kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Okay, but what metric do you have to offer that suggests that Keim is anything other than execrable in the War Room?
15 thoughts - draft
- Thread starter Gandhi
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Okay, but what metric do you have to offer that suggests that Keim is anything other than execrable in the War Room?
Jack Anderson is a good call. Four year starter with good technique. I'm not sure I want a development guy though, just because we have shown we such at developing guys. When was the last time we took a raw lower round pick and turned them into a good starter?
If were going to plug that last hole in the O line I think I'd want to do it with a quality pick.
I like Chris Evans too but surely he's going to go undrafted. He has nice vision but he's just about to turn 24 and lost reps last year to other RB's.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Good joke! The opposition coached to maximize what you consider a poor player's abilities? How unique an approach!
Parsons is a beast.
Bkbobo
Hall of Famer
Here is an additional thought. I believe either Kirk or Isabella, if not both, will be draft day trades.
nobody is trading for Andy Isabella
juza76
ASFN Icon
About Kirk there is not need to trade him, he is in the last year of his contract, he is a 700/800 yards guy and we couldn't get more then a fourth for him, so I would prefer to keep him
For Isabella, at best u can get a 7th round pick
He dropped into coverage a total of 4 times in his college career. I'm not saying he can't do it, he's a good athlete, but he doesn't have a lot of experience doing it which will be a concern for many in todays NFL.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
If true that’s an alarming lack of data regarding something upon which I’d base drafting him.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
He had five pass breakups, so I’m heavily doubting the “4” claim. Are you meaning man-to-man coverage verses dropping back into zone coverage?
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I'd play Micah Parsons as an edge in our system. His size/speed ratio could turn him into a top sack guy. That's why I WOULD heavily consider him.
Yes, man coverage responsibilities.
As a LB in the NFL you have to be able to cover a TE or RB at least.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Unless your team deploys heavy inside zone scheme.
AZCrazy
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I wasn't defending Keim. Just saying that those charts measure nothing.
Keim's charts have been terrible. We tend to have a proximity bias where we only are aware of what Keim does. Every GM's drafts suck, if you're looking for a player to come out of every pick. I'd say Keim's drafts have been fairly average except in the first round where he hasn't come through with a whole lot of guaranteed players.
Jonathan Cooper. Supposed to be one of the best ever. Seemed like a solid pick, but there's no metric for how a guy responds when the chips are down.
Deone Bucannon. Solid pick at the time. They seemed to be reinventing NFL defensed for the first few years, based on the plaudits of the national media. Turns out they just kept playing him in the wrong place. 6'0", 210 isn't a middle linebacker. He would have been a savage strong safety, which he was in college. This one may be more on the coaching. Guys tend to fall in love with their own plans.
DJ Humphries. Starting long term left tackle. Not a Hall of Famer probably, but he's been the first successful first round pick the Cards have made on the offensive line sine the early 80's.
Robert Nkdemiche. First round dropper who fell into our laps. The critique on him at that time was that he had limited production for unlimited potential. Turns out they were right. Seemed to be happy not to have a second contract.
Haason Reddick. This one was a reach that seemed to turn out in the end. He was the other kid who was played out of position for years until they cut that crap out and he finally flourished. He wasn't a genius, but they still made him learn a different position every year. He popped well and he's gone so that we could hang on to Golden. Probably even up trade
Josh Rosen. Well, there were four big quarterbacks that year and we needed one, so we traded up to get the last of them. I remember being happy at the time. Rosen hasn't worked out anywhere he's been yet, but this poor guy can't seem to find a team that isn't tanking. He was forced to work in the Wilks/McCoy year, with a fully injured Offensive Line. I'm amazed he won 3 games. Anyway, Keim showed a bit of mettle the next year.
Kyler Murray. First time ever holding the top pick. Other than his height, Murray was the complete package and has played largely like it in his two years. Took the team from three wins to five to eight, and would have had more if we had a reliable kicking game. Pretty good outcome so far for a 21 year old rook. Surround him with a good line and some decent skill position players besides Hopkins, and he'll shine.
So about 50% hits on first rounders. Not great, not terrible. A lot of them seemed like excellent picks at the time. Look at most other teams and their first round picks are usually hitting at the same rate. A few have a better run, and they turn into playoff teams.
I think with the addition of Malcolm Butler, our primary need right now is WR. Not a popular opinion but really we've got Hop and some role players. For a high flying Offense, more is necessary.
