Woodley rips on James bettcher

ajcardfan

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Everyone on the team looked bad that night. We played some great games as a team last year. That Carolina game was at team loss that had a magnitude of our best wins but on the bottom half of the graph.

Woodley is doing more harm to himself than he is to Bettcher IMHO
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Good point. I think Bettcher did a very good job last year but is was a rookie DC and it showed at times. I believe with a year under his belt and now a legit pass rush so he doesn't have to expose the D with an inordinate # of blitzes.

I also think that Woodley is a washed up tool that is blaming others for his inability to play at a decent level.

My thoughts too.

We heard more from Woodley in that blip than we did all year on the field. He was awful.
 

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I think Woodley must be mad because apparently Bettcher instructed Woodley to just stand on the field and watch what everyone else is doing. I respect opinions more from players who have impacts and wonder why others don't. Woodley's opinion hasn't been relevant for years.
 

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I had several beefs with Bettcher playcalls during the season and didn't think he was great, but this seems pretty harsh. I'd put more into these comment if it were PP or CC stating this.
 
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BullheadCardFan

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...and that logic is still sound. The entire coaching staff deserves criticism for how that Carolina game went down. That was the most ill-prepared team I have seen under Arians and I expected much, MUCH more with a Super Bowl berth on the line. You can be happy about our season and still be sad and frustrated how it ended.

I don't mind some sour grapes, as long as it has validity. That game did.
Well put.
 

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we all noticed slow and/or missing adjustments in the defense last season. Betch has adjustments to make for sure.... inarguable for a logical person....

any good leader takes feedback from their men...if a guy is telling you he is way more comfortable doing one thing than another...you may want to put him in situations in which he is comfortable more often than not.

From my view...it was not just the Carolina game... the playoffs, all the way through, highlighted a lack of toughness in my opinion,...physical and mental...... even the playoff win was poor....the team appeared ill prepared and way out of focus....we all thought they would be better the next week...but they got worse.. I have no idea what changed to cause all of that.... but the team we fielded in January would have been destroyed by the team we fielded in December........


It was embarrassing...as if,...we have sucked for so long...just making the playoffs is enough.
I for one... never again want to see my team..."Just glad to be here..."
 

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Seeing as Bettcher was not qualified to assume the DC role so early in his coaching career, he did a decent job, all things considered. My worry was and still is that the players take too much autonomy in games when they know their DC is a novice. First year LB coach Larry Foote knows the defense better than Bettcher---and you can be certain---the players know this.

Sometimes i have serious questions BA's "coaching tree" philosophy. I think Todd Bowles was an exception...but i cannot fathom Harold Goodwin or James Bettcher as ever being viable head coaching candidates.

Wade Philips was out there last year---talk about being qualified---and yet BA was content in handing the reins over to Bettcher. It was and still remains a very risky, almost reckless decision, especially for a head coach who wants so badly to win a Super Bowl.

I imagine too that the Bettcher hire is not sitting well with some of the assistant coaches. Promoting the young hot shot over more qualified employees usually leads to internal rifts, diminished morale and potential dysfunction.

I will go out on a limb here and say that I think the three weakest links on the coaching staff are Harold Goodwin, James Bettcher and Amos Jones---the three coordinators---offense, defense and STs. I think they are getting bailed out by the talent that Steve Keim has given them. i still can't believe Jones has the ST job after three years of conspicuously sub-par ST's play.

This, imo, is where a coach's loyalty can be a detriment and a liability.
 

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Seeing as Bettcher was not qualified to assume the DC role so early in his coaching career, he did a decent job, all things considered. My worry was and still is that the players take too much autonomy in games when they know their DC is a novice. First year LB coach Larry Foote knows the defense better than Bettcher---and you can be certain---the players know this.

Sometimes i have serious questions BA's "coaching tree" philosophy. I think Todd Bowles was an exception...but i cannot fathom Harold Goodwin or James Bettcher as ever being viable head coaching candidates.

Wade Philips was out there last year---talk about being qualified---and yet BA was content in handing the reins over to Bettcher. It was and still remains a very risky, almost reckless decision, especially for a head coach who wants so badly to win a Super Bowl.

