With the 13th pick, the Phoenix Suns select...

[SirStefan32]

Agreed about Sabonis. He would be an awesome pick at #13.

 

[slinslin]

Skal has a super high floor.

Look at him, the way he shoots its pure for a 7 foot guy. How many 7 footers do you know with that good looking shot? He gets good lift on his shots, good arc.. I was super high on Turner last year, I think Skal is every bit as good a prospect and probably more because he moves better. People were telling me about how Myles Turner can't run, how he did not put up huge numbers for a weak Texas team, how he is lost on the floor and then what happened?
Calipari was unable to use Skal properly. Cal is a great recruiter but not a great coach imo. You get the guy who is rated #1 in the class and fail to utilize his strengths? That is as much on coach as on Skal.

Even if he does never develop great game sense he will be a tremendously long PF that can shoot the ball and block shots.

I think his floor is Channing Frye unless he gets injured. The only question is how long it will take Skal to reach the floor and how much he can go beyond that. He is much more athletic than Frye so he should be a plus defender.

 

[3rdside]

Looking good is one thing, delivering is another; he can't shoot free throws (.661%), barely shot a single 3pt in college (2 in total it looks like) and in the video you linked above he makes what, 3 3ptrs in a row?

Hardly sold.




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[3rdside]

I agree. Dwight Howard has been a very good rebounder over his career (until recent injuries) and has the (very) broad shoulders/ narrow hips and legs build.

Checked out the photos and I agree about Howard's shape; massive shoulders and skinny legs.


He does have half an inch in height, over 3 inches of wingspan and 30 pounds on him so there is that to consider, and amare had to guard bigger guys than him, like Howard, meaning he was usually at a size disadvantage.

I think I can concede that a high centre of gravity is not THE driving force behind rebounds - I don't think i was saying that in the first place anyway - but it definitely is A driving force.

http://www.layups.com/8-attributes-of-a-good-rebounder/

Point 2 in the link (hardly rocket science I realise but..) the higher the centre of gravity, the more easily you topple.




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[Covert Rain]

I hate when people say he has the physical makeup to rebound. He should be able to do it. If the guy didn't do it well in college it's usually fools gold to hope it translates in the NBA. Physical make up alone doesn't guarantee a good rebounder. Instincts, mental toughness, anticipation and court awareness are a big part of it as well.

Plenty of example of guys who look like they should be able to grab every rebound just can't. Other examples pointed out above where guys you would think would get pushed away from every single rebound simply don't and do well.

I just think if you want a rebounding guy....he had to look good in college doing it. I very rarely see guys who struggle with rebounds (i.e. potential rebounders) ever get there at the next level.

 

[elindholm]

Plenty things go into rebounding - timing, hops, anticipation, effort, length and centre of gravity.

...I had to resort to going round the guy or hope the ball would pop up high enough in my direction to try and grab the rebound.

Since you didn't mention boxing out as a rebounding skill, is it possible you weren't taught to do that? Get your butt on the short guy before he gets his on you.

 

[3rdside]

I wasn't - the extent of my basketball coaching (in three years no less) - was the p.e teacher coming down to the basketball courts one lunch hour with a piece of crumpled up paper teaching us some sort of continuity offense.

We tried it for 10 minutes, thought it sucked, so went back to freeballing.

Ahh Hong Kong; if there was ever a place where you were never going to make it in sports.


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[Errntknght]

I wasn't - the extent of my basketball coaching (in three years no less) - was the p.e teacher coming down to the basketball courts one lunch hour with a piece of crumpled up paper teaching us some sort of continuity offense.

We tried it for 10 minutes, thought it sucked, so went back to freeballing.

Ahh Hong Kong; if there was ever a place where you were never going to make it in sports.


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Is 'continuity' another name for a motion offense?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is 'continuity' another name for a motion offense?

I know I've heard Wooden's high post offense referred to as a continuity offense so I think it's a very general term rather than a specific offense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just googled continuity offense and surprise, it's in Wiki. According to them: "Continuity offenses are characterized by a pattern of movement, cuts, screens and passes which eventually leads back to the starting formation". Apparently it's taught often in Europe? And the best known examples of it are the Shuffle Offense, Flex, Wheel and Wooden's High Post Offense.

 

[BC867]

People wondered why stoudemire wasn't a good rebounder - it wasn't effort, it was his broad shoulders and muscly upper body combined with skinny butt and legs that meant his centre of gravity was ridiculously high; a stocky 6fter would have boxed him out no problem. It's why Barkley was a good rebounder - he had a massive ass and could not be moved off his block.

Maker is the same - he has the worlds skinniest legs and any muscle he puts on will largely go up top, inching his centre of gravity up accordingly. His speed and length will, of course, help but he'll never be a 'good' rebounder.

And, there are two aspects to being the better rebounder vs. an opponent on any given night.

Those who get their share by the end of the game -- RPG average. Some consistent rebounders depend upon positioning -- right place/right time.

And those who, at any time vs. any opponent, have the edge, especially with the game on the line and in any situation.

In other words, dominance when it matters most vs. fancy numbers over the course of a season.

Of course, our Suns have always been about fancy numbers over the course of a season rather than dominance. The one tag that has never identified our team has been dominance.

 

[overseascardfan]

Sabonis or Baldwin.

Hope is for PHX to trade Knight for a Top 10 pick and draft Ellenson, Baldwin & Sabonis.

 

[3rdside]

- Sabonis will be hard not to pick over maker
- Ellenson I'm on the fence but lean maker
- maker over skal


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[3rdside]

Is 'continuity' another name for a motion offense?

What do I know!


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[GatorAZ]

Any of those guys over Maker is an easy decision.

