10 thoughts - training camp

[Snakester]

Dude. Look at the defense again.

Also, I know that JG has managed to influence Michael Bidwill, but isn't it a little possible that this guy's act wears a little thin when we start 1-11?

That picture of Gannon reminds me of Pee Wee Herman.

 

[pemory09]

That picture of Gannon reminds me of Pee Wee Herman.

Coach Pee Wee?

 

[football karma]

I know that JG has managed to influence Michael Bidwill, but isn't it a little possible that this guy's act wears a little thin when we start 1-11?

quoting this for context for a general question:

based on the roster, what is the over/under on wins per the board? 4? 3?

I am just trying to figure out the "met expectations" win total for the staff.

because its a 100% certainty that at some point this season, more than 1 poster will be calling for JG to be fired.

 

[kerouac9]

I’d set the O/U at 3.5 for wins for the team. Peak Belichek/Carrol/Reid might get 5 wins from a roster this bad.

That’s why I always ask people how they measure success with this coaching staff outside of wins and losses — I think it’s gonna be exceedingly hard to tell.

Someone calls for the coach to be fired every year on this board. The window of opportunity to make the team competitive this season is firmly closed. I think we’re in a holding pattern to determine whether Kyler Murray can overcome adversity or if we’re drafting Caleb Williams.

Might not happen until November.

 

[football karma]

That’s why I always ask people how they measure success with this coaching staff outside of wins and losses — I think it’s gonna be exceedingly hard to tell.

I am thinking in tiers almost regardless of wins:

Below expectations: uncompetitive and disorganized. Poor effort would a real problem here.

Met expectations: competitive in 2/3 of games or more --- high effort to the end, the offense in the 2nd half looks at least NFL average.

Exceeds expectations: competitive in nearly every game / 50% come down to the last 5 mins (1 score or less in that period). Look like they know what they're doing in situational football even if the plays arent made. Kyler looks like at least 2020 Kyler in the 2nd half in the new offense. This scenario likely implies an offense good enough to win games but a defense that cant stop people in critical situations.

and yes, 90% of this is super subjective

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I think we’re in a holding pattern to determine whether Kyler Murray can overcome adversity or if we’re drafting Caleb Williams.

Agree

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're right. They should have signed someone as productive as D-Hop, there's so many you can shake a stick at them.
Or use a Jedi mind trick to convince JJ to not retire.

Just because staying level or upgrading may have been difficult doesn’t mean that downgraded should be considered an upgrade.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

True, but you’re not taking into account that just getting rid of the culture of Kingsbury & VJ can make this an upgrade.

While true on macro basis that has no bearing on the players themselves being considered upgrades.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BOJG actually have a well documented plan to achieve sustainable success. SKKK had Murray in his Superman cape & a ton of bandaids.

I think seeing one year of them deconstructing a team is a weird item to hang this particular hat on, but that’s just me . . .

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just because staying level or upgrading may have been difficult doesn’t mean that downgraded should be considered an upgrade.

Looking at a player that is an absolute shoo-in for the Hall of Fame that retired last year and expecting us to upgrade at the position is being disingenuous at best.

At least you can make an argument with D-Hop, as the club cut him. But after they went that way, you (as a fanbase) shouldn't expect an upgrade at his position. He's arguably top 5 at his position. Fans expecting upgrades at BOTH positions should re-evaluate.

 

[kerouac9]

Looking at a player that is an absolute shoo-in for the Hall of Fame that retired last year and expecting us to upgrade at the position is being disingenuous at best.

At least you can make an argument with D-Hop, as the club cut him. But after they went that way, you (as a fanbase) shouldn't expect an upgrade at his position. He's arguably top 5 at his position. Fans expecting upgrades at BOTH positions should re-evaluate.

But fans expecting upgrades or equivalent players at those positions or on the DL or at CB should just **** and stop complaining.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

But fans expecting upgrades or equivalent players at those positions or on the DL or at CB should just **** and stop complaining.

Complain if you want to. I don't know why you wouldn't want to have realistic expectations though.

 

[kerouac9]

Complain if you want to. I don't know why you wouldn't want to have realistic expectations though.