I imagine too that the Bettcher hire is not sitting well with some of the assistant coaches. Promoting the young hot shot over more qualified employees usually leads to internal rifts, diminished morale and potential dysfunction.

I will go out on a limb here and say that I think the three weakest links on the coaching staff are Harold Goodwin, James Bettcher and Amos Jones---the three coordinators---offense, defense and STs. I think they are getting bailed out by the talent that Steve Keim has given them. i still can't believe Jones has the ST job after three years of conspicuously sub-par ST's play.

This, imo, is where a coach's loyalty can be a detriment and a liability.

I have no idea what's in the minds of players or coaches and can't quite understand why anyone would suggest they do.

What we have is the numbers and Bettcher's first-year efforts were as good as our two previous D-coordinators, who, as we remember, were panned by many when hired.

And, after the HOF Hog, I can't see how anyone can complain about Goodwin's work with the O-line. That he or Bettcher may not be head coaching material is of little relevance to our hopes for the team.

If Bettcher "the unqualified" and Goodwin are two of our "weak links", I'm feeling fairly confident going into this season.

As to Woodley and his all-knowing pronouncements, here's one for the ages:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/28452/woodley-flacco-wont-win-a-super-bowl
 
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TJ

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Seeing as Bettcher was not qualified to assume the DC role so early in his coaching career, he did a decent job, all things considered. My worry was and still is that the players take too much autonomy in games when they know their DC is a novice. First year LB coach Larry Foote knows the defense better than Bettcher---and you can be certain---the players know this.

Sometimes i have serious questions BA's "coaching tree" philosophy. I think Todd Bowles was an exception...but i cannot fathom Harold Goodwin or James Bettcher as ever being viable head coaching candidates.

Wade Philips was out there last year---talk about being qualified---and yet BA was content in handing the reins over to Bettcher. It was and still remains a very risky, almost reckless decision, especially for a head coach who wants so badly to win a Super Bowl.

I imagine too that the Bettcher hire is not sitting well with some of the assistant coaches. Promoting the young hot shot over more qualified employees usually leads to internal rifts, diminished morale and potential dysfunction.

I will go out on a limb here and say that I think the three weakest links on the coaching staff are Harold Goodwin, James Bettcher and Amos Jones---the three coordinators---offense, defense and STs. I think they are getting bailed out by the talent that Steve Keim has given them. i still can't believe Jones has the ST job after three years of conspicuously sub-par ST's play.

This, imo, is where a coach's loyalty can be a detriment and a liability.



And all of this is null-and-void when you look at the rankings in my previous post, which are just as good as Bowles in his first year as DC in AZ with arguably less talent than in 2013.

The results simply don't match your theories. Bettcher, so far, has done a very good job. Most of the naysayers are relying on bias for their opinions. If his name was Horton or Bowles, your statements would be, "damn fine job."
 

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And all of this is null-and-void when you look at the rankings in my previous post, which are just as good as Bowles in his first year as DC in AZ with arguably less talent than in 2013.

The results simply don't match your theories. Bettcher, so far, has done a very good job. Most of the naysayers are relying on bias for their opinions. If his name was Horton or Bowles, your statements would be, "damn fine job."

the results against the best offenses in the league bely the stats you posted. We feasted on a really weak schedule early in the year, but against good teams and offenses, we got TORCHED regularly the second half of the season, giving up 36 and 32 to Seattle, 31 to the Bengals and then a bajillion to Carolina. Those were three of the best offenses in the league and our highly ranked D got gashed pretty damn good against them. That didn't happen to the 2013 team once they got Washington back the last 12 games of the season.

personally... I think he did an okay job, especially for a first year guy, with limited weapons to rush the passer. I wasn't a fan of his inability to adjust gamelans and figure out someway to manufacture a better pass rush, but this year, the proof will be in the pudding. He's got an upgraded pass rush and he's got a year under his belt. This D should be dominant this year with all the talent on it.
 

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I have no idea what's in the minds of players or coaches and can't quite understand why anyone would suggest they do.

What we have is the numbers and Bettcher's first-year efforts were as good as our two previous D-coordinators, who, as we remember, were panned by many when hired.

