Would you trade for Stefon Diggs?

[Solar7]

You can expect possibly 3 starters from the money put aside for the rookies. Certainly two min.

They there are RFA and ERFAs to sign that won't cost much.

Its possible. We won't fill every position with a quality guy but we should improve.

The draft is the key. We have to hit on 3 quality guys.

Uh, not in this situation - we're trading away our 1st or 2nd round pick per your proposal. Unless you think we're gonna snag a starter into the 4th? Mason Cole has been the only day one starting 3rd round pick in Keim's history, and that's only because Shipley tore his ACL.

There's really only two RFAs and ERFAs to be signed in Murray and Gonzalez, but they'll eat up about a mil each at least.

It's a major squeeze on this roster.

 

[Solar7]

You dont think its possible that there is also growth from players on the roster?

From who? Zach Allen? We might be counting on him anyways, but do you really feel comfortable trotting him out there as the unquestioned starter? I mean, if you're stumping to acquire Diggs, clearly you don't trust it to be one of the young WRs, and they were 3 picks of our total draft last year, so that leaves what? Dogbe? Trust Miles to be our RT?

There's no one left but Mason Cole and Chase Edmonds from the 2018 draft to take up a starting spot, and we might get Cole by default. Most here want Drake and don't see Edmonds as a starter.

From 2017, we have Haason Reddick who could improve. And that's laughable. Otherwise that draft is gone. And there's no one else on the roster that's young.

So, no, I really don't see growth from players on the roster who aren't already starters in their respective positions. Maybe Cole, maybe Allen, but I don't trust either to be our unquestioned starters with no competition, that's for sure.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

AQ Shipley isn't very good and was under a contract where he could have easily been benched without too much concern. He also didn't have the excuses of knowing the offense like the back of his hand or having the loyalty of the coaches, ala Arians, and he was returning from a torn ACL.

In my mind, pretty much all of that is a really bad indictment of Cole's inability to keep the spot.

That's why I don't consider this an "upgrade," just like I don't consider signing or drafting multiple DEs over Zach Allen to be an "upgrade." The guys functionally didn't play their position. An upgrade is signing someone you like more than Sweezy, Hooper to push Maxx Williams down the depth chart, or replacing the Thompson Twins with a high-paid FA safety.

But in an offense where you play 3 wrs the majority of the time signing or trading for a player to play over a Byrd/Isabella/whoever is different? I’d say getting a center over cole is less of an upgrade than a diggs over our dreck of wrs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Counting on restructuring Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson (and really, extend David Johnson?) to prevent this team from being the same 5-11-1 2019 team plus Diggs and maybe what, Vic Beasley and a few rookies, sounds like a team that's going to go 6-10 to me.

That sounds like a "situation."

A Beasley and diggs addition is pretty major. Plus whatever the draft brings. And whatever maturation the young players in the team make and whatever growth Kk acquires after his rookie nfl season. I think you way discount the potential leap this team could take as a result of those elements.

 

[Krangodnzr]

From who? Zach Allen? We might be counting on him anyways, but do you really feel comfortable trotting him out there as the unquestioned starter? I mean, if you're stumping to acquire Diggs, clearly you don't trust it to be one of the young WRs, and they were 3 picks of our total draft last year, so that leaves what? Dogbe? Trust Miles to be our RT?

There's no one left but Mason Cole and Chase Edmonds from the 2018 draft to take up a starting spot, and we might get Cole by default. Most here want Drake and don't see Edmonds as a starter.

From 2017, we have Haason Reddick who could improve. And that's laughable. Otherwise that draft is gone. And there's no one else on the roster that's young.

So, no, I really don't see growth from players on the roster who aren't already starters in their respective positions. Maybe Cole, maybe Allen, but I don't trust either to be our unquestioned starters with no competition, that's for sure.

You're just being pessimistic.

Murray for one. Humphries. Kirk. Isabella. Baker. I could go on and on.

