With the 4th pick, the Phoenix Suns Select

[AzStevenCal]

Sorry, I was referring to some of the responses since.

Okay. But if you're including my responses than I failed to make my point. I think the memory of a championship can be and usually is a very treasured life-long moment.

 

[Covert Rain]

Okay. But if you're including my responses than I failed to make my point. I think the memory of a championship can be and usually is a very treasured life-long moment.

Which correlates to my point which was you can have many years of winning without a title that seem empty compared to the year you win a title. In the short term it might seem cool that that team is exciting to watch but as a fan, my goal isn't to watch exciting basketball....it's to see my team win titles. Just my opinion.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Which correlates to my point which was you can have many years of winning without a title that seem empty compared to the year you win a title. In the short term it might seem cool that that team is exciting to watch but as a fan, my goal isn't to watch exciting basketball....it's to see my team win titles. Just my opinion.

Mine's both. I want a championship but I know you don't build championship teams, you build teams that have a chance to win a championship and you hope the breaks come your way. As long as I believe they are working towards that goal, I can enjoy watching every game win or lose. But the few seasons where I had doubt about the direction of the organization (the Warrick year and the Scola season for examples), I really struggled to even watch the games.

Unlike many here, I'm convinced that Sarver wants to field a competitive team that can eventually win a championship. I'm also convinced that money plays a part in why he wants to win that championship, perhaps a big part. He isn't one of the deep pocket owners so he has to make tough money-based decisions along the way and he's made some real blunders when doing so. But even the deep pocket owners make fiscal calls that sometimes costs them on the court. If Miami hadn't tried to save money a couple of years ago (when they were raking it in) Lebron likely never leaves there.

 

[BC867]

Mine's both. I want a championship but I know you don't build championship teams, you build teams that have a chance to win a championship and you hope the breaks come your way. As long as I believe they are working towards that goal, I can enjoy watching every game win or lose. But the few seasons where I had doubt about the direction of the organization (the Warrick year and the Scola season for examples), I really struggled to even watch the games.

All good points. But the Suns' philosophy since their inception seemed to be to fill the seats by entertaining the fans. And for a long time, that was all it took for Colangelo's Suns to be successful. Success meaning revenue.

It could be said now that Sarver's Suns are mired in failure. Talking about a championship is out of the question. But not making the playoffs season after season? That is disappointment on all levels.

 

[JCSunsfan]

All good points. But the Suns' philosophy since their inception seemed to be to fill the seats by entertaining the fans. And for a long time, that was all it took for Colangelo's Suns to be successful. Success meaning revenue.

It could be said now that Sarver's Suns are mired in failure. Talking about a championship is out of the question. But not making the playoffs season after season? That is disappointment on all levels.

BC, we have had this ongoing discussion over the years. I just want to go on record again, that Jerry Colangelo was bent on winning a championship, not just filling seats. This view of him is absolutely inaccurate IMO. He mortgaged his future in an effort to do so. He did it with the Suns and he did it with the Diamondbacks. People may feel free to disagree with the way that he went about it, but his commitment to winning it all is beyond question.

 

[Covert Rain]

BC, we have had this ongoing discussion over the years. I just want to go on record again, that Jerry Colangelo was bent on winning a championship, not just filling seats. This view of him is absolutely inaccurate IMO. He mortgaged his future in an effort to do so. He did it with the Suns and he did it with the Diamondbacks. People may feel free to disagree with the way that he went about it, but his commitment to winning it all is beyond question.

Not sure that is entirely accurate that everything he did was to win a title. Although I agree that Jerry wanted to win a championship bad, there were years they fielded small ball type teams to put butts in the seats IMO. Jerry was a smart guy and I don't think he had any illusions that would net him a championship. Jerry seemed if he couldn't get something done (trade, free agent signing) he wasn't above short term solutions to boost revenue IMO verses bottoming out either. Before this year, drafting around the teens almost seemed like a franchise right of passage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmm, I disagree. I'll never trade game 7 of the World Series with my brothers or the memories of the entire playoffs that year. It's made it much easier to stomach dbacks being mediocre since.