And, after the HOF Hog, I can't see how anyone can complain about Goodwin's work with the O-line. That he or Bettcher may not be head coaching material is of little relevance to our hopes for the team.

If Bettcher "the unqualified" and Goodwin are two of our "weak links", I'm feeling fairly confident going into this season.

As to Woodley and his all-knowing pronouncements, here's one for the ages:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/28452/woodley-flacco-wont-win-a-super-bowl

I hope you are correct. How great it would be if Bettcher winds up being a stud DC.

While you have a good point about the numbers, I felt Bettcher's blitz schemes were so predictable and poorly executed that after a while he got ultra conservative and even went in the opposite direction by calling a number of 3 man rushes, which in pretty much all the cases did not work.

Adding Dwight Freeney was a boon and it allowed Bettcher to blitz less often.

With exception of Freeney, Mathieu, Jefferson, Golden and Bucannon, I felt like all the rest of the defense was underwhelming and under-achieving. I thought they peaked in the romp over Green Bay which in part was because D.J. Swearinger added some much needed toughness on the back end---but then a week later in the debacle versus Seattle, Bettcher goes back to Rashad Johnson and without the Badger and Swearinger the defense turned soft. Very soft.

Then there was the meltdown on the sidelines in Carolina. It got ugly at the worst time. The defense got picked apart left and right. Aside from Jefferson and Minter, no one seemed to show up.

Sure, people can blame that mostly on the players---but, the coaches deserve their fair share of the responsibility.

BA said after the game that he thought he knew why the team responded so poorly---it would be very interesting to know what BA was thinking.

As for Goodwin---again---the fact is that last year under his watch two 1st round draft pick linemen did not see the field down the stretch. I say again because people are quick to criticize the players, but what about the coaching? There almost always is a shared responsibility when high profile draft picks fail. Goodwin is a hardass screamer and f-bomber---which is great for some, but no so great for others. People say, well this is the NFL---players should be able to take it. But---sometimes the players who have the hardest time coping with a screamer coach are the ones who are hardest on themselves, which makes the pain and embarrassment twice as difficult.

What concerns me most about Goodwin, aside from his "knee deep" persona, it's the way his lines suffer numerous assignment mistakes and miscommunications game after game. To me they do not look like a line that has been well coached. They don't get off the ball properly, they don't sustain blocks, they are penalty prone and they don't react quickly to stunts. I also question the scheme of pulling slow guards versus faster defenses like Carolna's. They start of the NFCCG running pull plays that are slow to develop and so David Johnson has no where to go but laterally where Luke Keuchly and Thomas Davis are there in a flash to hammer. It was is if the Cardinals had no idea who there opponent was, because for most of the game the coaches played right into Caroilna's strengths. It was the most vanilla and ill-conceived game plan of the year.

Why then were the Cardinals still number #1 in yards per game? Big-time talent at the skill positions and a QB who has learned how to get rid of the ball quickly---which he now can do because he's got mismatches galore on every snap. BA is one of the very best ever to coach how to exploit mismatches.

On STs---the Cardinals can't even get a punt returner to even want to return a punt. That in itself should be cause for a change.
 
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TJ

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the results against the best offenses in the league bely the stats you posted. We feasted on a really weak schedule early in the year, but against good teams and offenses, we got TORCHED regularly the second half of the season, giving up 36 and 32 to Seattle, 31 to the Bengals and then a bajillion to Carolina. Those were three of the best offenses in the league and our highly ranked D got gashed pretty damn good against them. That didn't happen to the 2013 team once they got Washington back the last 12 games of the season.

personally... I think he did an okay job, especially for a first year guy, with limited weapons to rush the passer. I wasn't a fan of his inability to adjust gamelans and figure out someway to manufacture a better pass rush, but this year, the proof will be in the pudding. He's got an upgraded pass rush and he's got a year under his belt. This D should be dominant this year with all the talent on it.


I guess by your logic, Seattle's defense is pretty bad, as well.


That is what happens when you play good offenses. We carved up Seattle for 39 points. Green Bay put up 27 as did Cincy. Pittsburgh put up 30 on them. Does that make them a bad defense?
 
