With the 4th pick, the Phoenix Suns Select

[DWKB]

Jamal Murray was a defensive liability at UK. I don't think he has the ability to stay in front of NBA guards.

 

[overseascardfan]

Jamal Murray was a defensive liability at UK. I don't think he has the ability to stay in front of NBA guards.

Also, PHX needs a PG that can create, not only for themselves but for their teammates. That is one of Murray's main weaknesses. He's a scoring guard not a playmaking guard.

 

[slinslin]

Also, PHX needs a PG that can create, not only for themselves but for their teammates. That is one of Murray's main weaknesses. He's a scoring guard not a playmaking guard.

I dont think that is a need at all.

We dont want a ball dominant PG that takes the ball out of Bookers hands too much. Booker has shown great ability at creating and handling the ball we would not want to diminish that skill.

A combo PG who can do some of everything and be a deadly shooter seems to be the ideal fit next to Booker.

Defense is a worry but that is hard to tell. Steph Curry was not a good defender in college I would say.

Bledsoe is a really good fit assuming he stays healthy but if Murray is the BPA which it looks like than I would say he is an easy pick and move Knight or Bledsoe in the process.

 

[overseascardfan]

I dont think that is a need at all.

We dont want a ball dominant PG that takes the ball out of Bookers hands too much. Booker has shown great ability at creating and handling the ball we would not want to diminish that skill.

A combo PG who can do some of everything and be a deadly shooter seems to be the ideal fit next to Booker.

Defense is a worry but that is hard to tell. Steph Curry was not a good defender in college I would say.

Bledsoe is a really good fit assuming he stays healthy but if Murray is the BPA which it looks like than I would say he is an easy pick and move Knight or Bledsoe in the process.

When you have 2 combo guards already on the roster along with Booker, you don't need another one in Murray. A Tyler Ulis would be a better fit as a back up.

 

[slinslin]

If McDonough and Watson realistically believe that Okafor could play next to Len then I would be open to trading #4 for Okafor.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

When you have 2 combo guards already on the roster along with Booker, you don't need another one in Murray. A Tyler Ulis would be a better fit as a back up.

You definitely trade Knight if you take Murray.

To me, there are two types of combo guards:

1. Someone with SG size but whom also possesses PG skills.

2. Someone with PG size without PG skills.

Knight is the second version. I think you could call Bledsoe a PG, but he's more like the second version.

Booker and Murray could both be the first kind of combo guard.

You're taking a gamble on Murray, but if that gamble pays off, then "combo guard" is not the insult for him that it is for a Brandon Knight type. It means he can play both positions at a high level, rather than meaning he really can't play either at a high level.

And I think Slinslin is right. Booker has enough passing and dribbling skill that you don't want a traditional ball-dominant point guard next to him anyway.

 

[Mainstreet]

If McDonough and Watson realistically believe that Okafor could play next to Len then I would be open to trading #4 for Okafor.

I would do this and probably more. I keep Len. I'm not fascinated with trading for the #8 pick. I think fans are underestimating the value of Knight.

I heard McDonough say he would be interested in trading the #28 and #34 picks to move up in the twenties or teens although the latter seems unlikely to happen. Although the top of this draft is not deep, I like the depth of this draft.

 

[slinslin]

I would do this and probably more. I keep Len. I'm not fascinated with trading for the #8 pick. I think fans are underestimating the value of Knight.

I heard McDonough say he would be interested in trading the #28 and #34 picks to move up in the twenties or teens although the latter seems unlikely to happen. Although the top of this draft is not deep, I like the depth of this draft.

It makes sense they could package #28+34 to secure the best project they can on the big board after they made the first 2 picks if they fear that nobody they really like will make it to 28.

I'd like to see them secure Thon Maker for instance.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I think fans are underestimating the value of Knight.

Of the players who took enough shots to qualify for the FG% leaderboard last year, Brandon Knight had the 9th worst FG%.

Of the ten players with the worst FG% in the NBA, Brandon Knight took the most shots per game. Even more than Kobe.

In fact, only 14 players in the entire league shot more per game than Knight.

Of the players in the top 20 in shots per game, 17 made the playoffs. They all shot a higher percentage than Brandon Knight.

