Zaven Collins re-signs for two more years

[Stout]

Bo Brack
@BoBrack
Zaven is beloved by his teammates and coaches. The two-year extension is close to what Collins would have made on his declined 5th year option

Oh good, he's well liked but can't put up any stats, so let's go further than what we would have done BLECH

Monti swings and whiffs!

 

[Stout]

This is perfectly fair money for a guy that offers what Zaven offers.

I like it, and gives him time to maybe someday develop.

FTFY

 

[Stout]

This is a surprise

Yes, an unfortunate one.

 

[bankybruce]

I'm confused. I thought because the the 5th year deal was declined, we couldn't negotiate a new deal until the next offseason. Obviously I was wrong, but hopefully it pays off for both sides.

 

[bankybruce]

Oh good, he's well liked but can't put up any stats, so let's go further than what we would have done BLECH

Monti swings and whiffs!

Technically, we got two for one here. 14 million for two years instead of 14 million for 1.

 

[Solar7]

@Stout I don't understand the hate for this move - as @bankybruce just said, this is just a great way to see how he develops on a discount... instead of having Haason Reddick 2.0 happen to us if Zaven breaks out.

 

[Stout]

Technically, we got two for one here. 14 million for two years instead of 14 million for 1.

Oh, from what I read above I thought it was basically the same money.

Either way, no thank you. I'd rather give a developmental prospect a shot after his deal expires.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don’t see Reddick 2.0 happening. Zaven doesn’t have the pass rush skills that Reddick had.

 

[Stout]

@Stout I don't understand the hate for this move - as @bankybruce just said, this is just a great way to see how he develops on a discount... instead of having Haason Reddick 2.0 happen to us if Zaven breaks out.

No, if he hasn't developed into anything but a "meh" JAG by now, he isn't going to. At this point, people want to "wait to see how he develops?" It's like Kyler. Well, it's year 10 and he hasn't gotten into the playoffs again, but maybe he'll develop into it

Okay, the last line was a clear joke, but no. He's a meh JAG. It's not hate, it's knowing he was the wrong pick, him showing he was the wrong pick, him showing he's a JAG, and me questioning why we're giving that money to a JAG when we would be able to replicate his numbers for less than half the price or less, with a draft pick.

 

[MadCardDisease]

No, if he hasn't developed into anything but a "meh" JAG by now, he isn't going to. At this point, people want to "wait to see how he develops?" It's like Kyler. Well, it's year 10 and he hasn't gotten into the playoffs again, but maybe he'll develop into it

Okay, the last line was a clear joke, but no. He's a meh JAG. It's not hate, it's knowing he was the wrong pick, him showing he was the wrong pick, him showing he's a JAG, and me questioning why we're giving that money to a JAG when we would be able to replicate his numbers for less than half the price or less, with a draft pick.

I have no problem with $7M a year for Collins. I don’t think he is a Pass Rush specialist but he might get you 4-5 sacks a year. However I think he can be a decent contributor at least. I would have been disappointed if they paid him 5th year option type money. With BJ going down he becomes more important to the roster this season.

 

[Solar7]

I don’t see Reddick 2.0 happening. Zaven doesn’t have the pass rush skills that Reddick had.

Reddick had zero pass rush ability himself, and was stuck at ILB until his breakout year. So I'm not sure why the comparison isn't apt. Reddick was pretty much unanimously considered unsalvageable when we considered his option. I'd argue Zaven has been better, and this isn't at all costly to move a potentially versatile player around as a backup if we had to at this cost.

 

[gimpy]

@Stout I don't understand the hate for this move - as @bankybruce just said, this is just a great way to see how he develops on a discount... instead of having Haason Reddick 2.0 happen to us if Zaven breaks out.

You have to look for where the hate is coming from.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Reddick had zero pass rush ability himself, and was stuck at ILB until his breakout year. So I'm not sure why the comparison isn't apt. Reddick was pretty much unanimously considered unsalvageable when we considered his option. I'd argue Zaven has been better, and this isn't at all costly to move a potentially versatile player around as a backup if we had to at this cost.

The Cardinals played Zaven at OLB last season and I didn’t see any clear pass rush moves that would suggest he could develop into a great pass rusher.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yes, an unfortunate one.

Its certainly odd. Maybe it works out. Haven't seen it so far

 

[Stout]

I have no problem with $7M a year for Collins. I don’t think he is a Pass Rush specialist but he might get you 4-5 sacks a year. However I think he can be a decent contributor at least. I would have been disappointed if they paid him 5th year option type money. With BJ going down he becomes more important to the roster this season.

This season, yes, but he was already under contract for this season.

Ah well.

 

[Stout]

You have to look for where the hate is coming from.

