Zac Allen and Byron Murphy are free agents

[football karma]

when you get to this point, the odds say they are headed elsewhere

its a darn shame --

Zach is a good, but ascending player. He has an injury history, but someone with cap space to burn will take the option on him that his best football is ahead of him and that his injuries were just some bad luck.

Murphy is tougher. Prior to this season, i think we would have ranked Murphy higher in priority than Zach. Murphy would be a solid #2 CB -- I think the 9 week back injury really brings his value into question. Sprained ankles (as an example) teams can get comfortable with -- back injuries dont manifest in a physical exam and can pop back up without warning.

 

[BritCard]

Carrying on with the same old would be allowing our young talented draft picks to walk without resigning them.

Like who? Like Budda? Badger? Hump? JT? DJ?

The only guy I can think of who fits that bill is Reddick. My recollection is that he took less money to go to Carolina than the Cardinals offered him to stay because he wanted a change of scene. Kirk doesn't count, nobody here wanting to resign him for close to that money.

 

[BritCard]

Geno Smith?

Daniel Jones?

Man you got me, 2 QB's that just signed in the last 48 hours. Completely invalidates my point...

Just 693 to go.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The NFL has done such great work in creating real parity in its league.

 

[PJ1]

Why the surprise? The tag for both of them was way too much money.

Like 6 players got tagged and they are either all stars at their position and/or the tag is value for their level of performance. You only get franchise tagged if the tag is what you would be paid anyway and neither Allen or Murphy are close.

Also, can we stop this fantasy every year that the Cards haven't tried to re-sign them or they haven't offered enough money or they don't want to be here?

Apparently both players are happy here and would like to stay. We know that Allen at least has had an offer, Mike said in a recent interview they want him to stay and have been working on a deal. I'm sure Murphy does too. But here's the important bit...

Who here wouldn't test free agency just to see what the options are? You have an offer in hand from your team as a backup at the very least. Who wouldn't take a few days to see if someone might blow you away? Or at least give you a little bit of bargaining power to eek out a bit more from your current team? This is even more so for players hitting FA for the first time.

It's absolutely basic stuff. It's why of the 695 players set to hit FA next week none of them have resigned with their teams. Not a single one. Not the Bills, not the Eagles, not the Chiefs, not the Ravens, not the Patriots. Nobody.

The Cards are no different than anyone else.

IF the Cardinals made an offer and we hardly know that they did. You honestly believe the Cardinals will wait on them to check out FA offers?…..They get a good offer and they are gone. The Cardinals can’t wait for them if they are going to find replacements and if they made an offer it is useless once FA starts.

 

[Krangodnzr]

when you get to this point, the odds say they are headed elsewhere

its a darn shame --

Zach is a good, but ascending player. He has an injury history, but someone with cap space to burn will take the option on him that his best football is ahead of him and that his injuries were just some bad luck.

Murphy is tougher. Prior to this season, i think we would have ranked Murphy higher in priority than Zach. Murphy would be a solid #2 CB -- I think the 9 week back injury really brings his value into question. Sprained ankles (as an example) teams can get comfortable with -- back injuries dont manifest in a physical exam and can pop back up without warning.

I think I put them about even for resigning prior to last season. They both played pretty well in 2021.

But because of Marco Wilson's play last year and Murphy's injury history, Allen definitely leapfrogged him. Also if Allen leaves, there is zero starting talent on the DL.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Allen currently listed as the #8 overall FA available:

Top 101 NFL free agents of 2023: Melvin Ingram, Dalton Risner among best available

So much for keeping him at a decent price.

 

[BritCard]

IF the Cardinals made an offer and we hardly know that they did. You honestly believe the Cardinals will wait on them to check out FA offers?…..They get a good offer and they are gone. The Cardinals can’t wait for them if they are going to find replacements and if they made an offer it is useless once FA starts.

Why wouldn't they? And we know they offered Allen. Mike said so in a radio interview last week.

Everyone waits for players to check out FA. The current teams makes an offer. The agent says "Thanks, it's where we hoped but were going to check the market" and then the game starts.

The current team almost always has the edge unless the player is unhappy. Who wants to move house, lose their friends, go somewhere they don't know anybody. Especially with Arizona. Who want's to leave Arizona for Chicago or Minnesota? So Allen and Murphy will come back and say "Well we can get X amount from Y team" and then try hash out a deal.

That's how it works every year for nearly every player. That's why there are 693 unsigned players and not a single none QB has resigned with their team that I can recall. Certainly not many and nobody significant.

You would do exactly the same thing. We all would.

