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Bettcher is 13-3 as a DC
Why does everyone keep bringing up the entire season, when Woodley's criticism is based off of the Carolina game?
Woodley rips on James bettcher
- Thread starter BigRedRage
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Why does everyone keep bringing up the entire season, when Woodley's criticism is based off of the Carolina game?
OP
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So, he knew what he was doing all year and then decided to change everything in the NFC championship game? If he is a terrible coach, wouldnt that reflect on the overall product, not just one game where the entire team was as inept as possible?
Why did his dumb madden coaching philosophy work so well prior to that game?
One game does not define a coach.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I do think the Cardinals not only got outplayed, but were outcoached in that game.
I would love to hear Bettcher's criticism of Woodley. I think he could say a lot worse about Woodley than Woodley could ever say about Bettcher. Woodley looked like he didn't belong on an NFL playing field last year.
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As stated many times, our defense feasted on weak teams the first half of the year and laid goose eggs against the offensive teams in the league. It doesn't make him a bad coach per se. It just makes one of Woodley's criticisms valid.
so,...you are saying Betcher is Barry switzer 2??
Load him up with enough talent and he cant help but win?
I aint hating on the DC but there were many times last season when our defense needed an adjustment and didn't get it. so far betch has shown a lack of flexibility and creativity. The defense is not far from being great...the scheme is really good, the players are loaded with talent...it seamed that a few good adjustments here and there and they could have become great last year.
as far as we know...I guess those adjustments could have been made but the players just didn't pull it off?
I did find it interesting that we let a couple of good ball players walk from our defensive backfield,....but then spent all of our equity on the defensive front seven.........almost like letting those guys walk was a knee jerk reaction to the final game,...then sense kicked in and leaned more towards the trenches for improvement
Really??
Did you watch Les Miles coach against Bama in the National Championship game?
OP
OP
K. Bettcher sucks. That over the hill crappy linebacker is right. Thanks for ruining the whole season bettcher!!!
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Cbus cardsfan
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There's a reason the good offensive teams are good. Look at Seattle, usually considered the top defense in the NFC, when they face a good offense:
GB scored 27 Sea lost
Cincy scored 27 lost
Carolina scored 27 lost
Pittsburgh scored 30 won
Arizona scored 39 lost
Heck, St.Louis averaged 28.5 against them, Sea lost both
Other than the Cards not caring in week 17, good teams averaged 30/game on Seattle.
Woodley is a clown.
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And you can say that Seattle's defense wasn't as good as in the past, and they also failed to make adjustments. Even saying that, Seattle under Pete Carroll hasn't let his team lose by over 30 points either, especially in a playoff game.
Whether Woodley is a clown or not is irrelevant. Even clocks tell the right time twice a day. His point about how the defense didn't make adjustments in the Carolina game are valid no matter what you think of Woodley, or Bettcher, or Arians, or the 2015 season.
To be honest I was worried about Betcher being promoted the second that someone asked Karlos Dansby about his hire, and he was like; Who's that?
The guys literally had to say, ummm, he's been you LB coach for the past year? And Los was like; oh yeah that guy...
That's not exactly a good sign when players dont even recognize the name of their coach.
That aside, there have been good times and bad times, but Woodley blaming the entire Carolina collapse on him is ridiculous. Nobody could cover in that game even Peterson was getting beat and he had one of the greatest seasons for a DB. I think the whole team just crumbled under the pressure, and Carolina is a really good team especially at home.
Still not buying this from Woodley. This sounds like ego and he had an idea for how that game needed to be coached, and Betcher didn't do what he wanted him to do and now he's ripping him in the media, which is super classy. Sounds like a guy defending his lack of production the past couple of years because he still wants to play and is looking for work.
I think Betcher has a lot to learn, I'm still not a big fan of his but I will be interested to see how much he has learned this offseason and if we see him make adjustments this year.
Just because Woodley said it, doesn't make it true.
