Will the Nuggets or the Magic get fair calls?

[Cheesewater]

Give me a break, so every time an employee breaks a rule the boss is in on it? So if someone at your work is stealing money, his boss was in on it as well?

No. Where did I say that? Where do you get "every time" from my post?

What Donaghy did was stupid and he got caught for it. How was Stern supposed to know the guy was placing bets? Was he in on that too?

Donaghy didn't act alone. I'm telling you that it is not out of the realm of possibility that Stern told the right person which teams and individuals should win that year, and that guy found the right officials to help. Ones who are already corrupt or have shown the propensity for corruption. It doesn't even have to be that nefarious.

Call me nieve if it makes you feel better, but you're the one inventing phantom conspiracies based on nothing more then the fact that the Phoenix Suns haven't won a championship. It's the same thing every time with some of you people, everything is a conspiracy and you take anything you can find to try and prove it.

It has nothing to do with me being a Suns fan. I have seen many other teams, not just the Suns, get the short end of the fishy stick.

Donaghy broke the rules and he broke the law, he went to jail. That type of thing happens all the time, but they don't blame the CEO of the company.

Have you been paying attention to the news lately? It's the CEO's that are the criminals.

It was more pronounced with Donaghy because he was in a position that drew media interest, but to blame Stern for it and using that to prove your silly conspiracy theory is ridiculous and you know it. If I decide to steal from my company, they're going to throw ME in jail, my boss isn't going to get fired for it and it doesn't prove any misconduct on his part. I'm sure there will be harsher regulations on NBA refs now, but the incident with a ref placing bets hardly does anything to prove that Stern is manipulating outcomes of games. Nice try.

The world is a much more complicated place than you think. If you can't see the deeper possibilities in a given situation, backed by independent observation, you ARE naive.

 

[Cheesewater]

And what did Donaghy prove besides that he personally was corrupt? What ties is that to Stern?

Yes I do think its far fetched to think a sitting NBA commissoner would risk jail and national shame to fix some games for ratings sake.

I didn't say Donaghy "proved" anything. I am trying to get you to see that if one (and I remember there being reports of more) official can be corrupt for personal gain, it is possible that many officials can be swayed to affect the outcomes of games simply to keep their jobs. As we've seen by how Stern has emerged unaccountable from the Donaghy disaster, Stern can get away with this kind of control.

There is more to it than "ratings". Do you have any idea how large and multi-faceted the NBA is? Money comes from all kinds of revenue streams. And don't forget the power. Do you doubt that Stern comes off sometimes as a power hungry, control-freak with a Napoleonic complex? I saw him talk down to Lisa Salters just the other day on national television.

The ways in which the league can be manipulated by Stern are subtle enough that I believe Stern could get away with it. Even if he were caught or implicated, it wouldn't be enough for him to go to jail. He should be out of a job RIGHT NOW for his previous mishandling and since he isn't, I'll bet he feels pretty secure.

 

[cobbler]

Not sure. JVG was just saying that they now have a bunch of rules that only give the appearance of discipline, when they really don't have any. He said this is sports, why can't we look at things on a case by case basis on judge accordingly?

Are you kidding? If you do that.... all the conspiricy nutcases would just off even more about how the league favored one guy or team over the other on a similar foul.

I am still amazed at all you sheep who think the league is rigged and yet still watch. Unbelievable!

 

[Cheesewater]

I am still amazed at all you sheep who think the league is rigged and yet still watch. Unbelievable!

I'm still amazed at all you sheep who think the NBA is unicorns and rainbows and don't believe there is corruption. Unbelievable!

 

[cobbler]

I'm still amazed at all you sheep who think the NBA is unicorns and rainbows and don't believe there is corruption. Unbelievable!

Unicorns and rainbows? There are mistakes made. I don't think anyone is saying the league is fool proof. We are all human. But to sit here year after year and gripe about corruption and whine about how the league has got some vendetta against your team and yet come back year after year for more... well... that's just lame.

 

[BC867]

Coby?

Oops. You'll notice I posted it at 06:02 AM (before I headed out the door to go to work).

Damn economy. I'm 68 and have to go to a full-time job at 6:15 AM.

My co-workers tell me I don't look, sound or act 68. I tell them, but yeah, that's the age of the arthritis in my neck and back.

Anyway, my apologies to Kobe and to the man who named him, his dad Joe "Jellybean" Bryant. Until Michael Cooper replaced him on April 4, 2007, Joe was the Head Coach of the WNBA's Los Angeles Sparks.