Ben the super bowl run was a glorious memory with my whole family. Winning it, with my pop and brothers there would have been a memory I would've never let go of.

So I disagree. It does put a pep in your step. If our Barkley Suns had defeated Jordan's bulls we would still be relishing it today.

This x1000.

I still get goosebumps watching my D-Backs Championship DVD... and that's for freaking BASEBALL, which is a distant 3rd favorite sport. Those memories of everything that went on in my life with friends and family watching that title run are beyond cherished and do give me warm fuzzies when I now look at how nothing the Backs are.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't believe we've ever been that team, I don't believe it exists.

Then what do you call those Suns teams from 2010-2014?

 

[sunsfan88]

Hmm, I disagree. I'll never trade game 7 of the World Series with my brothers or the memories of the entire playoffs that year. It's made it much easier to stomach dbacks being mediocre since.

Ben the super bowl run was a glorious memory with my whole family. Winning it, with my pop and brothers there would have been a memory I would've never let go of.

So I disagree. It does put a pep in your step. If our Barkley Suns had defeated Jordan's bulls we would still be relishing it today.

This.

I have a couple of friends who are Mavs fans and they bought DVDs of their championship season and they rewatch that over and over and over again to cope with how bad their team has been since that championship. It's something they'll never forget in their lifetime I'm sure.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns won a championship I'd buy the DVD and retire.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the Suns won a championship I'd buy the DVD and retire.

That was probably tongue in cheek but the more I read here the more convinced I am that the worst thing the Suns could do is to win a championship. If that's all it really takes for most fans and they can simply ignore the team in the bad seasons once they have that banner, well it seems self defeating to put one of them in the rafters. I love watching basketball and it's more enjoyable when you care about the players involved in the game. I don't want to stop caring because then I'd have to watch more movies and TV and they put out far too much crap to fill my retirement.

 

[chickenhead]

Anyone is going to probably choose a championship over long-term competitiveness and entertainment, but of course that's not a choice anyone has ever had to make -- and championship teams also tend to be entertaining with a few exceptions.

But the idea of seeking entertainment rather than a championship is something pretty uniquely applied to the Suns in basketball, because they're the "best franchise to never win a championship." The fact is that the Suns at their most entertaining have also been the Suns teams closest to a title.

But also, to be fair with respect of the idea of "entertaining" basketball, we discount gate receipts these days because of the mammoth TV deals, but for a long time you were done as a franchise if you didn't have them.

In the first 20 years the Suns existed, the Celtics and Lakers won 12 of the titles. Six each: the Suns lost to the Celtics once in the finals and twice to the Lakers in the conference finals. The other teams who won were the Bucks (with Kareem after the Suns lost the coin toss), the Rick Barry Warriors, the Bill Walton Blazers, the Wes Unseld Bullets, the DJ Sonics (who upset the Suns), the Dr. J. and Moses Malone Sixers, and into the Pistons era.

During that time, there were 7 relocations, a few of which could surely have been prevented by entertaining ball or a top-tier player like some of the teams above had.

Besides, if the Suns were really only about entertainment and fan service, they wouldn't have traded Westy for DJ, and they wouldn't have traded Majerle for Hot Rod. Even when they traded DJ they traded him for a center.

 

[Mainstreet]

That was probably tongue in cheek but the more I read here the more convinced I am that the worst thing the Suns could do is to win a championship. If that's all it really takes for most fans and they can simply ignore the team in the bad seasons once they have that banner, well it seems self defeating to put one of them in the rafters. I love watching basketball and it's more enjoyable when you care about the players involved in the game. I don't want to stop caring because then I'd have to watch more movies and TV and they put out far too much crap to fill my retirement.

It was definitely tongue in cheek but I think winning a championship would be like accomplishing some major goal on life's journey. It would be fun to enjoy it at least once.

Also, I think it would also give the Suns and fans something that cannot be taken away. It's a good thing to have on your resume. I want the Suns to win something at the highest level. I don't think diehard Suns fans would ever stop caring. It would only whet their appetite. However, a championship would help cement the Suns legacy.