Young players typically get a little bit better at a minimum.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You can expect possibly 3 starters from the money put aside for the rookies. Certainly two min.

They there are RFA and ERFAs to sign that won't cost much.

Its possible. We won't fill every position with a quality guy but we should improve.

The draft is the key. We have to hit on 3 quality guys.

Under bluto that’s not likely.

 

[BritCard]

Have we been averaging 3 starters per draft? I doubt it.

We had several last year.

Uh, not in this situation - we're trading away our 1st or 2nd round pick per your proposal. Unless you think we're gonna snag a starter into the 4th? Mason Cole has been the only day one starting 3rd round pick in Keim's history, and that's only because Shipley tore his ACL.

There's really only two RFAs and ERFAs to be signed in Murray and Gonzalez, but they'll eat up about a mil each at least.

It's a major squeeze on this roster.

Mate your arguing about cap space and value when Diggs would be extreme value.

The trade would give us the best value non rookie WR contract in the league.

He'd cost less than Fitz. He would replace Fitz next year for less money with more production.

Its an absolute no brainer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wasn't trying to directly compare players as much as show that good players go to other teams and completely flop. There are countless examples of this.

I’m game, name me five players who were in their prime that moved to another team and performed as poorly as Bryant Johnson.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

From who? Zach Allen? We might be counting on him anyways, but do you really feel comfortable trotting him out there as the unquestioned starter? I mean, if you're stumping to acquire Diggs, clearly you don't trust it to be one of the young WRs, and they were 3 picks of our total draft last year, so that leaves what? Dogbe? Trust Miles to be our RT?

There's no one left but Mason Cole and Chase Edmonds from the 2018 draft to take up a starting spot, and we might get Cole by default. Most here want Drake and don't see Edmonds as a starter.

From 2017, we have Haason Reddick who could improve. And that's laughable. Otherwise that draft is gone. And there's no one else on the roster that's young.

So, no, I really don't see growth from players on the roster who aren't already starters in their respective positions. Maybe Cole, maybe Allen, but I don't trust either to be our unquestioned starters with no competition, that's for sure.

Growth from players who are already starters or see time impacts winning. Doesn’t need to be growth in one of the starting spots. The Thompson’s, baker can still improve, kylers improvement, Cole, Allen, Kevin Peterson, any of the wrs including Kirk, dan Arnold, miles, dogbe, Murphy. Any growth by any of these improves the team.

 

[Veer]

I like Diggs as a WR, but not for us. He isn't a RAC guy you want in a KK offense. He is a polished route runner for a sophisticated downfield attack, which we aren't by any means.

 

[Jetstream Green]

AQ Shipley isn't very good and was under a contract where he could have easily been benched without too much concern. He also didn't have the excuses of knowing the offense like the back of his hand or having the loyalty of the coaches, ala Arians, and he was returning from a torn ACL.

In my mind, pretty much all of that is a really bad indictment of Cole's inability to keep the spot.

That's why I don't consider this an "upgrade," just like I don't consider signing or drafting multiple DEs over Zach Allen to be an "upgrade." The guys functionally didn't play their position. An upgrade is signing someone you like more than Sweezy, Hooper to push Maxx Williams down the depth chart, or replacing the Thompson Twins with a high-paid FA safety.

I really do not like Shipley either, I simply think he does not have enough strength at the point of attack, but it appears two coaching staffs and his fellow players say you and I are wrong... sometimes it's a reminder to check ourselves a bit

 

[BritCard]

I like Diggs as a WR, but not for us. He isn't a RAC guy you want in a KK offense. He is a polished route runner for a sophisticated downfield attack, which we aren't by any means.

Diggs had the same YAC per reception than Fitz and more than every other receiver on the roster.

 

[Solar7]

But in an offense where you play 3 wrs the majority of the time signing or trading for a player to play over a Byrd/Isabella/whoever is different? I’d say getting a center over cole is less of an upgrade than a diggs over our dreck of wrs.

