Will the Suns make the playoffs this season?

[BC867]

And, if I remember right, Vinsanity started off OK offensively in some games, but was lucky to score three points in 2nd halves whether he did or not.

Stats don't beat opponents. Dependability throughout the game gives you a chance.

 

[Mainstreet]

And, if I remember right, Vinsanity started off OK offensively in some games, but was lucky to score three points in 2nd halves whether he did or not.

Stats don't beat opponents. Dependability throughout the game gives you a chance.

The Suns seemingly could never figure out that once VC went cold after the first half that was pretty much it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Too bad that factual data and statistics prove all your points wrong.

The Suns as a team played much better with Carter in the lineup compared to Dudley and the Suns did horrible when Dowdell got playing time.

Here is also a fact. The Suns were worse defensively with Carter on the the floor than Dudley. Dudley was active while Carter seemed like he gave up on a bunch of plays either because he was too slow or lazy. In the last 5 minutes of close game with Carter in the Suns won 33% of the time and netted almost 21.9 point less in those games. With Dudley in crunch time the Suns netted only 12.2 less per game and won 38% of those games.

Neither is impressive but the Suns were better in close games with Dudley in there defensively.

Offensively, the Dudley in crunch time had an effective FG% of 55%. Carter's was 41%. Overall Carter shot 42% to Jared's 47%.

That tells me that Carter didn't score when it counted. He definitely was not good in crunch time. If you remember correctly, Carter often found himself on the bench at the end of games. So, depending on your definition of better, I would say it's arguable if the Suns were a better team with Carter in there unless your only criteria is outscoring the opposing team.

There a ton of examples of teams in almost every sport that put up a ton of points but didn't have good records and they sucked. Stats don't tell the entire story and you know it.

 

[jagu]

There a ton of examples of teams in almost every sport that put up a ton of points but didn't have good records and they sucked. Stats don't tell the entire story and you know it.

If stats mattered, the Miami Heat probably would be champions. Last year I picked Dallas to win and I didn't even base it on stats. If your team has defense, intelligence, talent, heart, and a coach who does smart things in crunch time situations... you have a great shot of winning.

 

[jbeecham]

My vote is "No" simply because of the brutal schedule...

I'm not impressed with our signings of Shannon Brown or Sebastian Telfair. I'm disappointed that Pietrus failed his physical and it cancelled our trade to dump him. It looks like the Suns have a plan to free up cap-space for next offseason, but I don't know if there will be anyone of quality left to sign... nevermind 2 max quality guys. It's a sad time to be a Suns fan, but maybe some kind of miracle can happen.

 

[slinslin]

There a ton of examples of teams in almost every sport that put up a ton of points but didn't have good records and they sucked. Stats don't tell the entire story and you know it.

You still do not get what advanced stats are..

 

[Covert Rain]

You still do not get what advanced stats are..

Actually I thinks its you that does not. Analysis is my major. The purpose of advanced statistics is to increase accuracy of conclusions by defining the complex relationship between analysis of those statistics and the outcome of events related to those statistics. In this case it would be the relationship between outcome of games, reality of events that occurred on the floor and the related statistics.

You are missing the point that everyone is making. You said:

"The Suns as a team played much better with Carter in the lineup compared to Dudley" and "Too bad that factual data and statistics prove all your points wrong."

Your statements are only partially factual and there is evidence to the contrary.

 

[sunsfan88]

Slinslin you can't tell me you thought VC helped our team MORE THAN JD!

 

[slinslin]

Suns most-used lineups
Lineup GP MIN Pace OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Lopez 30 363 100.3 108.3 105.1 +3.3 +38
Nash, Dudley, Hill, Frye, Gortat 33 311 95.0 111.0 105.7 +5.3 +41
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Gortat 30 197 94.0 111.2 96.6 +14.6 +50

Suns efficiency, before and after trade
Timeframe W L Win% Pace Rank OffRtg Rank DefRtg Rank NetRtg Rank
Before trade 12 13 .480 97.4 6 109.4 2 110.0 30 -0.7 17
After trade 28 29 .491 96.5 9 106.0 13 106.2 21 -0.2 16

Figure it out yourself.

 

[dodie53]

no.
suns will trade hill and nash this season

 

[Covert Rain]

Suns most-used lineups
Lineup GP MIN Pace OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Lopez 30 363 100.3 108.3 105.1 +3.3 +38
Nash, Dudley, Hill, Frye, Gortat 33 311 95.0 111.0 105.7 +5.3 +41
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Gortat 30 197 94.0 111.2 96.6 +14.6 +50

Suns efficiency, before and after trade
Timeframe W L Win% Pace Rank OffRtg Rank DefRtg Rank NetRtg Rank
Before trade 12 13 .480 97.4 6 109.4 2 110.0 30 -0.7 17
After trade 28 29 .491 96.5 9 106.0 13 106.2 21 -0.2 16

Figure it out yourself.

Don't you find it curious that with Dudley on the Court, his player time Net 48 was better, Assist per 48 was better, Defensive rebounding was better, TO were better, Opposing PER at the SG position was better, overall offensive and defensive PER at the SG position were better with Dudley in there?

Seriously Slin....doesn't that tell you something else is at play besides who is playing the SG position?

There is a reason Carter was benched.

Statistics are not telling the entire story. Statistics are a factor in determining how a team performs. They are not the ONLY factor. Playing guys out of position, having an offensive minded scheme that favors offensive guys and having a scheme predicated on outscoring opponents are all part of "Advanced Statistical" analysis.

Come on Slin...even you are not that ridiculous.

 

[Ninjafish]

Suns most-used lineups
Lineup GP MIN Pace OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Lopez 30 363 100.3 108.3 105.1 +3.3 +38
Nash, Dudley, Hill, Frye, Gortat 33 311 95.0 111.0 105.7 +5.3 +41
Nash, Carter, Hill, Frye, Gortat 30 197 94.0 111.2 96.6 +14.6 +50

Suns efficiency, before and after trade
Timeframe W L Win% Pace Rank OffRtg Rank DefRtg Rank NetRtg Rank
Before trade 12 13 .480 97.4 6 109.4 2 110.0 30 -0.7 17
After trade 28 29 .491 96.5 9 106.0 13 106.2 21 -0.2 16

Figure it out yourself.

An intelligent person that watched the NBA last season would look at these stats and come to the conclusion that "Wow, these stats must be f'n meaningless in determining a player's worth by themselves. There must be many more variables at play here." You on the other hand look at these stats and determine that Vince Carter was one of our best players. That's funny.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Don't you find it curious that with Dudley on the Court, his player time Net 48 was better, Assist per 48 was better, Defensive rebounding was better, TO were better, Opposing PER at the SG position was better, overall offensive and defensive PER at the SG position were better with Dudley in there?

Seriously Slin....doesn't that tell you something else is at play besides who is playing the SG position?

There is a reason Carter was benched.

Statistics are not telling the entire story. Statistics are a factor in determining how a team performs. They are not the ONLY factor. Playing guys out of position, having an offensive minded scheme that favors offensive guys and having a scheme predicated on outscoring opponents are all part of "Advanced Statistical" analysis.

Come on Slin...even you are not that ridiculous.

Frye talked after the first practice about how the chemistry and athleticism is so much better already. The change is the subtraction of Vince Carter and addition of Telfair and Brown.

I think Dallas will be worse just because they have Carter.