0-2 is time for Rosen

[oaken1]

Nice to see the voice of reason is prevailing in this thread.

Rosen could (could!) someday be an elite NFL QB, if he's handled/coached/managed correctly. He could be part of a team that finally delivers a SB trophy to our beloved franchise.

And yet some of you would throw him out there, two months into his professional career, with his slight frame, behind a patchwork offensive line, and when it will be apparent we're not going to win anything this year anyway? How could that possibly be the best long-term strategy for Rosen? What purpose would it serve, other than to satisfy your curiosity?

first off... this aint a patchwork oline...these are our guys....I mean, smith is out right?? But wetzel is likely just as good anyway...as it sits this line is around league average...

10/16, 107 yards, 1 TD/0 INT, 0 carries for 0 yards,

thats what Rosen did when he ran with the ones against the saints. Granted, the saints just gave up like a thousand yards to ryan fitzpatrick or patrick fitzryan or whatever...but that defense is not nfl worst.

The biggest difference is that sam bradford isnt looking downfield and rosen did.... bradford is looking to his first option then to his outlet whereas rosen at least was going through his progressions. Bradford is playing to not get hurt while Rosen is playing to win the game.

I honestly think at this point the kid gives us a better chance of winning. sure he will take his lumps...have a 3 INT game...get hit...maybe make the wrong audible at times...those things happen.
but bradford?
8 /11 73yds 0 TD's..... for the entire pre season
20 /34 153yds 1 INT so far this season

They are both running the same offense... both have the same options to make calls at the line. But Bradford is clearly gaining less per pass attempt,...very clearly playing it safe.

you have to play to win the game... not to "not lose" the game.


then when you add in the "future" Vs the "Placeholder"... the team knows that Josh is the guy and there is a good chance they will play harder for him than they do for Bradford

 

[DVontel]

Not biased at all. You’ve never heard me say a good word about OSU quarterbacks in the last 10 years.

This kid is the real deal.

But do you hear yourself?

Why would we draft another QB in the top 10 when we literally just drafted one(even if he were to struggle if he starts, which wouldn’t be surprising behind an inept OC)? Especially when we have a lot more holes elsewhere.

What separates Haskins from other Urban Meyer-coached QBs?

You’re gushing him up because he’s a Ohio State player that’s somewhat known by the national media. You’re a Ohio State fan. It’s understandable. Wait until he plays some tough competition first.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

when the cards get beat Sunday, and they will, they should go to Rosen.

See what you have, and if he has the makings of being the future.

They’re not winning more than 2-3 games with Bradford. Let the young kid get in there and develop.

The benefit is 3 fold. We never have to see Bradford again, Rosen gets experience, and the Cards get to see if they need to look at another Qb(Dwayne haskins) in this upcoming draft with their high draft pick.

So, if the Cards lose 35-31 and Bradford goes for 330 and 3 TDs, you'd still call for a change?

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[Brak]

when the cards get beat Sunday, and they will, they should go to Rosen.

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[Finito]

first off... this aint a patchwork oline...these are our guys....I mean, smith is out right?? But wetzel is likely just as good anyway...as it sits this line is around league average...

10/16, 107 yards, 1 TD/0 INT, 0 carries for 0 yards,

thats what Rosen did when he ran with the ones against the saints. Granted, the saints just gave up like a thousand yards to ryan fitzpatrick or patrick fitzryan or whatever...but that defense is not nfl worst.

The biggest difference is that sam bradford isnt looking downfield and rosen did.... bradford is looking to his first option then to his outlet whereas rosen at least was going through his progressions. Bradford is playing to not get hurt while Rosen is playing to win the game.

I honestly think at this point the kid gives us a better chance of winning. sure he will take his lumps...have a 3 INT game...get hit...maybe make the wrong audible at times...those things happen.
but bradford?
8 /11 73yds 0 TD's..... for the entire pre season
20 /34 153yds 1 INT so far this season

They are both running the same offense... both have the same options to make calls at the line. But Bradford is clearly gaining less per pass attempt,...very clearly playing it safe.

you have to play to win the game... not to "not lose" the game.


then when you add in the "future" Vs the "Placeholder"... the team knows that Josh is the guy and there is a good chance they will play harder for him than they do for Bradford

You also drafted ROSEN for the future not now. Even if we play Rosen we still suck and ain't winning much.

Trust me the guys are playing plenty hard. Dominique Foxworth brought this up on ESPN this group of fans that think if guys just played harder they'd win more. He was so offended by this. Saying guys are out there destroying there bodies and fans question effort, he pretty much said every guy out there is killing himself the reason the other team wins is usually because there more talented.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

first off... this aint a patchwork oline...these are our guys....I mean, smith is out right?? But wetzel is likely just as good anyway...as it sits this line is around league average...