 

[PJ1]

Why wouldn't they? And we know they offered Allen. Mike said so in a radio interview last week.

Everyone waits for players to check out FA. The current teams makes an offer. The agent says "Thanks, it's where we hoped but were going to check the market" and then the game starts.

The current team almost always has the edge unless the player is unhappy. Who wants to move house, lose their friends, go somewhere they don't know anybody. Especially with Arizona. Who want's to leave Arizona for Chicago or Minnesota? So Allen and Murphy will come back and say "Well we can get X amount from Y team" and then try hash out a deal.

That's how it works every year for nearly every player. That's why there are 693 unsigned players and not a single none QB has resigned with their team that I can recall. Certainly not many and nobody significant.

You would do exactly the same thing. We all would.

Actually that is not how it works. The Cardinals can’t wait on them unless they aren’t doing a thing in free agency. Mike said they made an offer to Allen? If they did it is good until he signs with someone else? How many top free agents test free agency and end up back with their team? Even more so with the Cardinals. Allen and Murphy are gone.

 

[BritCard]

Actually that is not how it works. The Cardinals can’t wait on them unless they aren’t doing a thing in free agency. Mike said they made an offer to Allen? If they did it is good until he signs with someone else? How many top free agents test free agency and end up back with their team? Even more so with the Cardinals. Allen and Murphy are gone.

It's exactly how it works and they aren't waiting on them. They will be looking at other free agents including replacements and using that themselves to counter the other sides demands. This has all been going on for weeks already.

The likelihood is they will go because it only take 1 desperate team out of 32 to offer more than market value. It's why free agents have a reputation for getting overpaid. Word was that the team offered Kirk $13m to stay last year, no way they could pay what the Jags did. But it's not certain, players do test the market and remain.

Their agent already knows what interest there is and what money he can get. If neither re-sign before the 15th then it's likely they don't stay.

 

[kerouac9]

It's exactly how it works and they aren't waiting on them. They will be looking at other free agents including replacements and using that themselves to counter the other sides demands. This has all been going on for weeks already.

The likelihood is they will go because it only take 1 desperate team out of 32 to offer more than market value. It's why free agents have a reputation for getting overpaid. Word was that the team offered Kirk $13m to stay last year, no way they could pay what the Jags did. But it's not certain, players do test the market and remain.

Their agent already knows what interest there is and what money he can get. If neither re-sign before the 15th then it's likely they don't stay.

I don't think you really understand what the term "market value" means based on this.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Looking forward to the “building the belly of the team” post brought back from 2003

Keep that powder dry!!!!

 

[BritCard]

I don't think you really understand what the term "market value" means based on this.

No history of overpaying in free agency at all.

 

[kerouac9]

No history of overpaying in free agency at all.

There's no such thing as overpaying in free agency. That's what market value means.

 

[Stout]

It's exactly how it works and they aren't waiting on them. They will be looking at other free agents including replacements and using that themselves to counter the other sides demands. This has all been going on for weeks already.

The likelihood is they will go because it only take 1 desperate team out of 32 to offer more than market value. It's why free agents have a reputation for getting overpaid. Word was that the team offered Kirk $13m to stay last year, no way they could pay what the Jags did. But it's not certain, players do test the market and remain.

Their agent already knows what interest there is and what money he can get. If neither re-sign before the 15th then it's likely they don't stay.

And that would be really, really bad for us, and start the new FO off on the wrong foot. Look, I get it. Keim was crap and his actions and inactions were bound to put the new regime in a terrible spot with a crap roster and two talented young drafted players as looming FAs. Well, they took the job, so Monti and Co can either dig in and get the job done or face the heat. If they both walk, it will be...I won't say catastrophic, but it'll be a disaster for sure. We are a roster devoid of much talent, and allowing what little we do have--and homegrown talent at that--walk would be horrible. You have to fill that talent with FA, which is not a recipe for success. Or you can fill it in the draft, but then you're just plugging holes created by your own ineptitude and that's not a good plan either.

 

[kerouac9]

And that would be really, really bad for us, and start the new FO off on the wrong foot. Look, I get it. Keim was crap and his actions and inactions were bound to put the new regime in a terrible spot with a crap roster and two talented young drafted players as looming FAs. Well, they took the job, so Monti and Co can either dig in and get the job done or face the heat. If they both walk, it will be...I won't say catastrophic, but it'll be a disaster for sure. We are a roster devoid of much talent, and allowing what little we do have--and homegrown talent at that--walk would be horrible. You have to fill that talent with FA, which is not a recipe for success. Or you can fill it in the draft, but then you're just plugging holes created by your own ineptitude and that's not a good plan either.