Brandon Knight's FG% this year is virtually identical to his career FG%.

Knight does not pass well. He is not clutch. He is a liability on defense.

All he does is score, and he does this with an inefficiency and greed that is almost unmatched in the entire league.

I don't see the value.




In full disclosure: Booker didn't do much better on FG%, but neither did any of the high volume rookies. Mudiay, Russell, and Porzingis all shot worse.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

In comparison...

“People are now looking at him in a different light,” Calipari said Wednesday on the eve of Kentucky’s NCAA Tournament opener with Stony Brook. “It’s like, ‘Oh, my gosh, it's another Steph Curry. Do we want to pass on a Steph Curry?”

Calipari loves how Murray’s game has developed. His favorite catchphrase for the freshman from Canada is to explain that Murray is a “volume scorer” while not being a “volume shooter.”

“He's finishing games with 23 points and has 12 shots, you kidding' me?” Calipari said. “And when he's not getting shots he doesn't say one word, he's fine. So he's been a ball to coach."

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Knight also had the ninth most turnovers per game in the entire league.

There were only four point guards with more turnovers per game.

Three of them averaged double digits in assists. The fourth was Eric Bledsoe.


In fact, the only qualifying point guard with a worse assist-to-turnover ratio than Brandon Knight in the ENTIRE LEAGUE was D'Angelo Russell.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Knight also had the ninth most turnovers per game in the entire league.

There were only four point guards with more turnovers per game.

Three of them averaged double digits in assists. The fourth was Eric Bledsoe.


In fact, the only qualifying point guard with a worse assist-to-turnover ratio than Brandon Knight in the ENTIRE LEAGUE was D'Angelo Russell.

There are some mitigating circumstances but there's no arguing the fact that Knight has been mostly horrible for us. He had a couple of good weeks early in the season and then he had a good half season in Milwaukee. Other than that, he's been a high volume, low efficiency shooter with below average point guard skills. OTOH, he's still very young and the whole league watched as a playoff contending Milwaukee team fell apart once he was replaced at point guard by the reigning ROY.

I wish we'd never made the trades that brought him here but he's here and we need him to have more value than that of a cast-off. If there are no high paying suitors for him now (and I doubt there are), we're going to need to rehabilitate his image and create a market for him. If we can't do that, we're probably a full season further away from the starting point of playoff contender.

We could just dump him now and accept our fate and I'm sure that's the preference for most posters here but I'd prefer we give Watson a chance to work with him for a full season (or half season, at least). Perhaps, with his groin pull and ankle problems behind him, Watson can help him grow into the 6th man role he seems best suited for.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

When we traded for him Bucks fans pointed out that the team actually did better statistically when he was not on the floor. Sure, they fell apart after he left, but when the entire argument for his value is based on a questionable causal relationship to his impact on half a season, I don't see the point. It's not like his presence has ever equaled more wins for the Suns.

I honestly think Brandon Knight's value will decrease the more opportunities we give him.

There were definitely some mitigating circumstances last year, but his putrid FG% and assist-to-turnover ratio were right in line with his career averages.

So statistically, whether he is creating a shot for himself or for others, his success rate is at the bottom of the league, and he is a poor defender.

And now there are also concerns about his attitude and his fit with the team.

What is going to make him so much better going forward?

 

[AzStevenCal]

When we traded for him Bucks fans pointed out that the team actually did better statistically when he was not on the floor. Sure, they fell apart after he left, but when the entire argument for his value is based on a questionable causal relationship to his impact on half a season, I don't see the point. It's not like his presence has ever equaled more wins for the Suns.

I honestly think Brandon Knight's value will decrease the more opportunities we give him.

There were definitely some mitigating circumstances last year, but his putrid FG% and assist-to-turnover ratio were right in line with his career averages.

So statistically, whether he is creating a shot for himself or for others, his success rate is at the bottom of the league, and he is a poor defender.

And now there are also concerns about his attitude and his fit with the team.

What is going to make him so much better going forward?

Well, you know what you know. I have no answers, all I have are questions.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I have no answers, all I have are questions.

Fair enough. I guess we have that in common!

 

[slinslin]

Knights value is not that bad, he is still only 24, on a reasonable long term deal, very athletic, very talented, smart, hard worker, good teammate..