10/16, 107 yards, 1 TD/0 INT, 0 carries for 0 yards,

thats what Rosen did when he ran with the ones against the saints. Granted, the saints just gave up like a thousand yards to ryan fitzpatrick or patrick fitzryan or whatever...but that defense is not nfl worst.

The biggest difference is that sam bradford isnt looking downfield and rosen did.... bradford is looking to his first option then to his outlet whereas rosen at least was going through his progressions. Bradford is playing to not get hurt while Rosen is playing to win the game.

I honestly think at this point the kid gives us a better chance of winning. sure he will take his lumps...have a 3 INT game...get hit...maybe make the wrong audible at times...those things happen.
but bradford?
8 /11 73yds 0 TD's..... for the entire pre season
20 /34 153yds 1 INT so far this season

They are both running the same offense... both have the same options to make calls at the line. But Bradford is clearly gaining less per pass attempt,...very clearly playing it safe.

you have to play to win the game... not to "not lose" the game.


then when you add in the "future" Vs the "Placeholder"... the team knows that Josh is the guy and there is a good chance they will play harder for him than they do for Bradford

I believe we're down two starters on the O line sir. Cole is a rookie who might be good, but what if, through inexperience, he fails to call out the correct blitz pick-up coverage, and get's Rosen obliterated? Also, I disagree that Wetzel is as good as a traffic cone, let alone as good as Smith.

Maybe, if we had a great oline, and very good WRs, a decent TE, and DJ, I would consider putting Rosen in after the bye. But considering the rest of offense we're firing out there this year? No way oaken. No freaking way man.

 

[GatorAZ]

Start him week 3 vs the Bears. I don’t like the idea of bringing in a rookie mid game. By year two he’d have nearly a full year of experience.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But do you hear yourself?

Why would we draft another QB in the top 10 when we literally just drafted one(even if he were to struggle if he starts, which wouldn’t be surprising behind an inept OC)? Especially when we have a lot more holes elsewhere.

What separates Haskins from other Urban Meyer-coached QBs?

You’re gushing him up because he’s a Ohio State player that’s somewhat known by the national media. You’re a Ohio State fan. It’s understandable. Wait until he plays some tough competition first.

Watch him play tonight and you'll see the difference between him and other Meyer QB's. There has yet be a called run for Haskins this year. By no means am I a OSU homer when it comes to the draft. The proof is out there if you want to look it up. When I do see a good player, I do hype him, like Denzel Ward last year. I wasn't all that high on Joey Bosa coming out.

I'm saying if Rosen goes all Nate Peterman on the Cards, then yes, draft another one. But I don't think he will.

As for Rosen getting thrown in too early, I don't buy it. He's not lacking confidence and is not a mentally weak person. Personally, I would have started him from game 1. Like Arians said, you've got a young QB, you play him. That's the only way he's going to get better.

 

[Snakester]

Anytime after the Rams game is fine with me. He’s got a decent o-line, Fitz and good running backs. He’s our future so it will do him good to play this year.

 

[Finito]

Yeah, I'd agree with this. If we're not in the hunt at the bye, it's Rosen time. Also, we won't be in the hunt.

But, I think it's likely that Bradford, via pedestrian play or injury, forces the issue.

If we're 1-5 or 2-4 and trailing the Broncos at halftime, at home, in week 7, the fans who pay for seats will likely be on foaming at the mouth for something interesting to watch.

Fans are the last people I would listen to.

They ain't going nowhere.

 

[moklerman]

Tell that to Peyton, Eli, Aikman etc.

I agree only to a slight extent, but if the QB is mentally tough & believes in himself he will succeed regardless.

There’s only one way to learn & that’s experience, plus I don’t think our Oline is as bad as last year. I think it’s serviceable

I don't think it's a universal rule though. Some situations will be detrimental to the point of hurting a QB's future. I think the reason guys like Aikman, Eli, Peyton stand out is because they are the exceptions to the rule. For every one of them, there are probably 5 who didn't make it and rushing a QB as well as putting him in a bad situation won't necessarily be overcome by that QB's confidence in himself.

Does it seem reasonable to assume Goff would have overcome Jeff Fisher if he'd remained the coach? It's true that a very select few QB's are forged from iron and will overcome it all but I think it's more reasonable to not put a young guy into a bad situation and improve his chances.

With the Cardinals, I think it's been clearly established that Bradford is the superior QB. At least all the reports from camp and preseason that I heard said that. So, do you really want to make this about Rosen and not the team? The players know which player should be starting and if you go against that, you lose credibility.