Keim's charts have been terrible. We tend to have a proximity bias where we only are aware of what Keim does. Every GM's drafts suck, if you're looking for a player to come out of every pick. I'd say Keim's drafts have been fairly average except in the first round where he hasn't come through with a whole lot of guaranteed players.
Jonathan Cooper. Supposed to be one of the best ever. Seemed like a solid pick, but there's no metric for how a guy responds when the chips are down.
Deone Bucannon. Solid pick at the time. They seemed to be reinventing NFL defensed for the first few years, based on the plaudits of the national media. Turns out they just kept playing him in the wrong place. 6'0", 210 isn't a middle linebacker. He would have been a savage strong safety, which he was in college. This one may be more on the coaching. Guys tend to fall in love with their own plans.
DJ Humphries. Starting long term left tackle. Not a Hall of Famer probably, but he's been the first successful first round pick the Cards have made on the offensive line sine the early 80's.
Robert Nkdemiche. First round dropper who fell into our laps. The critique on him at that time was that he had limited production for unlimited potential. Turns out they were right. Seemed to be happy not to have a second contract.
Haason Reddick. This one was a reach that seemed to turn out in the end. He was the other kid who was played out of position for years until they cut that crap out and he finally flourished. He wasn't a genius, but they still made him learn a different position every year. He popped well and he's gone so that we could hang on to Golden. Probably even up trade
Josh Rosen. Well, there were four big quarterbacks that year and we needed one, so we traded up to get the last of them. I remember being happy at the time. Rosen hasn't worked out anywhere he's been yet, but this poor guy can't seem to find a team that isn't tanking. He was forced to work in the Wilks/McCoy year, with a fully injured Offensive Line. I'm amazed he won 3 games. Anyway, Keim showed a bit of mettle the next year.
Kyler Murray. First time ever holding the top pick. Other than his height, Murray was the complete package and has played largely like it in his two years. Took the team from three wins to five to eight, and would have had more if we had a reliable kicking game. Pretty good outcome so far for a 21 year old rook. Surround him with a good line and some decent skill position players besides Hopkins, and he'll shine.
So about 50% hits on first rounders. Not great, not terrible. A lot of them seemed like excellent picks at the time. Look at most other teams and their first round picks are usually hitting at the same rate. A few have a better run, and they turn into playoff teams.
I think with the addition of Malcolm Butler, our primary need right now is WR. Not a popular opinion but really we've got Hop and some role players. For a high flying Offense, more is necessary.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
You seem to misunderstand what a metric is.
Arz101
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Any takers for this....
I will donate my share for a billboard on I-10 and Warner exit to show this image. Bidwill needs to see this team is the worst in NFL when it comes to drafting under Keim.
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I will donate my share for a billboard on I-10 and Warner exit to show this image. Bidwill needs to see this team is the worst in NFL when it comes to drafting under Keim.
Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
I would take AVT in a heartbeat
I must say that it excites me that you say that. I thought long about including me in my mock draft (in the fifth round, by the way), but decided against it because I thought “he” was already on the roster and thus that the pick could be used wiser. As I said, I also like Williams in a more general perspective, so if you think there is a place for him (it is not like Keesean Johnson has set the stage on fire, but still…) I would use a pick on him – especially if they don’t get a wide receiver in the two first rounds.
You are definitely correct, but I trust in Sean Kugler. And if Anderson fits what Kingsbury wants to do, then it seems to me that it would make good sense. I do think that the two guard spots will be fine, and thus they can bring Anderson along slowly.
This I disagree with. I like Evans a lot, and it has also been reported that several teams are high on him. I expect him to be drafted.
I'm pretty sure Bidwill already knows & doesn't care.
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
But that isn't the assumption being discussed here or anywhere else. The general measure is whether one team's draft picks are generating more value (by whatever metric you like) than another team's (or the league average) over time.
Here's an analysis from last season that also puts Keim in the bottom five of the NFL in pretty much every metric.
Even if you're right, and Keim is just an average GM "except in the first round", I don't know why you'd settle for that. The Cards will always be below average in that case.
tnmike
Hall of Famer
Any extra money I spend will be on something constructive, like giving to a good charity.
BK, if anyone pays anything for Andy Isabella, I think every criticism of Keim’s abilities on draft weekend needs to stop. It would be a masterpiece.