Trust me, I'm not against upgrading at WR. Our young guys suck. But I'm not willing to give up a top pick and the contract. It's too much for a guy who is good but has never truly dominated. If this were AJ Green and it was nothing but the contract, or CeeDee Lamb and nothing but the pick, I might have some pause, but you could convince me.

A Beasley and diggs addition is pretty major. Plus whatever the draft brings. And whatever maturation the young players in the team make and whatever growth Kk acquires after his rookie nfl season. I think you way discount the potential leap this team could take as a result of those elements.

It still doesn't account for the fact we need to add players to the roster to field a team. We can't just not fill those big empty white spaces. This team will be even less talented than last year if we don't.

You're just being pessimistic.

Murray for one. Humphries. Kirk. Isabella. Baker. I could go on and on.

Young players typically get a little bit better at a minimum.

I'm not talking about the players who are already starters at their positions. I'm talking about filling up the empty spaces where we have NO starters. Murray getting better does not mean he can play ILB or OLB. Humphries getting better does not make Michael Dogbe a starting NFL DE. Like, it doesn't matter. I'm talking about the ability to fill these holes.

Breaking this up into separate posts.

 

[Solar7]

We had several last year.

Uh, no we didn't? Unless you're counting one or two throwaway games due to injury, but that's not "drafting a starter." Only Kyler and Byron Murphy were actual locked in starters.

Mate your arguing about cap space and value when Diggs would be extreme value.

The trade would give us the best value non rookie WR contract in the league.

He'd cost less than Fitz. He would replace Fitz next year for less money with more production.

Its an absolute no brainer.

It's not a no-brainer. He's A) not that good, and B) cap space is important. You just threw a fit about paying DJ Humphries for the past month, this is much worse. The team does not have the space to do this. Again, the rest of the roster is completely barren. This is a car missing a ton of parts and you want to buy racing tires.

Growth from players who are already starters or see time impacts winning. Doesn’t need to be growth in one of the starting spots. The Thompson’s, baker can still improve, kylers improvement, Cole, Allen, Kevin Peterson, any of the wrs including Kirk, dan Arnold, miles, dogbe, Murphy. Any growth by any of these improves the team.

Growth is important, yes, but you have to have players to play the other positions on the field. I already said it to Krang in the last post. None of those guys play ILB or OLB. Counting on Dogbe for anything is ridiculous. Kevin Peterson isn't even on the roster as far as I can see from any site. I'm all for saying "our guys will mature," but you still have to field a team.

You're talking about putting XFL tier guys in those starting spots at this point, all for a WR who has never broken 1200 yards and 10 TDs.

 

[Solar7]

I really do not like Shipley either, I simply think he does not have enough strength at the point of attack, but it appears two coaching staffs and his fellow players say you and I are wrong... sometimes it's a reminder to check ourselves a bit

Shipley was good enough to be a backup for the Colts under Arians and then still get replaced by Lyle Sendlein when he came over. I don't think it's that Shipley is way good, I think it's that Cole just isn't getting it.

 

[Solar7]

And let me just say, we're going round and round on this one. I don't see a point where we're going to change each others' minds. This is just one of the ones where I feel like everyone is taking crazy pills on roster construction again... but the same could be said across so many different ideas here, like re-signing Drake, drafting Okudah if he's there...

I think as fans, a lot of us get wrapped up in this worst to first thing - especially since we've been so bad for so many years now - and are desperately looking for ideas of how we can right the ship overnight. I don't trust this GM or coach, and I think our division is leaps and bounds more talented than us, so all of my moves are with the mindset of "how can we build the most stable roster to last us a couple of years and take advantage of declines in our opponents?"

 

[Chopper0080]

Counting on restructuring Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson (and really, extend David Johnson?) to prevent this team from being the same 5-11-1 2019 team plus Diggs and maybe what, Vic Beasley and a few rookies, sounds like a team that's going to go 6-10 to me.

That sounds like a "situation."