Unless Bradford starts struggling while the rest of the offense improves, I don't see how you bench him and not have it look like you're giving up and making it all about Rosen. I think he'll get about 8 games before it's reasonable to put Rosen in and start his learning curve. If the Cardinals have a chance at the post season they'll keep playing Bradford, if not it will be "safe" to put in Rosen.

 

[LoyalRam]

I'm just saying the Cardinals should keep drafting a QB until they get it right. It doesn't always have to be an early pick but there is no guarantee Rosen is the QBOTF when he hasn't even played a regular season game yet.

I like picking a position every year, but that ain't the QB, imo. Offensive Linemen is my choice for that. Without an Oline, the QB has little chance to succeed...

 

[Mainstreet]

I like picking a position every year, but that ain't the QB, imo. Offensive Linemen is my choice for that. Without an Oline, the QB has little chance to succeed...

As much as Cardinals fans like Rosen, he is not proven. Until he proves himself I still like drafting a QB every season.

Besides, the Cardinals can't draft offensive linemen.

 

[DVontel]

Drafting a QB every season would be just....no.

You only do that for players that play in the trenches.

 

[moklerman]

As much as Cardinals fans like Rosen, he is not proven. Until he proves himself I still like drafting a QB every season.

Besides, the Cardinals can't draft offensive linemen.

I'm curious if you have any examples of this being practiced and/or working?

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm curious if you have any examples of this being practiced and/or working?

I've heard it talked about but I do not know of any teams that practice this. I would only do it until the team is sure it has the QBOTF. It doesn't have to be an early pick.

 

[moklerman]

I've heard it talked about but I do not know of any teams that practice this. I would only do it until the team is sure it has the QBOTF. It doesn't have to be an early pick.

I guess it comes down to whether we're being literal or the intent. I'd say Washington was kind of an example since they took RGIII and Cousins in the same draft but that's not really taking one "every" year.

Which brings up the question of how do you know when you're sure? They drafted multiple QB's and less than a decade later they're living with a FA pickup. Doesn't seem like the drafting approach really paid off for them.

Just seems like too much of a blanket statement or philosophy to truly be implemented. I mean, will a young QB develop the way that you want if you're drafting a QB every year? Just how do you draft a QB each year after the third year? Has the first one really gotten a chance at that point? What about the third one? Do you cut him before he's had a chance just to bring in another one?

 

[Cheesebeef]

after the bye is good.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess it comes down to whether we're being literal or the intent. I'd say Washington was kind of an example since they took RGIII and Cousins in the same draft but that's not really taking one "every" year.

Which brings up the question of how do you know when you're sure? They drafted multiple QB's and less than a decade later they're living with a FA pickup. Doesn't seem like the drafting approach really paid off for them.

Just seems like too much of a blanket statement or philosophy to truly be implemented. I mean, will a young QB develop the way that you want if you're drafting a QB every year? Just how do you draft a QB each year after the third year? Has the first one really gotten a chance at that point? What about the third one? Do you cut him before he's had a chance just to bring in another one?

All good points. I don't think there is a tried and proved method.

 

[Stout]

I'm curious if you have any examples of this being practiced and/or working?

Green Bay quite a ways back, and they ended up in great QB shape, using the ones they didn't keep as capital.

 

[oaken1]

Green Bay quite a ways back, and they ended up in great QB shape, using the ones they didn't keep as capital.

and billichek sorta... dude has traded away several qb's after he trained them

 

[JeffGollin]

Gametime decision.

Make moves that will best benefit the team - whether that goal be: Throw Rosen into the proverbial water, protect him from premature injury, pick up a quick win, build for the long term.

In short - whatever the coaching staff feels best addresses its goals and priorities. The only caveat: "Have a good reason for doing what you're doing, put the pedal to the medal and don't look back.

What I'll be leery of are decisions that are "sleepwalked" and then supported by coachspeak.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Unless Bradford gets hurt, the cards have 20 million reasons why Rosen wont play anytime soon.

 

[overseascardfan]

IMO I take the KC model of sitting Mahomes a year. Look at the kid now, Reid looks like a genius moving on from Smith.

ARZ needs to stabilize the OL and land a couple of more weapons for Rosen. He will end up on IR after a game or two with this line.

 

[DVontel]

IMO I take the KC model of sitting Mahomes a year. Look at the kid now, Reid looks like a genius moving on from Smith.

ARZ needs to stabilize the OL and land a couple of more weapons for Rosen. He will end up on IR after a game or two with this line.

OL not nearly as bad as some are making it out to be.