The guys literally had to say, ummm, he's been you LB coach for the past year? And Los was like; oh yeah that guy...
That's not exactly a good sign when players dont even recognize the name of their coach.
That aside, there have been good times and bad times, but Woodley blaming the entire Carolina collapse on him is ridiculous. Nobody could cover in that game even Peterson was getting beat and he had one of the greatest seasons for a DB. I think the whole team just crumbled under the pressure, and Carolina is a really good team especially at home.
Still not buying this from Woodley. This sounds like ego and he had an idea for how that game needed to be coached, and Betcher didn't do what he wanted him to do and now he's ripping him in the media, which is super classy. Sounds like a guy defending his lack of production the past couple of years because he still wants to play and is looking for work.
I think Betcher has a lot to learn, I'm still not a big fan of his but I will be interested to see how much he has learned this offseason and if we see him make adjustments this year.
Just because Woodley said it, doesn't make it true.
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Dansby played for the Cards in 2013, when Bettcher was outside linebacker coach. Bettcher was named D-C in 2015.
Hummm...
Bettcher is 13-3 as a DC
That's dumb. Are you kidding me? So was Drew Butler.
pinetopred
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What adjustments could he make against the Panthers besides taking a pipe to Palmers knee. It's funny to me that everyone has this idea that you can make adjustments missing arguably your best player and no semblance of a passrush from your base defense, and magically it will work, I'm sure things were tried but sometimes no matter what you do it doesn't work.
I'm actually sick of this argument. I know some of ya'll are knowledgeable but your posts are ignorant as F. It was a complete team collapse, yet nobody wants to blame BA. He's in charge of this team, how it's coached, what is practiced, and the gameplans each week. Ya'll blame the defense...but what's important is that Palmer sucks total ass in big games. He always has and he did it again. He's a total choker. Nobody wants to say that, because it isn't cool, but he's a choker and always has been. Statistics and games prove that, it's not just me talking. In fact, I believe it was K9 if I'm not mistaken, who all year was saying just wait, Palmer will show himself, he can't keep up this level of production. And he couldn't.
This team--team--was totally unprepared to play in the NFC championship. That isn't on Bettcher. Panthers were rolling last year, you can't play poorly on offense, especially. And we sucked. It's an offensive issue if you ask me. If you can't move chains and get first downs and score points, if all you do is turn the ball over, you're going to freaking lose. Every time. As an offense you have to move chains against the Panthers, let Cam sit on the sidelines and sulk, over and over again. The worst thing you can do is put him back in and in again and that's what our offense did.
I seriously doubt Palmer's ability to win a championship. This isn't a Bettcher problem, it's a Palmer problem. He chokes every single time it matters. But only when it matters, the rest of the time he's great. He's not a SB QB. He's just not.
This team--team--was totally unprepared to play in the NFC championship. That isn't on Bettcher. Panthers were rolling last year, you can't play poorly on offense, especially. And we sucked. It's an offensive issue if you ask me. If you can't move chains and get first downs and score points, if all you do is turn the ball over, you're going to freaking lose. Every time. As an offense you have to move chains against the Panthers, let Cam sit on the sidelines and sulk, over and over again. The worst thing you can do is put him back in and in again and that's what our offense did.
I seriously doubt Palmer's ability to win a championship. This isn't a Bettcher problem, it's a Palmer problem. He chokes every single time it matters. But only when it matters, the rest of the time he's great. He's not a SB QB. He's just not.
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You aren't the only one seeing it that way. It was a horrible game for just about everybody associated with the team besides maybe David Johnson.
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You say it was a team collapse but then put it on Palmers shoulders. It was an all around failure and mostly caused by a terrible pass rush and then a depleted secondary without the honey badger against an elite team.
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There is a reason Powers & Rashad weren't re-signed and BASK drafted and signed a ton of UDFA's for the secondary. Yes Chandler and Diche will help a bunch but SK isn't putting all his chips on just upgrading the pass rush.
