10 thoughts - training camp

[Chopper0080]

4.

So then why would you expect Petzing to produce a worse offense than Kliff?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Our offense ranked by yards per game over the past few years.
2019: 21st
2020: 6th
2021: 9th
2022: 22nd

2018: 32nd

Last year was bad, just remember we haven't hit rock bottom yet. There are offenses even worse than Kliff's; 2018 wasn't that long ago.

The way I see it is our new offense seems to be built around the running game and I'm not entirely confident in our current rosters ability be successful with that approach. That combined with Kyler being out makes worry the offense will be painful to watch for the first part of this year.

Right. I’ve long thought keim and kliff were bad at their jobs. But doesn’t mean I believe they were the worst ones at each ever. All this “the new guys can’t be worse than keim and kliff” talk is ignoring that others in the nfl have been worse than them and no one knew that when those guys were hired. The current front office and coaching absolutely could be worse. Just assuming they’re better because keim and kliff sucked is just faulty reasoning.

 

[Chopper0080]

Right. I’ve long thought keim and kliff were bad at their jobs. But doesn’t mean I believe they were the worst ones at each ever. All this “the new guys can’t be worse than keim and kliff” talk is ignoring that others in the nfl have been worse than them and no one knew that when those guys were hired. The current front office and coaching absolutely could be worse. Just assuming they’re better because keim and kliff sucked is just faulty reasoning.

Agree with this so much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Except that just about everyone connected to the team, players, staff, coaches etc are saying how much better, hell just about everything is. We can either take them at their word, or say that it is 'coachspeak.' I'm choosing the former.

This is said about every regime change in the history of football.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Different and unproven doesn't always equate to better. We are worse in talent. Unproven in GM, HC and OC.

Not always, but likely in this scenario.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So then why would you expect Petzing to produce a worse offense than Kliff?

Because at the moment, we have arguably less talent and most offenses don't become good overnight. Do I think we start super slow, and then trend upwards towards the end of the season? Yes. Could that mean that we have an equal or worse offense at the end of the year, I could see it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Right. I’ve long thought keim and kliff were bad at their jobs. But doesn’t mean I believe they were the worst ones at each ever. All this “the new guys can’t be worse than keim and kliff” talk is ignoring that others in the nfl have been worse than them and no one knew that when those guys were hired. The current front office and coaching absolutely could be worse. Just assuming they’re better because keim and kliff sucked is just faulty reasoning.

I have stuck up for Kliff quite a bit in the past. I didn't think he is the worst coach ever. He wasn't even our worst coach in the past 5 years.
Keim has been terrible at his job, failing upwards for most of his career. He did do some good though, including the DJ/D-Hop and Chandler Jones trades.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not always, but likely in this scenario.

I think it is as likely Petzing is closer to Mike McCoy as an OC than Kliff.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Going into the season I thought the Cardinals had zero chance to win a game.

After watching a couple training camp practices and seeing an actual NFL offense being implemented I'm convinced that the Cardinals might actually win 2-3 games this year and be competitive in several more games. This new staff appears to know what they are doing. There is definitely a different vibe in camp this season and that is a good thing.

What I see now is a team with a chip on their shoulder. The types of players that Monti has brought appear to be the types who won't just roll over and play dead. They are going to fight to the bitter end. Yes they are not as talented or deep as most teams out there. Yes there are going to be a bunch of growing pains this season. I still believe that this staff will have this team ready to play.

The problem is there are still massive holes on the roster and a general lack of depth. That is why I don't see much more than 2-3 wins. However I believe this team will be much easier to root for than that abomination of inmates running the asylum that Keim and Kliff rolled out last season.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think it is as likely Petzing is closer to Mike McCoy as an OC than Kliff.

Super hard to quantify, but I would wager actual money that Petzing will do a better job as an OC than McCoy.

 

[Chopper0080]

Super hard to quantify, but I would wager actual money that Petzing will do a better job as an OC than McCoy.

Well, McCoy trotted out a historically bad offense for the Cardinals so the bar was not set very high.

 

[SoonerLou]

I think it is as likely Petzing is closer to Mike McCoy as an OC than Kliff.

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[MadCardDisease]

Well, McCoy trotted out a historically bad offense for the Cardinals so the bar was not set very high.

We don't really know what Petzing's offense will look like or how he will do as a OC. However we all knew that McCoy was a terrible OC. So at least with Petzing there is hope.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Overall, this team HAS improved from last year. I don't even think that it should be up for debate.

this is one of the most insane statements I’ve ever seen on this board.

We are unanimously picked to be the worst team in the league. Sadly, that IS worse or at least equal to last year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

this is one of the most insane statements I’ve ever seen on this board.

Thanks!

We are unanimously picked to be the worst team in the league. Sadly, that IS worse or at least equal to last year.

We are picked to be the worst in the league, in part , due to how we ended last year as well as what is expected this year.

Pundits never get it wrong right? Do I think we will be bad, yes. Do I think we will be better than most say we will, yes.

If you think we will be the worst team in the league as calculated by draft order, let's have a wager. I say we won't. $25 to the winner's charity of choice. Thoughts?
If the Cards pick #1 overall due to their record, you win. If we don't, I win.
(Houston's draft pick doesn't count, only the Cards pick)

 

[MadCardDisease]

The Cardinals barely won 4 games last year. Only the lowly Bears and Texans had a worse record.

Are we really arguing about whether the 2022 or 2023 team is going to be worse? Is there a special prize if the Cardinals get 5 wins vs 3 wins this year? I don't know but it all seems kind of silly.

