Would you pay Kyler 45 mil if this is (basically) his peak?

[DVontel]

I think the “hamstringing the cap” reasoning is hilarious because what do you really expect Keim to do with the cap? Lmao.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The alternative is to pay him what is on his contract for a year and see how he is then. Yes, he'll be upset, and will threaten to hold out, blah blah blah, then he'll return to the team and we'll see how he reacts to this kind of adversity.

Pretending like it's pay him RIGHT NOW or we lose him is just out of touch with reality. Kid ain't sitting out a season.

That's just not how QB extensions work anymore.

Also, if we want to continue to turn this place to a free agent destination, you can't stiff your franchise QB. What does that say to the rest of the players on the team, or in the league?

 

[gmabel830]

This is John Navarre erasure.

Stoney Case feels slighted in this conversation

 

[Cardsfan77]

That's just not how QB extensions work anymore.

Also, if we want to continue to turn this place to a free agent destination, you can't stiff your franchise QB. What does that say to the rest of the players on the team, or in the league?

Most quality FAs will chase the money, it’s often the older washed up ones that are chasing rings.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Most quality FAs will chase the money, it’s often the older washed up ones that are chasing rings.

Again, if the Cards can't pay their most important and most expensive player, what hope is there for anyone else we want to join our team?

 

[Stout]

That's just not how QB extensions work anymore.

Also, if we want to continue to turn this place to a free agent destination, you can't stiff your franchise QB. What does that say to the rest of the players on the team, or in the league?

Again with the false equivalencies. Not wanting to extend him now isn't "stiffing" him. This implies some kind of entitlement, which isn't there. Signing him after next season--or not, if he can't improve--isn't "stiffing him." He's won exactly no playoff games, nor clinching games, and has shown no leadership or gumption in those games. Waiting a year protects the team, and, hey, if he's confident in himself, will make that contract all the bigger.

On the opposite side is the possibility you break the bank for the kid and are stuck under a 6-year contract with a stats monster head case who can never win jack. I hope that's not the way it goes, but it's possible. I know which approach I'd want to take to mitigate that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Again with the false equivalencies. Not wanting to extend him now isn't "stiffing" him. This implies some kind of entitlement, which isn't there. Signing him after next season--or not, if he can't improve--isn't "stiffing him." He's won exactly no playoff games, nor clinching games, and has shown no leadership or gumption in those games. Waiting a year protects the team, and, hey, if he's confident in himself, will make that contract all the bigger.

On the opposite side is the possibility you break the bank for the kid and are stuck under a 6-year contract with a stats monster head case who can never win jack. I hope that's not the way it goes, but it's possible. I know which approach I'd want to take to mitigate that.

Maybe to you. The Cards have already made a mistake by not re-signing them early in the offseason, costing 10s of millions of dollars. Barring a catastrophic injury, the price is going to continually go up. Waiting another or two will cost us the ability to sign free agents in the future that we desperately need. That isn't entitlement or an opinion, it is a fact.

 

[Cardinal88]

Aside from Rodgers or Brady, the rest of the “best” QBs is subjective. I work with numbers so you can change the narrative.

The bottom line is KM is a great passer, electric and he can win. Sure he is short and needs some growing up to do. I don’t recall one of his current or past teammates ever criticized his ability. I’m going to trust them.

Our biggest problems are we haven’t drafted enough talent or coaches can’t develop the talent to be molded into a pro bowl player. We rely to heavily on aging free agents that wards the end of their career and have to over pay them.

Doesn’t mean KM should give us a discount to help a dynasty but he is worth the top end market!

 

[Stout]

Maybe to you. The Cards have already made a mistake by not re-signing them early in the offseason, costing 10s of millions of dollars. Barring a catastrophic injury, the price is going to continually go up. Waiting another or two will cost us the ability to sign free agents in the future that we desperately need. That isn't entitlement or an opinion, it is a fact.

You mean they made a mistake by not doing something that's literally not been done before? Talk about trying to narrow the argument!

Let me ask you this, and please give an honest, direct answer: What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

 

[Stout]

Aside from Rodgers or Brady, the rest of the “best” QBs is subjective. I work with numbers so you can change the narrative.

The bottom line is KM is a great passer, electric and he can win meaningless games, but not clinching or playoff games. Sure he is short and needs some growing up to do. I don’t recall one of his current or past teammates ever criticized his ability. I’m going to trust them.

Our biggest problems are we haven’t drafted enough talent or coaches can’t develop the talent to be molded into a pro bowl player. We rely to heavily on aging free agents that wards the end of their career and have to over pay them.

Doesn’t mean KM should give us a discount to help a dynasty but he is worth the top end market!

FTFY. There's no working with those numbers at this point. Those numbers don't lie.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You mean they made a mistake by not doing something that's literally not been done before? Talk about trying to narrow the argument!

Let me ask you this, and please give an honest, direct answer: What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

Keim himself said it is not the 'normal schedule' to re-sign players at the beginning of the offseason. Not that it hasn't been done before.

If he doesn't make improvements, he is still a top 10 QB. These don't grow on trees.

 

[kerouac9]

You mean they made a mistake by not doing something that's literally not been done before? Talk about trying to narrow the argument!

Let me ask you this, and please give an honest, direct answer: What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

You didn't ask me, but I'll take a shot at this: You have to alter your other investments on that side of the ball to overpay a charismatic leader who can take control of the emotional core of the offense and, if it comes to that, discipline the QB.