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At least he was more specific and more professional in his criticism. Given how he didn't adjust in the second half as well as Bowles, and if the NFC Championship gameplan was overly complicated and the defensive results were part of it (as Woodley suggests), there may be cause for concern. Something was wrong given how poorly the DLine was reacting during the first part of the game.
I hope Bettcher improves this year, I hope he is more Todd Bowles than Billy Davis. If he ends up not doing so well, it will be BA's first test on how to handle an underperforming coach (Ignoring ST Coach Amos, who apparently only makes adjustments for the playoffs).
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im a beleiver that overall Woodley might be wrong, but that there might be an element of truth to the idea that they got away from what they did well, or, the plan was too complex-
they sure played in a way that wasnt recognizable
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It was nice to read true criticism instead of just saying his coach was stupid.
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
The person most responsible for this backlash on Bettcher is Bruce Arians.
We saw the games---we know---half-time adjustments were not even close to being as good and smart as what we saw from Todd Bowles.
We saw the Championship game---it got so ugly on defense that there were fights on the sidelines. Clearly, the defense looked like it was thinking too much, which, of course, causes hesitation, which causes missed tackles, coverages and mixups...all of which characterized the defense's play in that game.
I will say this again---James Bettcher was not qualified at this point in his young career to be an NFL defensive coordinator.
The players know this and they know it well.
It's like Malcolm Gladwell's the 10,000 hour rule---there were players in Bettcher's defense like Woodley who know the 34 defense better than Bettcher does. They know good adjustments when they see them.
Heck, first year ILB coach Larry Foote knows more about the 34 defense than Bettcher. He's had more than 10,000 hours playing in it at a position where he is the quarterback of sorts.
That said, Bettcher did a lot of things right in helping the team go 13-2. One thing about the Cardinals under BA is that the players take ownership of their play on the field---and the defense did its part until the last game of the regular season and then in its letting Green Bay back into the game (t be fair, BA called the full house blitz and Bettcher wanted a prevent) and then in matching the offense's woeful effort in the NFC Championship game.
The playoff are a different animal---and this is where coaching has to be at its very best.
LaMarr Woodley does not strike me as having sour grapes---he strikes me as being very invested in the Cardinals and their plight to win the Super Bowl. Woodley was injured and not even playing late in the year. I actually think that it's commendable how invested he remained in the team's performance, despite landing on the IR.
Now---he didn't have to go and call Bettcher "dumb." That was taking it too far. Bettcher wasn't being dumb, he was being what he is, inexperienced.
Woodley sincerely believes the Cardinals had a great chance to win the Super Bowl and he's frustrated that heading into the Carolina game Bettcher came up with a complicated game plan which strayed away from what the defense did best, that caused the players to think too much rather than play fast---and that when the players were trying to beg for adjustments especially at half-time, the players were not heeded.
What Bettcher did was something a lot of inexperienced coaches do---they try to do too much or they try to make changes instead of doing what the defense does best and trying to do it even better. It's a classic sign of inexperience.
Look---it isn't some wild coincidence that the last three Super Bowl winners had defenses run by Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick and Wade Phillips, 3 of the longest tenured, most successful defensive coaches of the modern era.
When you want to make a Super Bowl run, you have to beat coaches like these.
It would have been one thing if BA was a defensive guru and he was coordinating the defense---appointing an apprentice like Bettcher would be fine.
But, BA needs to be able to rely heavily on his defensive coordinator---and he was able to do that with Todd Bowles. But, quite honestly, one can't really take BA's rhetoric about winning a Super Bowl seriously, if he appoints a rookie DC who has no DC experience---it's just folly to think someone with that little experience could step in and take proper command and make consistently good, smart preparations and adjustments. There HAS to be a learning curve with a DC this young and inexperienced.
I get the impression that BA hired Bettcher because he wished that someone would have entrusted him as an offensive coordinator early in his NFL career.
