Zaven Collins re-signs for two more years

[Stout]

Because the Cardinals don't think Collins is a JAG? I don't think he's a JAG, I think he's a solid LB who played his first games at edge last year and didn't make the impact we want as a rusher but did everything else better than a "JAG".

Im just going to LULZ hard at this statement. Which is it @Stout? Keep the powder dry or spend?

I appreciate your perspective overall and I agree that more can be done, but Zaven Collins is a better player than you are portraying.

I'm fine with you disagreeing

 

[Solar7]

This isn’t true. Reddick was a pass-rusher coming out, but then Steve Keim got thirsty seeing him doing a few ILB reps at the Senior Bowl & it was downhill from there.

My discussion was at the pro level, but fair to disagree if that matters or not.

At the absolute worst we overpaid ZC by a million or two (like .5% of the cap), and there's decent chance he could prosper with JG/NR's coaching and scheme

Nothing but upside to this signing! Really like it!

This is my thinking. It's not like we wildly overpaid. This team has plenty of space, and the player is decent enough that I doubt in the next two years, we'll be desperately bemoaning Zaven's contract being on the books.

This organization has made much more damning decisions with new contracts.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t really understand what the issue is for folks regarding this deal. It is short. He is young. It is pretty cheap. He is one of our best options. His contract doesn’t prohibit the Cardinals from adding future edge players.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don’t really understand what the issue is for folks regarding this deal. It is short. He is young. It is pretty cheap. He is one of our best options. His contract doesn’t prohibit the Cardinals from adding future edge players.

The same people arguing that this was a bad move are the same people arguing they need to spend money. Irony isn't lost there.

The Cardinals should have done more to shore up edge, that isn't really debatable, but Collins isn't a bad player at all.

 

[Shane]

So you're saying I should just be cool with the team wasting money? It's not like I'm Steve Keim. Also, I was commenting on other posters opinions on spending? But whatever.

Maybe they shouldn't burn money on JAGs (my opinion) or extending older RBs for multiple seasons but actually spend money on the edge room? I would like them to spend money on players I think are worth it without mortgaging the future and not sit on tons of cap space. That should be a very easy concept to understand.

Every single team has JAGs in the starting line up and are necessary. You have to spend money on them to fill out the roster. This signing won’t stop anything moving forward so it really just sounds like a lot of hand wringing for nothing. JMO

 

[Chopper0080]

probably the most unbiased perspective is the Cardinals extended a former 1st round draft pick who transitioned to EDGE last year and showed enough that the organization wanted to invest another two years to see where he lands.

 

[Chopper0080]

The same people arguing that this was a bad move are the same people arguing they need to spend money. Irony isn't lost there.

The Cardinals should have done more to shore up edge, that isn't really debatable, but Collins isn't a bad player at all.

Collins is a meh right now. But he has been doing a lot of extra work with the coaching staff and I am guessing they are willing to continue to work with him. Keim would have looked great extending Reddick. I don’t believe Collins can be that level of pass rusher but maybe he can bump up from 3.5 to 6.5?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Reddick had zero pass rush ability himself, and was stuck at ILB until his breakout year. So I'm not sure why the comparison isn't apt. Reddick was pretty much unanimously considered unsalvageable when we considered his option. I'd argue Zaven has been better, and this isn't at all costly to move a potentially versatile player around as a backup if we had to at this cost.

Uh Reddick was literally a passrusher in college (believe he had double digit sacks his last year in college). He was moved by idiots to ILB.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You have to look for where the hate is coming from.

Or you can just talk football instead of maligning a poster. Seems early in the season for this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

From someone who offers up the frothing-at-the-mouth childishness of 'fire Monti.' LOL

I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen stout type those words. Nice of you to put words in his mouth. That’s like the gutter of debate.

 

[Dayman]

It seems like Zaven is a great guy and an average player. This isn't a horrible deal for a player like that, although I do worry that Monti will end up overvaluing personality vs talent to do things his way.

I don't think we are looking at another Reddick situation here, though. Collins had 12 pressures and 6 hurries in his first year as an OLB. Reddick had 34 pressures and 16 hurries in his first year at OLB. They aren't remotely the same.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

probably the most unbiased perspective is the Cardinals extended a former 1st round draft pick who transitioned to EDGE last year and showed enough that the organization wanted to invest another two years to see where he lands.

