With the 4th pick, the Phoenix Suns Select

[Superbone]

I think Chriss can rebound the ball offensively but it is fair to ask whether he can do it defensively. IMO, a lot will depend upon the Suns assessment of whether his body can develop further. I think the Suns medical staff will have a say in this matter.

Rebounding is about effort and desire. What his body will or won't do doesn't enter into the equation in my mind.

 

[Mainstreet]

Rebounding is about effort and desire. What his body will or won't do doesn't enter into the equation in my mind.

If all things were equal, this might be true.

However, Chriss' frame may always pose a hindrance. I'm not denying effort and desire has a lot to do with rebounding, but in the video I've watched of Chriss, he was bulldozed out of the way on defensive rebounds. I do not know if he can ever hold his own on the defensive boards unless his body develops.

I would prefer the Suns draft Bender over Chriss but both are projects. It's up to the scouts to figure out the upside of each player. Bender is also very raw and needs to develop physically as well. However, I like his frame and measurements better.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Chad Ford was just on a local Philadelphia radio station for a 13 minute interview. He confirmed the 76ers can't land a top 5-6 pick for Okafor and now are pivoting toward finding a young guard (23-25) for Okafor...

He specifically only mentioned maybe Avery Bradley and the #16 for Okafor, but said guards are so in demand and there just aren't that many young guards that fit their core...

While there has been tremendous backlash wanting to deal Knight, I think it's becoming more and more clear that he might be more of an asset than a liability to unload.

Based on Ford's comments and what he is hearing, if the Suns offered Brandon Knight and the #13 pick, it sounds like it would be the best offer the Sixers might ultimately get...

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/...mors-jahlil-okafor-top-five-pick-nerlens-noel

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Chad Ford was just on a local Philadelphia radio station for a 13 minute interview. He confirmed the 76ers can't land a top 5-6 pick for Okafor and now are pivoting toward finding a young guard (23-25) for Okafor...

He specifically only mentioned maybe Avery Bradley and the #16 for Okafor, but said guards are so in demand and there just aren't that many young guards that fit their core...

While there has been tremendous backlash wanting to deal Knight, I think it's becoming more and more clear that he might be more of an asset than a liability to unload.

Based on Ford's comments and what he is hearing, if the Suns offered Brandon Knight and the #13 pick, it sounds like it would be the best offer the Sixers might ultimately get...

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/...mors-jahlil-okafor-top-five-pick-nerlens-noel

I do that for sure.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The potential of this kid is simply throught the roof. Nobody can tell me that that type of talent, potential, age and decent size wouldn't be a top 5 pick in other drafts.
Also with Chriss being 18 and growing from like 6'8 to 6'10 he might very well end up 6'11.

By rate, he is the worst PF defensive rebounder ever. He gives inconsistent effort on both ends of the court and he's one of the least aware defenders I have ever seen. He turns the ball over at a high rate and he rarely passes. It's a rare draft where a player like Marquese would go top 10 let alone top 5. He's very young and he came to the game late so I'd be fine if we took the gamble but he and Jaylen Brown are the 2 biggest gambles from this NCAA draft class IMO.

 

[GatorAZ]

Chad Ford was just on a local Philadelphia radio station for a 13 minute interview. He confirmed the 76ers can't land a top 5-6 pick for Okafor and now are pivoting toward finding a young guard (23-25) for Okafor...

He specifically only mentioned maybe Avery Bradley and the #16 for Okafor, but said guards are so in demand and there just aren't that many young guards that fit their core...

While there has been tremendous backlash wanting to deal Knight, I think it's becoming more and more clear that he might be more of an asset than a liability to unload.

Based on Ford's comments and what he is hearing, if the Suns offered Brandon Knight and the #13 pick, it sounds like it would be the best offer the Sixers might ultimately get...

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/...mors-jahlil-okafor-top-five-pick-nerlens-noel

Or #4 for Okafor & LAL pick. Keep #13 and pair it with Knight to move up.

 

[Mainstreet]

Chad Ford was just on a local Philadelphia radio station for a 13 minute interview. He confirmed the 76ers can't land a top 5-6 pick for Okafor and now are pivoting toward finding a young guard (23-25) for Okafor...