"Jellybean", by the way, is 13 years younger than my arthritis and I am.

 

[Cheesewater]

Unicorns and rainbows? There are mistakes made. I don't think anyone is saying the league is fool proof. We are all human. But to sit here year after year and gripe about corruption and whine about how the league has got some vendetta against your team and yet come back year after year for more... well... that's just lame.

If you are going to take part in this discussion with me, you'd better stick to the facts. I don't sit here year after year and gripe about a vendetta. If you can't recognize the corruption and the possibility of more corruption, which is all I am writing about, you are a fool.

As far as being human and making mistakes, I'm not talking about bad officiating here.

 

[Darth Llama]

And Denver ties the series on a bad call in their favor. They commited a lane violation on the jump ball right in front of the ref and it was ignored. That should have been Laker ball, but instead, Denver gets the ball and the win.

Yeah, I would say they're going to get "fair calls." This conspiracy theory is a load of bull ****.

 

[Cheesewater]

And Denver ties the series on a bad call in their favor. They commited a lane violation on the jump ball right in front of the ref and it was ignored. That should have been Laker ball, but instead, Denver gets the ball and the win.

Yeah, I would say they're going to get "fair calls." This conspiracy theory is a load of bull ****.

Nene should have been on that jump ball, not Billups. That was a call in Lakers favor.

 

[cobbler]

Nene should have been on that jump ball, not Billups. That was a call in Lakers favor.

Talk about sticking to the facts. The facts are that Billips tied gasol up first then Nene came in. The jump goes to the first. Get real.

And if you feel anyone who doesnt believe their is corruption in the NBA is stupid then put up some facts that ACTUALLY PROVE it! And we are not talking refs calls here as you said.

 

[Cheesewater]

Talk about sticking to the facts. The facts are that Billips tied gasol up first then Nene came in. The jump goes to the first. Get real.

Wrong. Take off your Laker goggles.

And if you feel anyone who doesnt believe their is corruption in the NBA is stupid then put up some facts that ACTUALLY PROVE it! And we are not talking refs calls here as you said.

I never used the word "stupid." The facts are that Tim Donaghy was caught being corrupt. It was in all the papers. You want some links?

 

[cobbler]

Wrong. Take off your Laker goggles.



I never used the word "stupid." The facts are that Tim Donaghy was caught being corrupt. It was in all the papers. You want some links?

Has nothing to do with Laker goggles. Billups had the ball first. Regardless, for the sake of argument lets say Nene should have been in the jump. Smith ran through the lane. It was obvious and for you to say it doesnt matter because someone else should have been jumping is just illogical.

My bad, you said fool rather than stupid. Meaning was the same.

So one ref bets on games and the league is corrupt? No. Donaghy was corrupt. If you can show me PROOF where the league was involved where Donaghy was involved, then yes, I would like some links.

Donaghy didn't act alone. I'm telling you that it is not out of the realm of possibility that Stern told the right person which teams and individuals should win that year, and that guy found the right officials to help.

You state matter of factly... that he didn't act alone... then say it's possible Stern influenced him and others.

Show me the proof.

 

[cly2tw]

Bavetta or whoever that old small ref's name was calling it in Lakers' favor late in the game with the jump ball and Melo and Nene's last fouls on Gasol. Missed calls in favor of Denver have been of freak nature like the out-of-bound by Billups last game and Smith jumpball violation, which are rare and hard to catch. But, all in all, it's more balanced than I'd have thought. Not really much to complain.

 

[cobbler]

Bavetta or whoever that old small ref's name was calling it in Lakers' favor late in the game with the jump ball and Melo and Nene's last fouls on Gasol. Missed calls in favor of Denver have been of freak nature like the out-of-bound by Billups last game and Smith jumpball violation, which are rare and hard to catch. But, all in all, it's more balanced than I'd have thought. Not really much to complain.

I have no complaints with the calls in the 2 games. A few bad ones both ways. Certainly fair. Absolutely not the huge favoritism so many here predicted for the Lakers on the Lakers home court.

 

[Cheesewater]

Has nothing to do with Laker goggles. Billups had the ball first. Regardless, for the sake of argument lets say Nene should have been in the jump. Smith ran through the lane. It was obvious and for you to say it doesnt matter because someone else should have been jumping is just illogical.