 

[sunsfan88]

Both my Chargers and the Suns are the best teams in their individual sport to have never won a championship so yea it sure would be wonderful if at least one of them becomes a winner.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It was definitely tongue in cheek but I think winning a championship would be like accomplishing some major goal on life's journey. It would be fun to enjoy it at least once.

Also, I think it would also give the Suns and fans something that cannot be taken away. It's a good thing to have on your resume. I want the Suns to win something at the highest level. I don't think diehard Suns fans would ever stop caring. It would only whet their appetite. However, a championship would help cement the Suns legacy.

I agree, winning a championship would be special and more than anything, for me, a Suns championship.

 

[BC867]

But the idea of seeking entertainment rather than a championship is something pretty uniquely applied to the Suns in basketball, because they're the "best franchise to never win a championship."

That is the perfect summary. The best franchise to never win a championship. A unique (lack of) accomplishment.

Not in ten seasons or twenty seasons. But in all 46. It is a stigma that haunts all long-term Suns fans. Never having the skill to reach that final goal.

What is the key to that failure? Not just the lack of a championship but, the true cause, reaching the Finals only twice. With one of them a Cinderella season. One legitimate Finals in 46 years.

When it comes to the Championship series, just like the State lottery, you can't win if you don't play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That is the perfect summary. The best franchise to never win a championship. A unique (lack of) accomplishment.

Not in ten seasons or twenty seasons. But in all 46. It is a stigma that haunts all long-term Suns fans. Never having the skill to reach that final goal.

What is the key to that failure? Not just the lack of a championship but, the true cause, reaching the Finals only twice. With one of them a Cinderella season. One legitimate Finals in 46 years.

When it comes to the Championship series, just like the State lottery, you can't win if you don't play.

I'm a long term fan and I feel no disgrace or dishonor simply because our team has played well but not quite well enough. I doubt I'm alone in that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm a long term fan and I feel no disgrace or dishonor simply because our team has played well but not quite well enough. I doubt I'm alone in that.

Agreed.

 

[BC867]

I'm a long term fan and I feel no disgrace or dishonor simply because our team has played well but not quite well enough. I doubt I'm alone in that.

OK, some long term Suns fans.

 

[AzStevenCal]

OK, some long term Suns fans.

Just the crazy ones with pitchforks and torches.

 

[BC867]

Just the crazy ones with pitchforks and torches.

Pitchforks? Well, I did take a post-grad course in Industrial Psychology at ASU after moving to Phoenix. So I guess there is a little Sun Devil in me.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm a long term fan and I feel no disgrace or dishonor simply because our team has played well but not quite well enough. I doubt I'm alone in that.

I don't think disgrace or dishonor is the right terms. I know a ton of Suns fans and I think it has more to do with disappointment and frustration. When I go to games I usually go with a group of 5 to 8 guys and I know we have all had this discussion on numerous occasions. Many of us fans since we were kids. It's almost unanimous that anything short of a title is unacceptable no matter how good the season is.

That doesn't mean we don't recognize any short term successes, cheer the progress of the team and enjoy that short term. I think we just all recognize the end game and that each year this team goes racking up wins with no title is becoming more hollow each year. I find this true of more life long fans verses recent ones that don't have any perspective on how long the fans have waited.

 

[leclerc]

So the consensus seems to be:
#4 Chriss/Bender
#13 Sabonis/Ellenson

Let's see how close we come. I hope we have a shot at at least one of Sabonis and Ellenson at #13 but we can't tell until the draft.



Personally I'm afraid (just guesswork of course) that Chriss won't pan out and that Bender might be a Tskivilli so I'm leaning towards Murray at #4 and shipping Knight OUT.

 

[slinslin]

Id love to know how you figure that the consensus is drafting a bist at 13.

The consensus of this board would have given us Kaminsky probably.

 

[leclerc]

I just browsed the last few pages of this thread and wrote the names often mentioned by different posters. Not unanimous choice at #13, just often mentioned. Are you OK with that?