He specifically only mentioned maybe Avery Bradley and the #16 for Okafor, but said guards are so in demand and there just aren't that many young guards that fit their core...

While there has been tremendous backlash wanting to deal Knight, I think it's becoming more and more clear that he might be more of an asset than a liability to unload.

Based on Ford's comments and what he is hearing, if the Suns offered Brandon Knight and the #13 pick, it sounds like it would be the best offer the Sixers might ultimately get...

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/...mors-jahlil-okafor-top-five-pick-nerlens-noel

This is hard to believe in the 2016 draft where there are so many question marks early. I can't help but wonder if there are other factors in regard to Okafor.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't get it... is Okafor just like the biggest idiot in the world off the court? To give up on a skilled big man this early... and apparently not be able to get anything much for him seems really weird.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't get it... is Okafor just like the biggest idiot in the world off the court? To give up on a skilled big man this early... and apparently not be able to get anything much for him seems really weird.

It's clear he doesn't fit with Noel and a healthy Embiid is an even better prospect than either of them plus then you throw in Saric. It's also a time in the NBA where you have to really wonder if you can win big with a player like Okafor who is high usage, high turnover, much lower than expected TS and weak on defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's clear he doesn't fit with Noel and a healthy Embiid is an even better prospect than either of them plus then you throw in Saric. It's also a time in the NBA where you have to really wonder if you can win big with a player like Okafor who is high usage, high turnover, much lower than expected TS and weak on defense.

yeah, but is Embiid EVER going to be healthy? That guy is easily the second coming of Oden at this point.

 

[elindholm]

I do that for sure.

Me too, that's a no-brainer. I'm surprised that the market for Okafor is so soft. People must be remembering what a weenie Emeka was.

 

[AzStevenCal]

yeah, but is Embiid EVER going to be healthy? That guy is easily the second coming of Oden at this point.

They say his health problems are behind him now but who knows?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Knight and the two later picks for Okafor. Keep #4 and 13. Why not? We are negotiating here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Knight and the two later picks for Okafor. Keep #4 and 13. Why not? We are negotiating here.

I think they have a specific target in mind so unless they want Knight as much as the guard they're interested in, this is probably a non-starter. It's my understanding that the only reason they are aggressively pursuing a trade right now is so they can grab that guard (Dunn? Murray?) in the top 5 otherwise they'd probably be waiting for a market to develop for Okafor over the next season or two.

 

[slinslin]

I don't get it... is Okafor just like the biggest idiot in the world off the court? To give up on a skilled big man this early... and apparently not be able to get anything much for him seems really weird.

Teams dont want to build around a low post center that is very poor defensively.

Not easy to integrate a dominant low post player into offenses that want to move the ball, play pick and roll, use screens, shoot 3s.

 

[slinslin]

By rate, he is the worst PF defensive rebounder ever. He gives inconsistent effort on both ends of the court and he's one of the least aware defenders I have ever seen. He turns the ball over at a high rate and he rarely passes. It's a rare draft where a player like Marquese would go top 10 let alone top 5. He's very young and he came to the game late so I'd be fine if we took the gamble but he and Jaylen Brown are the 2 biggest gambles from this NCAA draft class IMO.

Thaddeus Young had a worse defensive rebounding rate than Chriss as far as I know.

And while Young played more SF, Washington put Chriss on the perimeter to defend A LOT which is mentioned in most scouting reports.

Thaddeus Young is doing decently enough rebounding in the NBA.

Also Chriss terrific offensive rebounding numbers indicate that he has a good feel for tracking the ball and timing to get the rebound.

There are many reasons to explain his poor defensive rebounding rate: played on the perimeter a lot defensively, had fouling issues as a freshman which obviously impacts how hard he could go for rebounds, he came late to basketball because of a growth spurt and transitioned from wing to power forward and well he wont turn 19 under July.

Let that sink, Chriss is a year younger than Amare as a draft prospect.

If Chriss and Amare were in the same draft, I don't think you could rate Amare higher than Chriss.

Also Chriss is averaging about 1 apg in 26mpg. While that is not outstanding for a PF, it is absolutely fine. Skal is averaging a lot less assists, Davis is about the same.