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dreamcastrocks

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the results against the best offenses in the league bely the stats you posted. We feasted on a really weak schedule early in the year, but against good teams and offenses, we got TORCHED regularly the second half of the season, giving up 36 and 32 to Seattle, 31 to the Bengals and then a bajillion to Carolina. Those were three of the best offenses in the league and our highly ranked D got gashed pretty damn good against them. That didn't happen to the 2013 team once they got Washington back the last 12 games of the season.

personally... I think he did an okay job, especially for a first year guy, with limited weapons to rush the passer. I wasn't a fan of his inability to adjust gamelans and figure out someway to manufacture a better pass rush, but this year, the proof will be in the pudding. He's got an upgraded pass rush and he's got a year under his belt. This D should be dominant this year with all the talent on it.

+1. Very well said. Especially the last paragraph.
 

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I guess by your logic, Seattle's defense is pretty bad, as well.


That is what happens when you play good offenses. We carved up Seattle for 39 points. Green Bay put up 27 as did Cincy. Pittsburgh put up 30 on them. Does that make them a bad defense?

Excellent point. However, Seattle's defense suffered from Chancellor's holdout and an assortment of injuries to key players, the most costly of which was to Bobby Wagner.

The thing about Seattle is, because of the number of huge contracts they have, their depth is quite thin. This is where we owe a ton of credit to Steve Keim...not only for his work beefing up the roster in the off-season, but the way he makes personnel adjustments during the season, as he did in adding Dwight Freeney, Red Bryant and D.J. Swearinger. The Seahawks sure could have used that trio during their season.

The other thing was that without The Beast Mode, their defense was not getting the typical kind of rest between series that they were accustomed to.

Now, to Russell Wilson's credit, he compensated by carrying the team on his shoulders down the stretch where he played brilliant football.
 

Mitch

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the results against the best offenses in the league bely the stats you posted. We feasted on a really weak schedule early in the year, but against good teams and offenses, we got TORCHED regularly the second half of the season, giving up 36 and 32 to Seattle, 31 to the Bengals and then a bajillion to Carolina. Those were three of the best offenses in the league and our highly ranked D got gashed pretty damn good against them. That didn't happen to the 2013 team once they got Washington back the last 12 games of the season.

personally... I think he did an okay job, especially for a first year guy, with limited weapons to rush the passer. I wasn't a fan of his inability to adjust gamelans and figure out someway to manufacture a better pass rush, but this year, the proof will be in the pudding. He's got an upgraded pass rush and he's got a year under his belt. This D should be dominant this year with all the talent on it.

Excellent point about a lack of and deficiency of in-game adjustments. That's in part a result on inexperience on Bettcher's part---and you really can't blame him for that. Rookie coordinators are always on a sharp learning curve, especially when you are matching wits against the top veteran OC's in the NFL.

One thing the Cardinals' defense missed greatly this year were Todd Bowles' outstanding half-time adjustments. This past year in several of the games the defense came out uncharacteristically flat to start the second half and we all know much BA preaches that the "first five minutes of the second half" will decide the outcome of the game.
 

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I do not want to sanction Lamar Woodley's remarks in any way. He got his name out there. That's enough.
 

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I guess by your logic, Seattle's defense is pretty bad, as well.


That is what happens when you play good offenses. We carved up Seattle for 39 points. Green Bay put up 27 as did Cincy. Pittsburgh put up 30 on them. Does that make them a bad defense?

It makes them open to criticism, that's for sure.
 

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Ok guys our D could not get to the QB consistently with or without Woodley. Our game plan had to be set to try to get anyone to the QB any crazy way we could. We did not have people getting the job done in a straight D set. If you can't get to the QB in today's NFL you're toast. It looks like we should be able to do that with out crazy packages this coming season. I know this. Woodley was not the answer to our troubles.
 

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I guess by your logic, Seattle's defense is pretty bad, as well.

only if my logic was that the Cards was pretty bad... WHICH I NEVER SAID. I just didn't think they were as good as their ranking. And I also thought Seattle's D wasn't at the level of previous years. They were good, but not great.

That is what happens when you play good offenses.

This happens... every time you play good offenses? We gave up an average of 37 POINTS PER GAME against the four highest powered offenses we played. To not be able to contain any of those teams in even ONE game... and not even contain, but hold to their average doesn't speak to their overall ranking, IMO.

