isn't going to get fired for it and it doesn't prove any misconduct on his part. I'm sure there will be harsher regulations on NBA refs now, but the incident with a ref placing bets hardly does anything to prove that Stern is manipulating outcomes of games. Nice try.

I wish I wrote this post...well done sir!

 

[Errntknght]

If everyone who follows the NBA can figure out who Stern would like to have in the finals, wouldn't you guess the refs could figure it out, too? Not to mention the fact that the refs themselves have a vested interest in the league revenue being maximized. To top it off, they have lots of practice giving the stars an edge.

 

[Darth Llama]

If everyone who follows the NBA can figure out who Stern would like to have in the finals, wouldn't you guess the refs could figure it out, too? Not to mention the fact that the refs themselves have a vested interest in the league revenue being maximized. To top it off, they have lots of practice giving the stars an edge.

Oh, so now the officials are fixing games on what they assume that Stern wants? Fine, lets just say that's the case, is that Sterns fault if refs are making those type of assumptions?

 

[pokerface]

If everyone who follows the NBA can figure out who Stern would like to have in the finals, wouldn't you guess the refs could figure it out, too? Not to mention the fact that the refs themselves have a vested interest in the league revenue being maximized. To top it off, they have lots of practice giving the stars an edge.

Yeah I'm sure the refs are going to rig games beacuse they think Stern might want that....pffft.


Far as stars getting having an edge on close calls....shouldn't they? If a call can go one way or the other why give it to some nobody player who hasnt proved himself? Are the rookies supposed to get the calls or what? Plus besides that...almost every team has a star that gets calls...that doesnt prove a bias towards one team necessarily.

 

[BC867]

Oh, so now the officials are fixing games on what they assume that Stern wants? Fine, lets just say that's the case, is that Sterns fault if refs are making those type of assumptions?

Fix, no. Lean, probably.

What's good for the NBA is good for its personnel.

A LeBron/Coby finals is good for the NBA.

The refs don't have to assume it. They know it.

 

[Mulli]

Coby?

 

[mojorizen7]

Coby?

Coby? >>> Cobbler? >>> Crap?

 

[Cheesewater]

One problem with your theory...Donaghy would have thrown Stern to the wolves to save his own skin. No ref has ever turned on Stern...fired or otherwise. If Stern is so controlling and so smart that a ref would never turn on him then what hope is there for your theories?

I don't think Donaghy ever had direct contact with Stern. Certainly it would be planned to prevent Stern from being implicated. There are all kinds of ways to accomplish fixing games without the hatchet man knowing who's behind the plan. Stern has an "associate" meet with the head of officials and break down what teams and individuals are going to be really good that year. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Plus why do you watch the Suns and the NBA if its rigged? Doesnt that come back on you? You might as well watch the WWF...or do you??

I'm hoping Stern someday wants my team to win. Plus, I never said I thought the NBA was rigged.