I think this is catastrophizing. Allen and Murphy are fine young players, but they're not irreplaceable. You'll pay more than you want to to replace them in free agency; in all likelihood, you'll pay less for an inferior version of each of them.

I always say that good teams are made up of 2-4 blue-chip players on each side of the ball filled in with good players on rookie deals or free agents outperforming their contracts. The problem is that the 2023 Arizona Cardinals are likely going to lack the former, not the latter.

I file Allen and Murphy as guys you'd like to have surrounding your best players, but unlikely to be among the best 3 players on your defense or outperform the contract they'll receive in free agency.

 

[BritCard]

And that would be really, really bad for us, and start the new FO off on the wrong foot. Look, I get it. Keim was crap and his actions and inactions were bound to put the new regime in a terrible spot with a crap roster and two talented young drafted players as looming FAs. Well, they took the job, so Monti and Co can either dig in and get the job done or face the heat. If they both walk, it will be...I won't say catastrophic, but it'll be a disaster for sure. We are a roster devoid of much talent, and allowing what little we do have--and homegrown talent at that--walk would be horrible. You have to fill that talent with FA, which is not a recipe for success. Or you can fill it in the draft, but then you're just plugging holes created by your own ineptitude and that's not a good plan either.

So what should they do? Pay them both $16m per to stay?

Overpaying to keep average to good players seems like a suboptimal way to build a team.

 

[BritCard]

There's no such thing as overpaying in free agency. That's what market value means.

Jordan Phillips says hi.

You're right. It's what market value means technically. But if 5 teams are offering $10m per year and one team is offering $13m per year they overpaid.

Otherwise I guess all Keim's FA signings were good deals.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think this is catastrophizing. Allen and Murphy are fine young players, but they're not irreplaceable. You'll pay more than you want to to replace them in free agency; in all likelihood, you'll pay less for an inferior version of each of them.

I always say that good teams are made up of 2-4 blue-chip players on each side of the ball filled in with good players on rookie deals or free agents outperforming their contracts. The problem is that the 2023 Arizona Cardinals are likely going to lack the former, not the latter.

I file Allen and Murphy as guys you'd like to have surrounding your best players, but unlikely to be among the best 3 players on your defense or outperform the contract they'll receive in free agency.

Totally agree.

 

[kerouac9]

Jordan Phillips says hi.

You're right. It's what market value means technically. But if 5 teams are offering $10m per year and one team is offering $13m per year they overpaid.

They did not. They paid exactly what they were willing to pay to get the deal done.

It's hilarious the way you dig in or try to re-define standard terms just to avoid saying that you were wrong.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Jordan Phillips says hi.

You're right. It's what market value means technically. But if 5 teams are offering $10m per year and one team is offering $13m per year they overpaid.

Otherwise I guess all Keim's FA signings were good deals.

Market Value is Market Value.

Was the FA signing good or not is a totally different animal.

 

[Stout]

I think this is catastrophizing. Allen and Murphy are fine young players, but they're not irreplaceable. You'll pay more than you want to to replace them in free agency; in all likelihood, you'll pay less for an inferior version of each of them.

I always say that good teams are made up of 2-4 blue-chip players on each side of the ball filled in with good players on rookie deals or free agents outperforming their contracts. The problem is that the 2023 Arizona Cardinals are likely going to lack the former, not the latter.

I file Allen and Murphy as guys you'd like to have surrounding your best players, but unlikely to be among the best 3 players on your defense or outperform the contract they'll receive in free agency.

Good take. I don't fully agree, and feel a team needs to be smart and savvy enough to keep those good players on rookie deals on their 2nd contracts.

 

[BritCard]

They did not. They paid exactly what they were willing to pay to get the deal done.

It's hilarious the way you dig in or try to re-define standard terms just to avoid saying that you were wrong.

They paid exactly what THEY were willing to pay to get the deal done. To everyone else they overpaid.

You're trying to argue nobody overpays based on the technical meaning of market value when we all KNOW with absolute certainty that teams overpay in FA every year.

Yes, it's the price they are willing to pay. It does not mean it's the price tha player is worth based on their talent.

 

[BritCard]

Market Value is Market Value.

Sure. It's the market value for one team. Not all teams.

 

[kerouac9]

They paid exactly what THEY were willing to pay to get the deal done. To everyone else they overpaid.

You're trying to argue nobody overpays based on the technical meaning of market value when we all KNOW with absolute certainty that teams overpay in FA every year.

Yes, it's the price they are willing to pay. It does not mean it's the price tha player is worth based on their talent.

Technically right is the best kind of right.