10 thoughts - training camp

[PJ1]

I’m hoping Isaiah Simmons is put back at linebacker to start the season. Don’t ever recall players 6-4 240 being able to cover Wide Receivers worth a damn. The only thing that can improve this team is coaching because they definitely didn’t improve the roster.

Agree. Never understood this as an option. We will find out soon enough.

 

[PACardsFan]

Allen, Watt and Golden to Thomas, Watkins and Gardeck…not an upgrade

True, but you’re not taking into account that just getting rid of the culture of Kingsbury & VJ can make this an upgrade.

 

[kerouac9]

True, but you’re not taking into account that just getting rid of the culture of Kingsbury & VJ can make this an upgrade.

There's nothing that will turn Watkins into J.J. Watt.

Maybe nanobots.

 

[PACardsFan]

There's nothing that will turn Watkins into J.J. Watt.

Maybe nanobots.

And having Watt did NOTHING to reverse a 4-13 season. A better player means nothing if the system he played in was flawed and the creator of that system was even more flawed.

 

[kerouac9]

And having Watt did NOTHING to reverse a 4-13 season. A better player means nothing if the system he played in was flawed and the creator of that system was even more flawed.

You're changing the subject. The answer to improving on a 4-13 season isn't to get rid of your best players and replace them with guys who can't regularly start on their previous teams. That isn't a path forward.

The question under consideration is are there any positions that Monti managed to upgrade the Cards from the 2023 roster, and the only actual answer is (speculatively) wherever Paris Johnson Jr. ends up playing (which is weird that we don't have a known role for our top pick!).

One assumes that with better talent the Cards could outperform bad talent in the same system. Zach Allen in this system should be much better than Watkins.

 

[Garthshort]

#3-I think we all hope that we show some 'life'. But until we get KM on the field we can't make an informed projection.

 

[BulldogCard]

Well Kyler Murray gets put on PUP, 1st mistake.. this organization makes bad decisions.. I'd juice him out for all he is worth and I think he responds better to that. It's going to be a nightmare bringing him back mid season when Aaron Donald and company have already warmed themselves up and are looking to destroy quarterbacks.

 

[QuebecCard]

And having Watt did NOTHING to reverse a 4-13 season. A better player means nothing if the system he played in was flawed and the creator of that system was even more flawed.

If the 'creator' was as flawed as you think, he wouldn't be the DC in Denver.

 

[QuebecCard]

Well Kyler Murray gets put on PUP, 1st mistake.. this organization makes bad decisions.. I'd juice him out for all he is worth and I think he responds better to that. It's going to be a nightmare bringing him back mid season when Aaron Donald and company have already warmed themselves up and are looking to destroy quarterbacks.

What?

They can take him off PUP at any point, and it only affects actual games if he's there when the season begins.

 

[BulldogCard]

What?

They can take him off PUP at any point, and it only affects actual games if he's there when the season begins.

Camp time is precious

 

[PACardsFan]

You're changing the subject. The answer to improving on a 4-13 season isn't to get rid of your best players and replace them with guys who can't regularly start on their previous teams. That isn't a path forward.

The question under consideration is are there any positions that Monti managed to upgrade the Cards from the 2023 roster, and the only actual answer is (speculatively) wherever Paris Johnson Jr. ends up playing (which is weird that we don't have a known role for our top pick!).

One assumes that with better talent the Cards could outperform bad talent in the same system. Zach Allen in this system should be much better than Watkins.

You’re failing to mention that we didn’t just ”get rid” of players from a 4-13 team. They had to be re-signed to contracts that may or may not fit into the direction this team will take moving forward. Not only were Allen & Murphy injury prone, but they would come with a sticker price that wasn’t conducive. They would do us no good if they’re spending as much time in the training room moving forward as they have in the past.

Monti and JG were brought in to create a better system of scouting talent, developing talent, emphasizing winning behaviors, and keeping talent to create sustainable success. Hence, a new scouting department, a significantly larger emphasis on accountability, and a coaching staff that will no doubt be better at player development than what we had with KK/VJ. impossible to turn a franchise around in one offseason, but MOJG are laying a foundation that is far more likely to produce sustainable success than any plan I’ve seen in the 60 years that I’ve followed this franchise. Whine if you want, but 2023 is just the beginning.

 

[kerouac9]

You’re failing to mention that we didn’t just ”get rid” of players from a 4-13 team. They had to be re-signed to contracts that may or may not fit into the direction this team will take moving forward. Not only were Allen & Murphy injury prone, but they would come with a sticker price that wasn’t conducive. They would do us no good if they’re spending as much time in the training room moving forward as they have in the past.

Monti and JG were brought in to create a better system of scouting talent, developing talent, emphasizing winning behaviors, and keeping talent to create sustainable success. Hence, a new scouting department, a significantly larger emphasis on accountability, and a coaching staff that will no doubt be better at player development than what we had with KK/VJ. impossible to turn a franchise around in one offseason, but MOJG are laying a foundation that is far more likely to produce sustainable success than any plan I’ve seen in the 60 years that I’ve followed this franchise. Whine if you want, but 2023 is just the beginning.

Tell that to the New York Giants.

Dude, everyone gets it: You LOVE management 100% all the time. Until they're fired, and then they were the worst people ever.

How well did Monti and JG scout B.J. Ojulari? What have they done to earn your trust and faith besides not be Kliff and Keim?