Expecting your team to improve every offseason through free agency and the draft should be realistic.

 

[lobo]

I’d set the O/U at 3.5 for wins for the team. Peak Belichek/Carrol/Reid might get 5 wins from a roster this bad.

That’s why I always ask people how they measure success with this coaching staff outside of wins and losses — I think it’s gonna be exceedingly hard to tell.

Someone calls for the coach to be fired every year on this board. The window of opportunity to make the team competitive this season is firmly closed. I think we’re in a holding pattern to determine whether Kyler Murray can overcome adversity or if we’re drafting Caleb Williams.

Might not happen until November.

Can you define what competitive is from your prospective?

 

[lobo]

I am thinking in tiers almost regardless of wins:

Below expectations: uncompetitive and disorganized. Poor effort would a real problem here.

Met expectations: competitive in 2/3 of games or more --- high effort to the end, the offense in the 2nd half looks at least NFL average.

Exceeds expectations: competitive in nearly every game / 50% come down to the last 5 mins (1 score or less in that period). Look like they know what they're doing in situational football even if the plays arent made. Kyler looks like at least 2020 Kyler in the 2nd half in the new offense. This scenario likely implies an offense good enough to win games but a defense that cant stop people in critical situations.

and yes, 90% of this is super subjective

Well put! Before writing this note I offered one of our compatriots an opportunity to define competitive. You did it quite well. Key words (high effort to the end) will be the indicator that the team and mgt. are on the right track after last years train wreck.

 

[kerouac9]

Can you define what competitive is from your prospective?

For this team or in general? Are you asking what my standards for success for this team are?

 

[lobo]

For this team or in general? Are you asking what my standards for success for this team are?

For this team as you see it now

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Expecting your team to improve every offseason through free agency and the draft should be realistic.

Overall, this team HAS improved from last year. I don't even think that it should be up for debate.

 

[kerouac9]

For this team as you see it now

It's a hard question for me, because I don't expect this team to be very competitive this year. Based on what I believe about where this team is right now, I'd love to see this team be better than the 2022 Houston Texans. To wit:

- Better than 3-13-1
- More than eight games decided by a TD or less
- Fewer than three games decided by 14+ points
- Better than 20th in scoring offense or offensive DVOA
- Better than 25th in scoring defense or defensive DOVA

Overall, this team HAS improved from last year. I don't even think that it should be up for debate.

Do tell. Where is the 2023 team demonstrably better on the field than the 2022 team?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Looking at a player that is an absolute shoo-in for the Hall of Fame that retired last year and expecting us to upgrade at the position is being disingenuous at best.

At least you can make an argument with D-Hop, as the club cut him. But after they went that way, you (as a fanbase) shouldn't expect an upgrade at his position. He's arguably top 5 at his position. Fans expecting upgrades at BOTH positions should re-evaluate.

You were the one using the term “upgrade.” We were explaining that they were not “upgrades.” No one has said anything about “expecting upgrades.”

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You were the one using the term “upgrade.” We were explaining that they were not “upgrades.”

I was using the term upgrade, because others mentioned it before me.

No one has said anything about “expecting upgrades.”

K9 specifically mentioned about expecting upgrades just today.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Overall, this team HAS improved from last year. I don't even think that it should be up for debate.

I have no idea how you can say this definitively much less removing it from debate. We haven’t even seen a scrimmage.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Do tell. Where is the 2023 team demonstrably better on the field than the 2022 team?

This team is demonstrably better in their front office, which in turn should make them better long term. Hell, it might even short term, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you want a specific answer... they should be demonstrably better at the RT position.

 

[kerouac9]

This team is demonstrably better in their front office, which in turn should make them better long term. Hell, it might even short term, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If you want a specific answer... they should be demonstrably better at the RT position.

So you're confident one position out of 22 is better in 2023 than 2022.

Ring the bells.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I have no idea how you can say this definitively much less removing it from debate. We haven’t even seen a scrimmage.

I had so little faith in Keim, that nearly anyone with a pulse could have done better. Throw in the fact that I have been somewhat impressed with how this offseason has gone after the hiring of Monti/Gannon...