We carved up Seattle for 39 points. Green Bay put up 27 as did Cincy. Pittsburgh put up 30 on them. Does that make them a bad defense?

No... and again, I never said WE were a bad defense, so naturally, the Hawks wouldn't be either. However, you also fail to include that they held us to 6 points. So, if you want to throw that averages in there above, and be comprehensive about what their D did against the best offenses in the league, you can include giving up 31 and 27 to Carolina. Now, you add all that up and it comes out their D giving up 27 ppg. against the best O's in the league. So, on average, against the best teams, they held those offenses close to their averages, 27 ppg... which were a full 10 POINTS below what we did against the best in the league.
 

TJ

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only if my logic was that the Cards was pretty bad... WHICH I NEVER SAID. I just didn't think they were as good as their ranking. And I also thought Seattle's D wasn't at the level of previous years. They were good, but not great.

Seattle's D was ranked #1 in the league in PPGA, and they were only "good"? Dude, you need to reevaluate your personal definitions of what "good" and "great" mean.

This happens... every time you play good offenses? We gave up an average of 37 POINTS PER GAME against the four highest powered offenses we played. To not be able to contain any of those teams in even ONE game... and not even contain, but hold to their average doesn't speak to their overall ranking, IMO.

You also take into consideration that in the games you reference (Cincy and Carolina) were also games in which Palmer was turning the ball over at a torrid pace, even throwing multiple Pick 6s. Not exactly putting the defense in a position to succeed.


No... and again, I never said WE were a bad defense, so naturally, the Hawks wouldn't be either. However, you also fail to include that they held us to 6 points. So, if you want to throw that averages in there above, and be comprehensive about what their D did against the best offenses in the league, you can include giving up 31 and 27 to Carolina. Now, you add all that up and it comes out their D giving up 27 ppg. against the best O's in the league. So, on average, against the best teams, they held those offenses close to their averages, 27 ppg... which were a full 10 POINTS below what we did against the best in the league.

Textbook confirmation bias. You're trying to make your argument based off of 4 total games, which isn't even 25% of the season. I don't care that they happen to be against high-powered offenses. Hell, we kept Aaron Rodgers to 14 PPG in 2 games, and one of those touchdowns was on a damn lucky hail mary. Your ultimate judgement comes from a very small window from which you choose to look. The big picture is that roughly 80-90% of the league would gladly trade defensive situations with us, including talent, coaching, etc. Why? Because it was proven effective evidenced by allowing 19.6 PPGA and being a huge catalyst in earning the team a 13-3 record. While I think Betch has some warts, his first season as DC, graded on a curve or not, can only be considered a successful one.

Then again, your judgement tells us that the #1 defense in points allowed last season was only a "good" defense.
 
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Seattle's D was ranked #1 in the league in PPGA, and they were only "good"? Dude, you need to reevaluate your personal definitions of what "good" and "great" mean.



You also take into consideration that in the games you reference (Cincy and Carolina) were also games in which Palmer was turning the ball over at a torrid pace, even throwing multiple Pick 6s. Not exactly putting the defense in a position to succeed.




Textbook confirmation bias. You're trying to make your argument based off of 4 total games, which isn't even 25% of the season. I don't care that they happen to be against high-powered offenses. Hell, we kept Aaron Rodgers to 14 PPG in 2 games, and one of those touchdowns was on a damn lucky hail mary. Your ultimate judgement comes from a very small window from which you choose to look. The big picture is that roughly 80-90% of the league would gladly trade defensive situations with us, including talent, coaching, etc. Why? Because it was proven effective evidenced by allowing 19.6 PPGA and being a huge catalyst in earning the team a 13-3 record. While I think Betch has some warts, his first season as DC, graded on a curve or not, can only be considered a successful one.

Then again, your judgement tells us that the #1 defense in points allowed last season was only a "good" defense.

Since you a) continue to put words in my mouth b) have made up stats about "multiple pick sixes" against Carolina and Cincy and c) think that WOEFUL Packers offense the second half of the season was a high powered one worthy of praise, I'll just now out of this convo now and say okay.
 
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