 

[MadCardDisease]

You're changing the subject. The answer to improving on a 4-13 season isn't to get rid of your best players and replace them with guys who can't regularly start on their previous teams. That isn't a path forward.

The question under consideration is are there any positions that Monti managed to upgrade the Cards from the 2023 roster, and the only actual answer is (speculatively) wherever Paris Johnson Jr. ends up playing (which is weird that we don't have a known role for our top pick!).

One assumes that with better talent the Cards could outperform bad talent in the same system. Zach Allen in this system should be much better than Watkins.

Watt retired so there is nothing the Cardinals could do about that.

Would Zach Allen help this team? Probably.

Would re-signing Zach Allen improve the win total this year? I don't think he moves the needle any.

I think it is clear that the Cardinals are doing a one year punt with the 2023 season. Improving on the 2022 win total isn't the top of the priority list at this point. The 2023 season is all about changing the culture and finding out who is worth keeping around for the push next season.

 

[PACardsFan]

If the 'creator' was as flawed as you think, he wouldn't be the DC in Denver.

VJ never was held accountable under weakling KK. That won’t be the case under Payton. And VJ had no desire to develop young talent. Lucky for him, Denver already has a talented D. He HAS to have that otherwise he’s a below average DC.

 

[kerouac9]

Watt retired so there is nothing the Cardinals could do about that.

Would Zach Allen help this team? Probably.

Would re-signing Zach Allen improve the win total this year? I don't think he moves the needle any.

I think it is clear that the Cardinals are doing a one year punt with the 2023 season. Improving on the 2022 win total isn't the top of the priority list at this point. The 2023 season is all about changing the culture and finding out who is worth keeping around for the push next season.

Zach Allen on a three-year deal means you have one position you don't have to worry about for two years after this one (without affecting your silent goal of being extremely bad in 2023). That's still a good thing.

Same with Byron Murphy.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Zach Allen on a three-year deal means you have one position you don't have to worry about for two years after this one (without affecting your silent goal of being extremely bad in 2023). That's still a good thing.

Same with Byron Murphy.

We've been through this all offseason and we will have to agree to disagree.

I have no problem not overpaying for Zach Allen who is average at best.

 

[CardsFan88]

Zach Allen and Byron Murphy were not overpaid (unless Murphy's medicals are really bad, and even then 1 yr deal, so...)

At some point we need to get guys in here, and odds are if we are looking for a Zach Allen type replacement (young, ascending) next fa or the one after, we aren't getting one nearly as good for 15 mill per. There likely won't be one out there for any team to snatch at that price level, and if there was somehow one, I'd be hard pressed to say he'd choose us.

 

[Totally_Red]

On #6, I'll believe it when I see it on Murray's leadership. His tendency to melt down under pressure will the test of his leadership or lack thereof.

 

[PACardsFan]

Tell that to the New York Giants.

Dude, everyone gets it: You LOVE management 100% all the time. Until they're fired, and then they were the worst people ever.

How well did Monti and JG scout B.J. Ojulari? What have they done to earn your trust and faith besides not be Kliff and Keim?

Really dude? I was a Whiz fan, and yes, that resulted in the only SB berth I’ve seen in my lifetime. I was a BA fan, and yes, he turned out to be our best HC in Cardinal history. I was not a fan of hiring Wilks or KK, but once hired, I INITIALLY supported both. Because as a fan, IMO, that’s what you do.

So I guess you’re already writing off Ojulari? A tad hasty, don’t you think? And just for the record, MO had to depend on Keim’s existing scouting department this year. Either way, Ojulari will be just fine. If by now, if you can’t see the difference between BOJG & SKKK, then you just don’t want to see it. BOJG actually have a well documented plan to achieve sustainable success. SKKK had Murray in his Superman cape & a ton of bandaids.

 

[kerouac9]

If by now, if you can’t see the difference between BOJG & SKKK, then you just don’t want to see it. BOJG actually have a well documented plan to achieve sustainable success. SKKK had Murray in his Superman cape & a ton of bandaids.

How can you say this after one day of camp? Get real.

Please share the documentation of the plan. I have yet to see it.

 

[PACardsFan]

How can you say this after one day of camp? Get real.

Please share the documentation of the plan. I have yet to see it.

I guess MOJG have only been here a day??? You really have been living in a cave Lol. Get off your butt & go find it. It’s really easy to find. They’ve only been preaching it from day one.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Camp time is precious

So what, while he should be rehabbing, he should be watching the other players participate in camp? If he was ready to participate in camp, he wouldn't have been put on PUP.

Weird take.

 

[cardpa]

Allen was never resigning so any and all arguments about whether he would have helped the defense or impacted it are irrelevant. He is starry eyed for VJ and would probably follow him to the ends of the earth. As for Murphy he was a conundrum in that he missed a fair amount of time and was not going to impact the defense to any extent. It's not like he was some kind of ball hawk or shutdown corner. He would have been a decent starter who would be overpaid for what he brought to the table.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

And just for the record, MO had to depend on Keim’s existing scouting department this year.

Strange that he hasn't gotten rid of them yet and brought in his own guys

Long past the draft

 

[PACardsFan]

Strange that he hasn't gotten rid of them yet and brought in his own guys

Long past the draft

How do we know he hasn’t? And I’m sure he’s not disposing of everyone.