From a front office that let Murphy and Allen walk a couple years ago. So they aren’t adverse to letting guys who seemed to be in the same range, Talent-wise walk. So I’ll take their word for it that this fits their plan . . .until/unless proven otherwise.

 

[Chopper0080]

From a front office that let Murphy and Allen walk a couple years ago. So they aren’t adverse to letting guys who seemed to be in the same range, Talent-wise walk. So I’ll take their word for it that this fits their plan . . .until/unless proven otherwise.

Yup. Personally I just don’t see a bunch of downside even if I don’t expect a whole lot of improvement.

 

[BulldogCard]

There was a game that it seemed Collins was about to turn the corner in a couple years ago. Then like something catastrophic happened after making a couple good plays. Like a blown assignment or something. It kind of defined some stuff for that brief moment. I can picture him turning into a double digit sack guy. Or he remains ordinary. I could picture coaching changing his career. There are few who are special; have wiggle. Maybe he's who we thought he was; but he almost seems like more to me. Could he ever be turned into a monster. I would really like to see it for a change.

 

[QuebecCard]

I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen stout type those words. Nice of you to put words in his mouth. That’s like the gutter of debate.

Think again!

 

[kerouac9]

Collins is a meh right now. But he has been doing a lot of extra work with the coaching staff and I am guessing they are willing to continue to work with him. Keim would have looked great extending Reddick. I don’t believe Collins can be that level of pass rusher but maybe he can bump up from 3.5 to 6.5?

Keim never would have bothered negotiating with Collins because he’d be an embarrassment to him. You’d love to draft A+ players every time, but sometimes you end up with a C+ player who can play in the NFL but will never be a star.

You can maybe get a similar player in the third round and save some money, but you’re paying the opportunity cost of using that pick to improve your roster.

The perfect comparison is Deone Bucannon.

 

[bankybruce]

Keim never would have bothered negotiating with Collins because he’d be an embarrassment to him. You’d love to draft A+ players every time, but sometimes you end up with a C+ player who can play in the NFL but will never be a star.

You can maybe get a similar player in the third round and save some money, but you’re paying the opportunity cost of using that pick to improve your roster.

The perfect comparison is Deone Bucannon.

Post of the day!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Think again!

You’re tellling me stout has typed “fire monti?”

 

[Stout]

The same people arguing that this was a bad move are the same people arguing they need to spend money. Irony isn't lost there.

The Cardinals should have done more to shore up edge, that isn't really debatable, but Collins isn't a bad player at all.

Funny, yinz seem to want to debate that a lot across a spectrum of threads.

The irony isn't lost that I and others don't want us to just sign anyone like Keim, yet you and others continue your purposeful misinformation. Your post reminds me of the veracity of select political rallies. Disingenuous is too mild a term.

Yes, let's burn money just to burn it.

 

[Stout]

Every single team has JAGs in the starting line up and are necessary. You have to spend money on them to fill out the roster. This signing won’t stop anything moving forward so it really just sounds like a lot of hand wringing for nothing. JMO

Yep, you need JAGs. Nope, it won't hamstring our cap. Yes, you could get the same production and impact for half the price. Let's spend money on better players and not use paying ZC as an excuse not to (as the team will do).

 

[Stout]

probably the most unbiased perspective is the Cardinals extended a former 1st round draft pick who transitioned to EDGE last year and showed enough that the organization wanted to invest another two years to see where he lands.

The rest is unbiased. Showed enough to the team only, IMO.

 

[Stout]

I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen stout type those words. Nice of you to put words in his mouth. That’s like the gutter of debate.

Ha, never even read it. There's a reason I've only ever ignored one poster in the history of ASFN. To exceed NEM and Tango is impressive.

 

[Stout]

From a front office that let Murphy and Allen walk a couple years ago. So they aren’t adverse to letting guys who seemed to be in the same range, Talent-wise walk. So I’ll take their word for it that this fits their plan . . .until/unless proven otherwise.

Fair.

 

[Stout]

You’re tellling me stout has typed “fire monti?”

Oh mai! I wonder what he is blabbering about lol

 

[BACH]

Show me how ZC is above average. I'll wait.

But that is not the question!

I wrote earlier What the market is for OLB in the NFL. Collins is better IMO and by pff than OLB signed in the same contract range.

You Might Think he is overpaid, But the NFL Doesn’t adjust to your feelings. Looking at the market base for a OLB it would suggest that he signed to a Fair contract. Perhaps even on the cheap side