You can grump about it or you can acknowledged facts like Kent Somers did that the Cards can easily create cap space. You said signing Diggs would prevent us from signing other players...it wont.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

You can grump about it or you can acknowledged facts like Kent Somers did that the Cards can easily create cap space. You said signing Diggs would prevent us from signing other players...it wont.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Creating cap space essentially means pushing off our problems to another year to win now. It's not time for that. Diggs isn't that good. And you're talking about giving up our 1st or 2nd round pick for a guy who is a known malcontent and whiner on the sideline.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Shipley was good enough to be a backup for the Colts under Arians and then still get replaced by Lyle Sendlein when he came over. I don't think it's that Shipley is way good, I think it's that Cole just isn't getting it.

A bit of a tangent, but I don’t think this is about either Shipley or Cole. Yes, Cole can be a decent starting C and did so admirably his rookie year. However, I believe the Cards view him as their Swiss Army knife who is more valuable filling in multiple interior spots when starters are hurt.

If I had to guess, Gaillard is the one they’re targeting to start this season at C if Shipley’s price doesn’t drop. Lamont started multiple years for a dominant Georgia team in the SEC and faired extremely well against the likes of Quinnen Williams. Dude is a fist fight waiting to happen. I trust Kugler if he thinks that we can let Shipley walk. Rather do that than spend $2-4mm/yr on Shipley or the $8-9/yr on someone like McGovern.

I honestly believe we will stick with Murray at RT, draft OL later, and strengthen the skill positions (WR/TE) and the front 7.

 

[Solar7]

A bit of a tangent, but I don’t think this is about either Shipley or Cole. Yes, Cole can be a decent starting C and did so admirably his rookie year. However, I believe the Cards view him more as their Swiss Army knife who is more valuable filling in multiple interior spots when starters are hurt.

If I had to guess, Gaillard is the one they’re targeting to start this season at C if Shipley’s price doesn’t drop. Lamont started multiple years for a dominant Georgia team in the SEC and faired extremely well against the likes of Quinnen Williams. Dude is a fist fight waiting to happen. I trust Kugler if he thinks that we can let Shipley walk. Rather do that than spend $2-4mm/yr on Shipley or the $8-9/yr on someone like McGovern.

I honestly believe we will stick with Murray at RT, draft OL later, and strengthen the skill positions (WR/TE) and the front 7.

Man, if you guys think I'm pessimistic now, just wait until Keim and Kliff come out and proclaim a 6th round pick that has never taken a snap the starter. And yes, I am aware it happens sometimes, but... woof. Oh, and bringing back the same OL. I would also laugh at it.

We'll see where it goes. No reason to panic about the OL until the end of April.

 

[AZCrazy]

O Line wasn't a big weakness last year. They weren't the best in the league, but not anything close to as awful as some seasons have been, like two years ago when all five starters were down for the season.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Man, if you guys think I'm pessimistic now, just wait until Keim and Kliff come out and proclaim a 6th round pick that has never taken a snap the starter. And yes, I am aware it happens sometimes, but... woof. Oh, and bringing back the same OL. I would also laugh at it.

We'll see where it goes. No reason to panic about the OL until the end of April.

The shtick of how you are always 'public enemy number one" and "I don't mean to but" lol

 

[Solar7]

O Line wasn't a big weakness last year. They weren't the best in the league, but not anything close to as awful as some seasons have been, like two years ago when all five starters were down for the season.

Kyler saved them in pass pro. They just don't pass the eye test for me. Looked about as bad as Rosen had, but Kyler has wheels.

 

[Waysouth]

CBS sports has a new mock draft with the Jets trading up to the Cards #8 for #11 and a 3rd. If you could take Wirfs @ 11 and trade the 3rd for Diggs might be a win for the Cards.

 

[Jetstream Green]

CBS sports has a new mock draft with the Jets trading up to the Cards #8 for #11 and a 3rd. If you could take Wirfs @ 11 and trade the 3rd for Diggs might be a win for the Cards.

It would take more than a third for me to allow them to move up in the top ten