Okay, you got your personal shot for the day in. Now crawl back under your bridge.

 

[MadCardDisease]

This season, yes, but he was already under contract for this season.

Ah well.

Agreed. But I also believe that he can be a rotational player who can be used on run downs and goal line situations. So I have no problem with bringing him back for two more years.

 

[bankybruce]

Oh, from what I read above I thought it was basically the same money.

Either way, no thank you. I'd rather give a developmental prospect a shot after his deal expires.

Fair! He's a jag to me, so $7 million might a little high. We'll see now that BJ is down.

 

[oaken1]

I'm confused. I thought because the the 5th year deal was declined, we couldn't negotiate a new deal until the next offseason. Obviously I was wrong, but hopefully it pays off for both sides.

Not a new deal...it's an extension...

 

[bankybruce]

Not a new deal...it's an extension...

I understand that. I was just under the impression that we couldn't negotiate an extension once we declined the 5th year deal. I guess it's just rare for it to happen after declining it.

Josh Jacobs and Daniel Jones are the only other recent player to was declined and the team kept.

Jacobs was franchised after the season and Jones signed an extension after the season as well.

Since 2011, I can't find another player who did. 2011 is when the 5th option became a thing. Collins must really want to stay then.

 

[oaken1]

I understand that. I was just under the impression that we couldn't negotiate an extension once we declined the 5th year deal. I guess it's just rare for it to happen after declining it.

Josh Jacobs and Daniel Jones are the only other recent player to was declined and the team kept.

Jacobs was franchised after the season and Jones signed an extension after the season as well.

Since 2011, I can't find another player who did. 2011 is when the 5th option became a thing. Collins must really want to stay then.

Yeah I don't know...just know that the nfl gets specific with the verbiage...maybe it has to do with a specific date? Start of the season maybe?

 

[Gandhi]

No, if he hasn't developed into anything but a "meh" JAG by now, he isn't going to. At this point, people want to "wait to see how he develops?" It's like Kyler. Well, it's year 10 and he hasn't gotten into the playoffs again, but maybe he'll develop into it

Stout, to me it is mostly about plan B. There is none. It is not so much that I want to wait and see how he develops as it is that I have to hope, wait and see.

In that sense I find a bit of hope in how he became a first round-pick based almost solely on his play as a senior at Tulsa. There he was deployed in several different ways – one of them being as a pass rusher, often coming from the edge. He showed the abilities that he needs to succeed as an edge defender, and who knows if Nick Rallis, Rob Rodriguez and Jonathan Gannon can get it out of him? As I see it, you are likely right that he will never turn into a big contributor, but we just don’t have any choice as fans than to hope for it.

 

[Gandhi]

Reddick had zero pass rush ability himself, and was stuck at ILB until his breakout year. So I'm not sure why the comparison isn't apt. Reddick was pretty much unanimously considered unsalvageable when we considered his option. I'd argue Zaven has been better, and this isn't at all costly to move a potentially versatile player around as a backup if we had to at this cost.

I disagree, Solar. Reddick had by far his best season at Temple as an edge rusher as a senior, and with the Cardinals it quickly become obvious (to anyone else than James Bettcher) that Reddick couldn’t diagnose a play to save his life. He needed to be put in positions where he could turn off his brain and only go for the quarterback – the role that he himself asked Vance Joseph to move him to. That was the position where he flourished, both in his last year with the Cardinals, and with his major success with the Panthers and Eagles.

I don’t think it is fair to argue that Reddick had no pass rush ability. James Bettcher and Steve Wilks (and Al Holcomb) just didn’t see it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, if he hasn't developed into anything but a "meh" JAG by now, he isn't going to. At this point, people want to "wait to see how he develops?" It's like Kyler. Well, it's year 10 and he hasn't gotten into the playoffs again, but maybe he'll develop into it

Okay, the last line was a clear joke, but no. He's a meh JAG. It's not hate, it's knowing he was the wrong pick, him showing he was the wrong pick, him showing he's a JAG, and me questioning why we're giving that money to a JAG when we would be able to replicate his numbers for less than half the price or less, with a draft pick.

Zaven was decent at everything other than getting to the QB last year. Lorenzo Alexander talked about him during the off-season and was saying that from his film study, the Cardinals didn't really just unleash him as a pass rusher and that they needed to let him just go and do it.

I think with BJ's injury, the Cardinals are now kind of forced to use him as a pass rusher quite a bit more. They also have to consider using Mack Wilson at edge too.

White BJ didn't show much last year, the Cardinals were expecting a big jump, so it's a huge loss overall.

 

[CardNots]

that Reddick couldn’t diagnose a play to save his life.

Wow, explains a lot