Henry Ellenson doubles it but he plays at considerbly higher usaged and an additional 8 minutes per game. Also Chriss played with high usage guards.
Chriss averaged 2 turnovers per game, Sabonis 2.6 at 5 more minutes, Ellenson 2.4 at 8 more minutes.. So Chriss turnovers are in line with pretty much all the draft big man.

Draftexpress updated mock
1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Dunn
4. Chriss
5. Hield
6. Murray
7. Bender
8. Brown
..
..
11. Skal
12. Baldwin
13. Sabonis
...
...
26. Murray
28. Qi
29. Jones
..
34. Ulis
35. Maker

 

[slinslin]

Here is some Dragan Bender for you

He played 74 minutes in the euro league competition this year. In 74 minutes he managed to grab 10 rebounds 4 assists 4 turnovers 3 blocks 4blockedAgainst 15 points.

He shot 40% from the field (4 of 10) and 2 of 8 from 3.

To put this into perspective lets translate this to a 24 minute boxscore:

4.8ppg 3.2rpg 1.3apg 1bpg 1.3topg 24mpg

Now for the Israeli season:

Bender made 25 2pt field goals and 23 3pt field goals. Yes this is the volume we are talking about when scouting reports call him a stretch 4 because he shot 40% from the European 3pt line.

He took 44 2pt field goals and 57 Euro 3s.

He grabbed a total of 70 rebounds in the Israeli league and fouled 68 times. So basically for every he rebound he got he committed a foul.

But Bender is a great passer, in euro league 4 assists and 4 turnover. In Israel 20 assists and 16 turnovers. Hardly stellar.

Also to put the competition in comparison. In the euro league Bender was blocked 4 times in 74 minutes. In the Israeli league he was not blocked even once in 352 minutes.

 

[leclerc]

I was just saying that Okafor is considerably larger than Chriss and that Chriss looks like he'll stay "thin" like Bosch & those kind of PFs. Chriss could still be fantastic. Okafor and Chriss have good size for their positions (inside/strech 4).

If both are available (along with Bender) the FO has to decide what kind of team they want. None of them seems like a sure thing to me, so they have to do their homework and just hope it goes well.

I hope we can do both so we can add:
#4 Bender/Chriss/Murray (whoever they like best)
Okafor for #13 and Knight

C Okafor/Chandler
PF Len/Chriss or Bender
SF Warren/Tucker
SG Booker/Goodwin/Milos?
PG Bledsoe/Ulis?

 

[leclerc]

If we pick Bender we must call him dragon bender. What a macho nickname!

 

[AZCrazy]

Can only hope we're not the clowns to take this year's Darko Milicic in a loaded draft class. No to Bender.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Can only hope we're not the clowns to take this year's Darko Milicic in a loaded draft class. No to Bender.

It's hardly a loaded draft class unless you're just talking about it being deep. And it is deep, you're likely to find a few starter or near starter players at the bottom of the round. But usually when we say "loaded" we're talking about identifiable stars and this class is light in that. An awful lot of maybes, very few probables.

So what's your reasoning for not wanting Bender? To the best of my knowledge, no one here has any reason to think highly or poorly of him unless you just want to write him off because he's a white guy from Europe. And it's hard to argue against that point. But we really know nothing about him and it's not because he wasn't a good enough prospect to warrant playing time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here is some Dragan Bender for you

Yeah, we know he didn't play this past season and most of us understand why he didn't play. It's interesting that you keep spinning this as if winning the argument will make a difference in our drafting. Just looking at stats and recent video, there is no reason to draft Bender. None. Zero. And I don't see anyone disputing that. But we don't do the drafting and the people that do that throughout the league are apparently high on this guy. They've been wrong before but who knows?

But as hard as you spin against this guy, you spin the other way for Chriss. You argue that his historically poor defensive rebounding is a non-issue because one time there was this small forward that was even worse. Okay. And you point out that he spent a lot of time on the perimeter. A valid point IMO but I can remember that being overlooked time and again on this board when just about every poster went ballistic on Frye's poor numbers and as a defensive rebounder this guy makes Frye look like Moses Malone (hyperbole).