What I do know is the Cardinals are in full rebuild mode. It is out with the old and in with the new. I'm just excited to see the Cardinals moving in a new direction under new leadership.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Different and unproven doesn't always equate to better. We are worse in talent. Unproven in GM, HC and OC.

Bingo.

 

[SoonerLou]

No Keim and Vance means the Cards are automatically better. Even when the Cards were "good" the foundation was still poor because of Keim.

Obviously might be tough in terms of wins. However, I feel like the disappointments and just overall frustration will not be there cause we're actually building towards something. Instead of Keim's band aids, not developing prospects, etc etc. We actually having a plan now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thanks!

We are picked to be the worst in the league, in part , due to how we ended last year as well as what is expected this year.

what is your point and what’s the difference. The reason we’re picked to be worst this year is because the league thinks we actually got worse from our terrible season last year.

Pundits never get it wrong right? Do I think we will be bad, yes. Do I think we will be better than most say we will, yes.

Yeah… you also thought we’d be better last year. How’d that work out for you.

If you think we will be the worst team in the league as calculated by draft order, let's have a wager.

I don’t know if we’ll be the worst team in the league. We’re picked that way and I THINK we have a great chance to meet those pathetic expectations, but it’s possible we’re just amongst the worst of the worst. Not that we will be the worst without debate.

My contention is that it’s ridiculous to say they’ll be better than last year and “that’s not even debatable”. Those were YOUR words. Again, it’s debatable if we’re the worst this year. I don’t think there’s a strong case to say we won’t be, but it could be argued. But to say it’s not debatable that this team will without a doubt be better is an argument completely without Evie cr. They don’t have to be the worst team in the league to be as bad or worse than last year so that wager would be stupid to take on my part.

I say we won't. $25 to the winner's charity of choice. Thoughts?
If the Cards pick #1 overall due to their record, you win. If we don't, I win.
(Houston's draft pick doesn't count, only the Cards pick)

No. You basically get the field in that deal and I’m stuck with the end of a bet I never stated to be an unequivocal fact like you did.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No Keim and Vance means the Cards are automatically better. Even when the Cards were "good" the foundation was still poor because of Keim.

Obviously might be tough in terms of wins. However, I feel like the disappointments and just overall frustration will not be there cause we're actually building towards something. Instead of Keim's band aids, not developing prospects, etc etc. We actually having a plan now.

I really don’t get this. Our entire FA this year consisted of 1 year band-aids… but not even brand name band-aids at Rite-Aid, grabbing a full box of low-grade band-aids from the 99 cent store instead.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

what is your point and what’s the difference.

My point is there IS a difference. You don't think that the NFL and the pundits don't look at last year to help determine what will happen this year? If our team won 3 of the last four games, would they still have predicted what they did?

The reason we’re picked to be worst this year is because the league thinks we actually got worse from our terrible season last year.

Your opinion is different than mine.

Yeah… you also thought we’d be better last year. How’d that work out for you.

Stooping to this I see. Not surprised. No one is right all of the time. Not you, not me, not even Einstein. You might want to check your holier than thou attitude, it isn't becoming.

My contention is that it’s ridiculous to say they’ll be better than last year and “that’s not even debatable”. Those were YOUR words.

No, I said OUR TEAM IS BETTER. If you are going to quote someone, at least have the decency to quote them in context. Especially after I explained my opinion further.

Again, it’s debatable if we’re the worst this year. I don’t think there’s a strong case to say we won’t be, but it could be argued.

Fine, you win. I still don't see how our team isn't better than last year. And it is other people that is deciding what I meant by that comment, instead of taking what I clarified later. But, I'll concede since you aren't the only one questioning my opinion. There is a debate.

But to say it’s not debatable that this team will without a doubt be better is an argument completely without Evie cr. They don’t have to be the worst team in the league to be as bad or worse than last year so that wager would be stupid to take on my part.

See above.

No. You basically get the field in that deal and I’m stuck with the end of a bet I never stated to be an unequivocal fact like you did.

What fact did I unequivocally said what exactly? Are you confusing my opinion as fact?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I really don’t get this. Our entire FA this year consisted of 1 year band-aids… but not even brand name band-aids at Rite-Aid, grabbing a full box of low-grade band-aids from the 99 cent store instead.

...and it isn't the only thing that was in our offseason.

We got rid of our GM and HC which I can confidently say that most people here think is the right move.
We seemingly drafted well, but like all draft picks, it is yet to be determined. Although at least two of them has earned nationwide media attention.
We picked up a lot of draft capital to help us in future years.
The locker room culture has appeared to change according to everyone involved with the team.

There are some reasons to have optimism, even if we didn't sign any marquee free agents this year.

 

[CardLogic]

Expecting your team to improve every offseason through free agency and the draft should be realistic.

It can be argued that it is obviously the goal for every team in the league, to improve every offseason. BUT, the statement is the opposite of realistic, it's fantasy.

 

[Stout]

The Cardinals barely won 4 games last year. Only the lowly Bears and Texans had a worse record.

Are we really arguing about whether the 2022 or 2023 team is going to be worse? Is there a special prize if the Cardinals get 5 wins vs 3 wins this year? I don't know but it all seems kind of silly.

What I do know is the Cardinals are in full rebuild mode. It is out with the old and in with the new. I'm just excited to see the Cardinals moving in a new direction under new leadership.

Well, to be fair, it's more "out with the old, and someday we'll bring in some new talent in FA"

 

[Stout]

I really don’t get this. Our entire FA this year consisted of 1 year band-aids… but not even brand name band-aids at Rite-Aid, grabbing a full box of low-grade band-aids from the 99 cent store instead.

Bingo. The plan seems to be a 3 or more year rebuild in a quick turnaround league. Not a wise plan.