If the right person had been jumping, any number of subsequent things could have happened, including Smith not violating the circle. You could make this argument with ALL calls, but in this case, since the jump was the direct result of a missed call, it reduces the effect of the Smith violation.

My bad, you said fool rather than stupid. Meaning was the same.

No the meaning is not the same.

So one ref bets on games and the league is corrupt? No. Donaghy was corrupt. If you can show me PROOF where the league was involved where Donaghy was involved, then yes, I would like some links.

You state matter of factly... that he didn't act alone... then say it's possible Stern influenced him and others.

Show me the proof.

Donaghy had accomplices. People to whom he provided information. His bookie. Other officials he called. He also indicated that there were other officials involved. I read the NBA lawyer's refutation and it is just as sketchy as Donaghy.

I am merely illustrating the possibility of further corruption in the NBA. I never intimated knowledge of specific crimes.

Tell me you find it beyond possibility that David Stern could, however subtly and through any type and/or number of intermediaries, dictate what teams and which players to promote via officiating.

 

[D-Dogg]

Hollinger called out the Suns fans for being paranoid about refs and suspensions in the league as the hot button issue that can make them lose all logic and reason.

I hate to say it, but damn if this thread doesn't back up Hollinger.

PER is still a stupid stat, IMO.

 

[Cheesewater]

Hollinger called out the Suns fans for being paranoid about refs and suspensions in the league as the hot button issue that can make them lose all logic and reason.

I hate to say it, but damn if this thread doesn't back up Hollinger.

PER is still a stupid stat, IMO.

Really? If you are referring to me, show me where I've lost all logic and reason.

 

[D-Dogg]

Really? If you are referring to me, show me where I've lost all logic and reason.

Man...this is too easy.

 

[Cheesewater]

Man...this is too easy.

Apparently not. Here's what I wrote on that page:

"It's not about media markets. It's because people want to see LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Carmelo Anthony in the conference finals. Those individuals sell advertising."

Or did you just make a mistake?

 

[D-Dogg]

Come on, that was funny...that was a link to a THREAD, not any specific post.

:jetsoverhead:

 

[pokerface]

Hey Cheesewhiz,

Of course anything is possible but you never are going to convince the majority of fans out there that Stern is advancing particular teams unfairly. Most people are going to believe in liklihoods...not hypothetical longshots. For Stern to make particular teams advance (especially every year as conspiracy fans think) that would involve too many refs and too many mouths to keep shut. No ref has ever come out against Stern claiming he tried to influence...or any Stern employee (directly under him) if you want to go down that road (which you have). Stern is in a prestigous positon....Its almost like saying a Supreme Court Justice is on the take for crying out loud. You better come up with more than "it could happen" or "its possible" to get any credibility on this.

 

[elindholm]

Not to mention the fact that the refs themselves have a vested interest in the league revenue being maximized. To top it off, they have lots of practice giving the stars an edge.

Yes, thank you -- that's a pithier way of rephrasing what I have been saying for years. Maybe some of your readers will finally get it, since most of mine never have.

 

[elindholm]

Hollinger called out the Suns fans for being paranoid about refs and suspensions in the league as the hot button issue that can make them lose all logic and reason.

Then how come Bill Simmons says the same thing? He's a Celtics fan, so it's not as though he's short of titles to crow about. Could it be -- gasp -- that a clear mind sees how corrupt the NBA is whether -- egad! -- whether his team has won titles or not??? Holy cow, is that possible?

 

[cobbler]

It's possible Stern was was abandoned as a child and raised by coyote's in the Phoenix desert and therfore instructs the leagues office and refs to do everything in their power to make the existence of anything Phoenix miserable. But until you can PROVE it, its just more conjecture like all the other NBA conspiricy BS.

If Cheesy or anyone else can PROVE to me the league is rigged I will post in large bold letters that i was a fool to think otherwise. Unlike all you who do whine about this though, I would then cease to support the league with my time and/or money. Personally, I could not bring myself to watch a sports league that i felt was mocking and making a fool out of me. That's just outright demeaning.

Now excuse me, I'm off to the grassy knoll to read my books on the apollo cover ups!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Are you kidding? If you do that.... all the conspiricy nutcases would just off even more about how the league favored one guy or team over the other on a similar foul.

I am still amazed at all you sheep who think the league is rigged and yet still watch. Unbelievable!

Your time on this board has come to an end. See you in a month.