 

[3rdside]

Any of those guys over Maker is an easy decision.

No it's not ********.

See the problem here?

I proposed this a few years back - and I actually offered to do the data collection myself - as none of us really knows jack about jack....I thought it a good idea to collect everyone's opinion about players pre-draft (e.g. in an excel sheet) and what they think these players' upside / downside / actual career outcomes would be.

That way we can build up a profile of who on this board actually has any real skill in identifying in talent.

I've been on boards since about 1997 so I've outlived more than a few NBA careers, and it's not like I'm going anywhere.






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[Sunburn]

I call BS on your BS.

Plenty things go into rebounding - timing, hops, anticipation, effort, length and centre of gravity.

I'm 6'6" (6'8 in shoes lol) and have the same make up - broad shoulders and skinny ass. A guard at my school was 5'7" and he worked out exactly how to stop me rebounding; use his lower centre of gravity to stop me moving. It was nuts, he was my toughest opponent (on the playground - we both played on the school team) and I had to resort to going round the guy or hope the ball would pop up high enough in my direction to try and grab the rebound.

So my opinion is coming from personal experience - I may be wrong of course but that's my insight.


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Dwight Howard....

 

[AzStevenCal]

I proposed this a few years back - and I actually offered to do the data collection myself - as none of us really knows jack about jack....I thought it a good idea to collect everyone's opinion about players pre-draft (e.g. in an excel sheet) and what they think these players' upside / downside / actual career outcomes would be.

That way we can build up a profile of who on this board actually has any real skill in identifying in talent.

I've been on boards since about 1997 so I've outlived more than a few NBA careers, and it's not like I'm going anywhere.

Even if everyone bought in, would it really tell you anything. Take slinslin for example. Which opinion on player X are you going to log for him? His first opinion or his 34th opinion? The more active a person is in the draft conversation the more likely his (or her) opinion will shift, especially if they are trying to be open-minded and allow themselves to be influenced by data and other opinions.

Or take me for example. I really liked Jaylen Brown and thought he was a lock for future superstar. Then I watched a few more Cal games and I jumped off his bandwagon completely and then he had a good stretch of games and I snuck back on but settled for a spot in the back and now I'm ready to pull the spokes off his wagon wheels so no one will waste time and effort crawling onto it. Same with Murray (actually, both Murrays). And I did something quite similar a few years back with Kyrie Irving, changed my mind a half dozen times on him at least.

 

[3rdside]

Changing minds is no problem - I've been doing it - you just need to lock in on draft day; final call no more changes at that point.




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[Mainstreet]

Or take me for example. I really liked Jaylen Brown and thought he was a lock for future superstar. Then I watched a few more Cal games and I jumped off his bandwagon completely and then he had a good stretch of games and I snuck back on but settled for a spot in the back and now I'm ready to pull the spokes off his wagon wheels so no one will waste time and effort crawling onto it. Same with Murray (actually, both Murrays). And I did something quite similar a few years back with Kyrie Irving, changed my mind a half dozen times on him at least.

My first choice was for the Suns to draft Jamal Murray at #4. He is another player from Kentucky who is an explosive scorer. I can see him playing PG. IMO, he is a safe pick.

Then I switched choices to Jaylen Brown at #4 who is physical specimen who might eventually play some PF in in small ball lineups. He would help strengthen one of the forward positions. Now I'm beginning to question his attitude.

Then I switched my choice to drafting Henry Ellenson at #4 because I don't think he will be there at #13. He is not a flashy player but I like his ball handling skills and his size. He should have a long career although he may never reach star level... but I think he is a safe pick like Murray.

A trade down would be nice at #4 but you can't count on it happening.

I'm still not settled on the 4th pick so it is hard to move onto the 13th pick but for now I'm sticking with Ellenson. I wish I knew more about Dragan Bender. The scouts seem to like him and all the big men in this draft are project players.

I guess I would draft Skal Labissiere at #13.

I think the Celtics will draft Chriss or trade out of the #3 position.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just don't ignore defense. Pick the complete player. Learn from Kevin Love and the Cavs.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just don't ignore defense. Pick the complete player. Learn from Kevin Love and the Cavs.

I'd explore trading for Kevin Love if I were in the Suns front office. He would be a huge improvement at PF.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just don't ignore defense. Pick the complete player. Learn from Kevin Love and the Cavs.

I don't know what you can learn from the Love situation unless you think last night told the whole story? He's not a perfect fit with Lebron, we know that, but we also know he's not the first "star" to be diminished playing next to Lebron.

Love doesn't defend well but he can be an excellent rebounder in the right situation and rebounding shows heavily in defensive ratings. Personally I'd be thrilled if we could draft a Kevin Love this season.

 

[GatorAZ]

No it's not ********.

See the problem here?

I proposed this a few years back - and I actually offered to do the data collection myself - as none of us really knows jack about jack....I thought it a good idea to collect everyone's opinion about players pre-draft (e.g. in an excel sheet) and what they think these players' upside / downside / actual career outcomes would be.

That way we can build up a profile of who on this board actually has any real skill in identifying in talent.

I've been on boards since about 1997 so I've outlived more than a few NBA careers, and it's not like I'm going anywhere.






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Easy decision. Thon Maker is not going in the lotto. YouTube **** fanboys.

 

[leclerc]

About anything would be a huge improvement at PF. And I really like Len, I think he still has yet to reach his potential but his position id not really PF

I have not put a lot of time into evaluating the rookies but I try to envision how we should grow a core and it's obvious that we need PF and maybe PG or SF so I hope we fill at least one rotation spot in this years draft (short term) and hit for the fences with the other pick.