This rarely happens in the NFL, but it rarely needs to. You have to have an All-Pro at the position to make it relevant. Unfortunately, Keim doesn't really draft those guys.

Kyler couldn't deal with a successful alpha on his way out the door in Larry Fitzgerald; it would be interesting to see what would/will happen when his teammates don't baby him.

 

[AustrianCardFan]

Let me ask you this, and please give an honest, direct answer: What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

The Rams found a way to get rid of Goff with his horrible contract, Kirk Cousins still gets paid seemingly every 2 years. Even if Kyler's production stays the same, I am almost certain that there will be desperate organizations that will be more than willing to pay the price...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You didn't ask me, but I'll take a shot at this: You have to alter your other investments on that side of the ball to overpay a charismatic leader who can take control of the emotional core of the offense and, if it comes to that, discipline the QB.

This rarely happens in the NFL, but it rarely needs to. You have to have an All-Pro at the position to make it relevant. Unfortunately, Keim doesn't really draft those guys.

Kyler couldn't deal with a successful alpha on his way out the door in Larry Fitzgerald; it would be interesting to see what would/will happen when his teammates don't baby him.

Something again that is pure conjecture.

 

[Stout]

The Rams found a way to get rid of Goff with his horrible contract, Kirk Cousins still gets paid seemingly every 2 years. Even if Kyler's production stays the same, I am almost certain that there will be desperate organizations that will be more than willing to pay the price...

That is a well-stated position.

 

[Stout]

Keim himself said it is not the 'normal schedule' to re-sign players at the beginning of the offseason. Not that it hasn't been done before.

If he doesn't make improvements, he is still a top 10 QB. These don't grow on trees.

So you don't want to answer? Okay.

It has been done, I think, only twice in league history. Certainly not the horrible thing you made it out to be to NOT do so.

 

[kerouac9]

Something again that is pure conjecture.

It's not pure conjecture. There's a lot of smoke there for there being absolutely no fire. People didn't make up the reports.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It's not pure conjecture. There's a lot of smoke there for there being absolutely no fire. People didn't make up the reports.

And yet Larry openly refuted it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So you don't want to answer? Okay.

It has been done, I think, only twice in league history. Certainly not the horrible thing you made it out to be to NOT do so.

I did answer.

What do you want me to answer that I haven't already said multiple times?

 

[kerouac9]

And yet Larry openly refuted it.

So your contention is that reporters are making up the story because the AZ Cardinals' beat is so hot they have to feed the insatiable content monster? C'mon.

EDIT: https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...rald-addresses-kyler-murray-rumor/9359455002/

In that long summary of the saga, what Fitz is actually disagreeing with is the statement that he retired because of Kyler. I 100% agree with this, but it's deranged to think that Greg Jennings fabricated a story about Kyler Murray and Larry Fitzgerald from whole cloth.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I definitely would.

Here are 10 reasons

1. Josh Rosen
2. Matt Leinart
3. Derek Anderson
4. Max Hall
5. John Skelton
6. Timm Rosenbach
7. Jeff Blake
8. Jake Plummer
9. Sam Bradford
10. Kevin Kolb

People act like we could just swoop up a better franchise QB if we let Kyler go. History strongly suggests we can't.

Pay the man and put a real team around him.

Jake Plummer does not belong on that list (come on, takes the Cardinals to the playoffs and beats the Cowboys, and then one can say also was pretty solid if not good with the Broncos), and I would probably not put Timm Rosenbach on there (guy was really talented and never had a chance due to some freak injury, and if I remember correctly there was then serious friction between the front office and him regarding how the Cardinals handled that, so not to blame for what he could have become)... as pointed out, I would replace with John Navarre and Stoney Case lol

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So your contention is that reporters are making up the story because the AZ Cardinals' beat is so hot they have to feed the insatiable content monster? C'mon.

EDIT: https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...rald-addresses-kyler-murray-rumor/9359455002/

In that long summary of the saga, what Fitz is actually disagreeing with is the statement that he retired because of Kyler. I 100% agree with this, but it's deranged to think that Greg Jennings fabricated a story about Kyler Murray and Larry Fitzgerald from whole cloth.

I guess I do. In order to refute it, you have to refute Larry's claim directly, which I'm not inclined to do at this time.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Jake Plummer does not belong on that list (come on, takes the Cardinals to the playoffs and beats the Cowboys, and then one can say also was pretty solid if not good with the Broncos), and I would probably not put Timm Rosenbach on there (guy was really talented and never had a chance due to some freak injury, and if I remember correctly there was then serious friction between the front office and him regarding how the Cardinals handled that, so not to blame for what he could have become)... as pointed out, I would replace with John Navarre and Stoney Case lol

Jake was a bad QB that won one a playoff game. Tebow did too.

 

[Stout]

I did answer.

What do you want me to answer that I haven't already said multiple times?

What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

What, he'd still be top 10 is the answer? That's like saying, in response to the Titanic sinking under you, "It's still a nice ship."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What do we do if we give him that big-money deal and he doesn't make the improvements he needs to make? And a follow up question: What kind of damage control can we do then?

What, he'd still be top 10 is the answer? That's like saying, in response to the Titanic sinking under you, "It's still a nice ship."

He is worth the price now, even if he doesn't improve at all. Of course we all want to see improvement.

Kyler not improving anymore doesn't equate to the Titanic and I know you know that.