But even if we accept the Chriss excuses, doesn't it worry you that a guy who supposedly spent all his time on the perimeter and never had to fight for defensive boards was only able to play 25 minutes a game because he fouled at a Mark Westian rate? And doesn't it concern you just a little that a team headed by perhaps the 3rd best and 13th best prospect in this class couldn't even make the NCAA tournament?

But as I've said before, I'm fine with taking Bender or Chriss, I see the allure of each. I have no idea which of these two is the better bet. I think they're both gambles. But I don't see a truly better option so if our front office has done their work and they've fallen in love with Marquese or Dragan, I'm all for drafting that guy.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, we know he didn't play this past season and most of us understand why he didn't play. It's interesting that you keep spinning this as if winning the argument will make a difference in our drafting. Just looking at stats and recent video, there is no reason to draft Bender. None. Zero. And I don't see anyone disputing that. But we don't do the drafting and the people that do that throughout the league are apparently high on this guy. They've been wrong before but who knows?

But as hard as you spin against this guy, you spin the other way for Chriss. You argue that his historically poor defensive rebounding is a non-issue because one time there was this small forward that was even worse. Okay. And you point out that he spent a lot of time on the perimeter. A valid point IMO but I can remember that being overlooked time and again on this board when just about every poster went ballistic on Frye's poor numbers and as a defensive rebounder this guy makes Frye look like Moses Malone (hyperbole).

But even if we accept the Chriss excuses, doesn't it worry you that a guy who supposedly spent all his time on the perimeter and never had to fight for defensive boards was only able to play 25 minutes a game because he fouled at a Mark Westian rate? And doesn't it concern you just a little that a team headed by perhaps the 3rd best and 13th best prospect in this class couldn't even make the NCAA tournament?

But as I've said before, I'm fine with taking Bender or Chriss, I see the allure of each. I have no idea which of these two is the better bet. I think they're both gambles. But I don't see a truly better option so if our front office has done their work and they've fallen in love with Marquese or Dragan, I'm all for drafting that guy.

I don't think either player is defensible on the boards. I have to laugh because I don't recall the last time someone who had suspect overall rebounding numbers turned into a good rebounder in the NBA. I am sure it has happened but it's extremely rare.

I just can't get behind Bender at all even if the Suns draft the guy. His "athleticism" reminds me of Robin Lopez. I watched video after video of this guy and there are times for a guy his size he plays below the rim for some reason. One of the things that bugged me about Lopez. This guys isn't going to be a star in the NBA. I can't say that Chriss will either but I definitely love his athleticism much more so than Bender. Chriss in some ways reminds of of Marion. Not saying that is what he will turn into but the way he moves is similar.

Having said that, if the Suns draft him...I so hope I am wrong.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think either player is defensible on the boards. I have to laugh because I don't recall the last time someone who had suspect overall rebounding numbers turned into a good rebounder in the NBA. I am sure it has happened but it's extremely rare.

I just can't get behind Bender at all even if the Suns draft the guy. His "athleticism" reminds me of Robin Lopez. I watched video after video of this guy and there are times for a guy his size he plays below the rim for some reason. One of the things that bugged me about Lopez. This guys isn't going to be a star in the NBA. I can't say that Chriss will either but I definitely love his athleticism much more so than Bender. Chriss in some ways reminds of of Marion. Not saying that is what he will turn into but the way he moves is similar.

Having said that, if the Suns draft him...I so hope I am wrong.

Wow, I'm not a huge fan of Bender, but comparing him to Robin Lopez is way off base. I've seen a bunch of video of him and Bender is literally twice the athlete Lopez is.

 

[Covert Rain]

Wow, I'm not a huge fan of Bender, but comparing him to Robin Lopez is way off base. I've seen a bunch of video of him and Bender is literally twice the athlete Lopez is.

We must be watching different video. I just re-watched. He lacks strength especially when he slashes. He struggles to score when someone even remotely his size is in his face. Not to mention when on catch and shoots he stands straight up. Often when he drives to the rim, if you give him any contact he throws the ball up. The scouting report says he defends better away than at the basket even though he is a 7+footer. Limited leaping ability. Disappears on the glass for long stretches.

Who does that sound like to you?