But, what BA should have recognized is that the Colts, with a defensive oriented HC in Chuck Pagano would have never made the playoffs in Pagano's rookie season had he not hired the experienced Bruce Arians to run his offense. Had Pagano put the offense in the hands of someone who has never called a play in an NFL game before, how would the Colts have done?
The question is---what kind of adjustments have BA and Bettcher made this off-season to help Bettcher be able to match wits with the top coordinators and HCs in the league---and---can Bettcher learn on the job quickly enough?
We saw the games---we know---half-time adjustments were not even close to being as good and smart as what we saw from Todd Bowles.
We saw the Championship game---it got so ugly on defense that there were fights on the sidelines. Clearly, the defense looked like it was thinking too much, which, of course, causes hesitation, which causes missed tackles, coverages and mixups...all of which characterized the defense's play in that game.
I will say this again---James Bettcher was not qualified at this point in his young career to be an NFL defensive coordinator.
The players know this and they know it well.
It's like Malcolm Gladwell's the 10,000 hour rule---there were players in Bettcher's defense like Woodley who know the 34 defense better than Bettcher does. They know good adjustments when they see them.
Heck, first year ILB coach Larry Foote knows more about the 34 defense than Bettcher. He's had more than 10,000 hours playing in it at a position where he is the quarterback of sorts.
That said, Bettcher did a lot of things right in helping the team go 13-2. One thing about the Cardinals under BA is that the players take ownership of their play on the field---and the defense did its part until the last game of the regular season and then in its letting Green Bay back into the game (t be fair, BA called the full house blitz and Bettcher wanted a prevent) and then in matching the offense's woeful effort in the NFC Championship game.
The playoff are a different animal---and this is where coaching has to be at its very best.
LaMarr Woodley does not strike me as having sour grapes---he strikes me as being very invested in the Cardinals and their plight to win the Super Bowl. Woodley was injured and not even playing late in the year. I actually think that it's commendable how invested he remained in the team's performance, despite landing on the IR.
Now---he didn't have to go and call Bettcher "dumb." That was taking it too far. Bettcher wasn't being dumb, he was being what he is, inexperienced.
Woodley sincerely believes the Cardinals had a great chance to win the Super Bowl and he's frustrated that heading into the Carolina game Bettcher came up with a complicated game plan which strayed away from what the defense did best, that caused the players to think too much rather than play fast---and that when the players were trying to beg for adjustments especially at half-time, the players were not heeded.
What Bettcher did was something a lot of inexperienced coaches do---they try to do too much or they try to make changes instead of doing what the defense does best and trying to do it even better. It's a classic sign of inexperience.
Look---it isn't some wild coincidence that the last three Super Bowl winners had defenses run by Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick and Wade Phillips, 3 of the longest tenured, most successful defensive coaches of the modern era.
When you want to make a Super Bowl run, you have to beat coaches like these.
It would have been one thing if BA was a defensive guru and he was coordinating the defense---appointing an apprentice like Bettcher would be fine.
But, BA needs to be able to rely heavily on his defensive coordinator---and he was able to do that with Todd Bowles. But, quite honestly, one can't really take BA's rhetoric about winning a Super Bowl seriously, if he appoints a rookie DC who has no DC experience---it's just folly to think someone with that little experience could step in and take proper command and make consistently good, smart preparations and adjustments. There HAS to be a learning curve with a DC this young and inexperienced.
I get the impression that BA hired Bettcher because he wished that someone would have entrusted him as an offensive coordinator early in his NFL career.
But, what BA should have recognized is that the Colts, with a defensive oriented HC in Chuck Pagano would have never made the playoffs in Pagano's rookie season had he not hired the experienced Bruce Arians to run his offense. Had Pagano put the offense in the hands of someone who has never called a play in an NFL game before, how would the Colts have done?
The question is---what kind of adjustments have BA and Bettcher made this off-season to help Bettcher be able to match wits with the top coordinators and HCs in the league---and---can Bettcher learn on the job quickly enough?
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