Cardinals at Bills gameday thread 9-8-24

[BullheadCardFan]

The book is to play zone vs Kyler because it helps contain his running ability and he struggles to read defenses.

So he didn't watch film to learn how to over come this?

If this is true, then why?

He worked hard on physically coming back

I kept saying he needs to learn how to read a defense and know where all his receiving options are at all time even before they break

This is what set Warner and others above the average QB

 

[BullheadCardFan]

DVOA says Kyler had a 97 passing DYAR in the first half but -73 in the second half.

2nd half, oof

 

[Dayman]

This absolutely has to change.

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[Dayman]

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[BirdGangThing]

This absolutely has to change.

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no motion and no play action - once jonah went out we stayed in shotgun

 

[urs]

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Nah, it's pretty well established that the folks on this board know more than Orlovsky and that scrub Warner

 

[FB94]

Common theme for the ones with low motion rate- THEY ALL LOST. Yes the ravens and rams lost but they played two Super Bowl contenders. Packers close loss.

 

[MadCardDisease]

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[oaken1]

This absolutely has to change.

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Gad damn Petzing does it less than kliff...what dafuq is it gonna take in the freaking desert??

 

[DVontel]

Gad damn Petzing does it less than kliff...what dafuq is it gonna take in the freaking desert??

Just going off of mind memory, but I don’t think this is true.

 

[oaken1]

Just going off of mind memory, but I don’t think this is true.

Just going off the list posted that shows the commies use more motion than us

 

[tennis-player]

Feels clear the game plan was ball control, dink and dunk, protect your defense by keeping them off the field. That worked great in the first half, and should have been adjusted in the 2nd half when it was clear that running Conner on first and second was a total waste of downs, resulting in third and longs that were heavily blitzed and Beacham couldn't hold up.

I think I like Petzing but man he had a bad 2nd half yesterday. And maybe he was pressured by JG to keep running the ball since JG saw how poorly the defense was performing and wanted to control the clock.

I also think the 20+ mph wind had a lot to do with the conservative play calling.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Out of that 38-21-1 record, 10 of those wins came in Carson’s first season where he had a 24/22 TD/INT ratio. You know what really helped that team get 10 wins? A top 1 rushing defense with top 7 overall defense.

2014? Played good to start, but injured for the season shortly.

2015? Peak Palmer. Pretty much the only great season he had with us.

What’s funny about that playoff win @Chopper0080 and that other dude brought up is that Carson tried his absolute best to throw the game. Constant dropped INTs from the Packers. This is also with the defense holding Rodgers to 20 points.

I liked Carson a good bit, but revisionist history should not be beating all of you guys’ asses like this. I was there. We were all there. Lets not rewrite history.

And to answer your question about Kyler, yea.

Hmm, okay we will just have to disagree. I can’t bring myself to believe kyler will make enough plays in the crunch to win that many games, even were he plunked into palmers exact situation. And that’s not me deifying Palmer. He certainly had his shortcomings.

 

[oaken1]

I also think the 20+ mph wind had a lot to do with the conservative play calling.

Agree. Buffalo had an advantage with a stronger qb who was experienced playing in those conditions. It was actually talked about when Allen was drafted...that his size and strength give him an advantage in inclement weather.

However. We don't know if kyler could have made those throws or not because our OC was afraid to dial up a couple shots and find out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is garbage from Orlovsky.

First if Dortch is his 1st read then MHJ should be his 2nd because a) It's in his line of sight already and b) if the CB bites on the pump to Dortch then he's open.

Second, even when he comes back from the left MHJ has 15 yards on the 2 recovering DB's.. All Kyler has to do is throw it down into the EZ and let MHJ adjust to it in the air.

Third, a good QB, one in his 6th year and getting paid $45m a year is thinking pre snap "My #4 overall pick WR is 1 vs 1, maybe I can get the CB to bit on a pump fake to Dortch to open him up".

I'm sure Orlovsky thinks this wasn't on the QB, considering how good he was as a QB.

Agree with all of this

 

[DaHilg]

I also think the 20+ mph wind had a lot to do with the conservative play calling.