I feel like Knight frustrates us only so much because it is so obvious how much better he could be.

If it was not for Booker I wouldn't think of trading Knight.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Knights value is not that bad, he is still only 24, on a reasonable long term deal, very athletic, very talented, smart, hard worker, good teammate..

I feel like Knight frustrates us only so much because it is so obvious how much better he could be.

If it was not for Booker I wouldn't think of trading Knight.

He sure looked good with Bledsoe during the first month of last season. He has huge potential when he is not trying to play hero ball. And I think part of the problem is that he was doing exactly what he was being asked to do by the coaching staff. I think both Booker and Knight had the green light to jack it up whenever they wanted. Not sure if it was to give them confidence or to increase trade value or what.

Knight also played injured much of the year.

 

[Mainstreet]

It makes sense they could package #28+34 to secure the best project they can on the big board after they made the first 2 picks if they fear that nobody they really like will make it to 28.

I'd like to see them secure Thon Maker for instance.

There should be some interesting players available in the early twenties. Thon Maker is one of them. Taurean Prince might be another as the Suns were interested in signing DeMarre Carroll in the last free agency period.

 

[Mainstreet]

Of the players who took enough shots to qualify for the FG% leaderboard last year, Brandon Knight had the 9th worst FG%.

Of the ten players with the worst FG% in the NBA, Brandon Knight took the most shots per game. Even more than Kobe.

In fact, only 14 players in the entire league shot more per game than Knight.

Of the players in the top 20 in shots per game, 17 made the playoffs. They all shot a higher percentage than Brandon Knight.

Brandon Knight's FG% this year is virtually identical to his career FG%.

Knight does not pass well. He is not clutch. He is a liability on defense.

All he does is score, and he does this with an inefficiency and greed that is almost unmatched in the entire league.

I don't see the value.

In full disclosure: Booker didn't do much better on FG%, but neither did any of the high volume rookies. Mudiay, Russell, and Porzingis all shot worse.

IMO, Knight would make a dynamic SG. He got lost in Hornacek's two PG system. If the Suns keep Knight they need to relieve him of PG duties. I'm not ready to give up on him at his young age.

 

[Errntknght]

IMO, Knight would make a dynamic SG. He got lost in Hornacek's two PG system. If the Suns keep Knight they need to relieve him of PG duties. I'm not ready to give up on him at his young age.

I'm one of those people who think Knight is plenty old enough to give up on. I think he'd be a black hole as a backup SG. He's dependable in a way, you can depend on him to have lots of TOs and poor shot selection...

Bledsoe, I'd like to have as a backup PG who gets some time at SG under certain conditions

 

[slinslin]

Bledsoe, I'd like to have as a backup PG who gets some time at SG under certain conditions

That is incredible delusional. Bledsoe when healthy is a top 7 PG in the league (backed up by almost any advanced stat RAPM/PET etc), at worst top 10.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm one of those people who think Knight is plenty old enough to give up on. I think he'd be a black hole as a backup SG. He's dependable in a way, you can depend on him to have lots of TOs and poor shot selection...

Bledsoe, I'd like to have as a backup PG who gets some time at SG under certain conditions

Still with the Bledsoe hate? WHY? Where does it come from? Booker is our future star, but Bledsoe is CLEARLY our current one.

 

[overseascardfan]

Still with the Bledsoe hate? WHY? Where does it come from? Booker is our future star, but Bledsoe is CLEARLY our current one.

Bledsoe is the current star when he's on the court which hasn't been much lately. I'm afraid his career will be plagued by injuries.

 

[Chaplin]

Bledsoe is the current star when he's on the court which hasn't been much lately. I'm afraid his career will be plagued by injuries.

That's true, but because of that we can't get another star for him. So I guess the question is why does that matter in this argument? We have to ride our best player for as long as we can, and right now, that player is Bledsoe. Putting him in as a backup PG has nothing to do with his injury history.

 

[slinslin]

All of Bledsoes knee injuries were minor with a more than full recovery expectation and they were on different knees. If they chose agressive treatment he could have been back in 3 weeks each time but they wisely chose conservative treatment that would be beneficial for the long term.

All in all Bledsoe is just about as likely as anyone else to get injured.