Why not roll Kyler out though? Wind doesn’t affect that.. for the life of me I don’t get this. Kyler is good at throwing on the run, outside of the pocket. His height is not an issue there. Then he also has the threat to run.. drag routes galore with rolling him out would be a problem. I just don’t get it

 

[Ronin]

The Cardinal Rule

@jokomo13
·
4h

Zaven Collins PFF grade breakdown:
85.8 Overall defense
80.8 Run defense
77.5 Tackling
91.2 Coverage
57.9 Pass rush (and zero total pressures)Collins continues to do everything well - except rush the passer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why not roll Kyler out though? Wind doesn’t affect that.. for the life of me I don’t get this. Kyler is good at throwing on the run, outside of the pocket. His height is not an issue there. Then he also has the threat to run.. drag routes galore with rolling him out would be a problem. I just don’t get it

Legit criticism of the coaching staff. That said, I’m not sure he’s good at throwing on the run. He seemed to be his first couple years, but has been pretty inconsistent since.

And I still can’t believe how little we use the deep ball and how bad Kyler got throwing them. His first couple years, most of the long balls were things of beauty. Now they’re barely called and when thrown, they haven’t looked close the same the last couple years.

 

[oaken1]

The Cardinal Rule
@jokomo13
·
4h

Zaven Collins PFF grade breakdown:
85.8 Overall defense
80.8 Run defense
77.5 Tackling
91.2 Coverage
57.9 Pass rush (and zero total pressures)Collins continues to do everything well - except rush the passer.

That sack that was erased over a ghost call would have brought that pass rush grade right up.

 

[BigDavis75]

The Cardinal Rule
@jokomo13
·
4h

Zaven Collins PFF grade breakdown:
85.8 Overall defense
80.8 Run defense
77.5 Tackling
91.2 Coverage
57.9 Pass rush (and zero total pressures)Collins continues to do everything well - except rush the passer.

He was exceptional, Wilson had a few huge splash plays but zaven was consistently awesome and our best defender for my eye.

 

[kerouac9]

That sack that was erased over a ghost call would have brought that pass rush grade right up.

You can't hit the QB in the head. You especially can't hit the #2 QB in the league in the head. That's just the way it's going to be; no use whining about it.

 

[Chopper0080]

So he didn't watch film to learn how to over come this?

If this is true, then why?

He worked hard on physically coming back

I kept saying he needs to learn how to read a defense and know where all his receiving options are at all time even before they break

This is what set Warner and others above the average QB

Because it isn't easy, he didn't have to learn it to be successful in High School and College, and it is really hard to develop new habits at the pro level. Ultimately it is up to him. These things don't absolve him of that. He might not ever be able to develop to that level. Only a few QBs do. This might be as good as he gets as a pro.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But is that a play calling problem?

Very few plays limit all route trees to 3 yards or less. If petzig’s does that an entire offensive philosophy and design problem.

 

[Redsz]

The Cardinal Rule
@jokomo13
·
4h

Zaven Collins PFF grade breakdown:
85.8 Overall defense
80.8 Run defense
77.5 Tackling
91.2 Coverage
57.9 Pass rush (and zero total pressures)Collins continues to do everything well - except rush the passer.

He will be a good complimentary player. But he is not the pass rusher we need.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is A LOT of data, even for the 2nd half, that suggests he was getting zero help from his teammates, or from the OC.

But, if you say "K1 has to find a way to win that game", I can live with that. He didn't do that, and he had chances to do it.

If you say "the offense performed terribly in the 2nd half, and K1 contributed to that" that's fair.

If you say, "K1 needs to be better in the 2nd half", that's reasonable.

Saying Murray was solely or even primarily responsible for the offense being terrible in the 2nd half is not fair, and neither is saying Murray was primarily responsible for us losing that game.

You a few others are using him as a scapegoat and I don't appreciate it.

I would say he wasn’t the primary reason we lost. But it’s disappointing that despite the other reasons he couldn’t be the reason we won. As the #1 overall pick, paid $49M, in his sixth season, I think we all hoped he could be. And he couldn’t.