2006 World Cup

[arthurracoon]

The ITalian commentator on ESPN said the americans were robbed. And he was saying how awful we were before the match started and that Italy would crush us. So I would say for him to say we were robbed is enough for me.

 

[CaptTurbo]

P.S.: You would then notice that there will be no reason to go over the cliff if the US would win (which very well could happen at some time, but I doubt that they will dominate like you predict). I like the US. Many others around the world do, too. Even you will not change that Oh, just one last thing: That doesnt mean that we have to agree with everything you say and think.

First, I know many europeans that would simply die if we won because they know (by living here) that these are not our top athletes. It would be like Russia winning the superbowl with whatever athletes they have left over after filling their top sports.

Second, if you didnt bust out the "People like you guys make me not want to rout for the US" you wouldnt have gotten the attitude I gave you.

 

[Ollie]

Ok Nate, Ollie, etc - Do you HONESTLY believe that Mastroeni would have been given a red card if the Italian player had not been red carded earlier? It was a foul, and a stupid one at that, but not a red card foul by any means - yellow card was warranted - that is all.

And a well-deserved draw? - the U.S. got screwed on that one as well.

It was a harsh sliding tackle with both feets, coming from behind and straight on Pirlo's ankle (Mastroeni DID miss the ball). That's deserving a straight red card according to FIFA rules (and in my book too).

But in my opinion, the main problem with refereeing during WC is the lack of consistency from one game to another. (I guess there's too many cultural differences between refs : Mastroeni sliding tackle would maybe have been a yellow card in EPL).
Some refs are cool and go with the flow of the game, and others are hard and blow their whistles on every possible occasion.

Unfortunately for Mastroeni, his foul was just under the nose of the ref and came shortly after De Rossi's red book (would have been a yellow card in EPL too... j/k). I think US players didn't realized that this ref was really strict, prone to book players and not afraid to send them to the showers early. You need to adapt to the way the ref blows his whistle, period.
And I HONESTLY think Mastroeni would have been sent off if De Rossi was still on the pitch, given the ref standards, FIFA rules, instructions and policies.

I can't really see your point about the "well-deserved draw", Jon. The disallowed goal was quite logical, if that's you have in mind.

Oh and by the way, just to be clear : there's no european solidarity during world cup. I hate italian team more than any team in the world, I hope their olympic diving team will be sent home after the first round. And I'm still hoping that we will be able to avenge some tough-to-swallow losses against Germany (remember Sevilla !) during this tournament. Same for England or Spain. I'd prefer a south american victory than an european victory. I'd prefer been blown out 0-4 against Brazil or Argentina than lose 0-1 against an archrival. And I guess that every european fan would say the same.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Ukraine up 2-0. Woo hoo!

 

[dogpoo32]

First, I know many europeans that would simply die if we won because they know (by living here) that these are not our top athletes. It would be like Russia winning the superbowl with whatever athletes they have left over after filling their top sports.

Second, if you didnt bust out the "People like you guys make me not want to rout for the US" you wouldnt have gotten the attitude I gave you.

Q could be a one man team!

 

[Zeno]

Oh and by the way, just to be clear : there's no european solidarity during world cup. I hate italian team more than any team in the world, I hope their olympic diving team will be sent home after the first round. And I'm still hoping that we will be able to avenge some tough-to-swallow losses against Germany (remember Sevilla !) during this tournament. Same for England or Spain. I'd prefer a south american victory than an european victory. I'd prefer been blown out 0-4 against Brazil or Argentina than lose 0-1 against an archrival. And I guess that every european fan would say the same.

Thats about how I feel about Mexico, I took that 3-0 loss to Czech much better than the 2-1 loss to Mexico in Azteca stadium. The one thing that made the 2002 WC so sweet was that the USA eliminated Mexico. The way the team played in the quarterfinals were great but the best part was seeing Marquez and Blanco's faces as the US celebrated on the field.

 

[Stout]

Nate and others still propping up this ridiculous ref by claiming this was simply his style and that he was only a strict enforcer of the rules...how in the heck do you describe the rest of the game? You know, where he strangely kept his whistle in his pocket and *gasp* actually let the players PLAY the game? Probably the most frustrating part of his horrendous reffing was his horrendous inconsistency. All of a sudden, once it's 10 on 9, the game is allowed to flow with few blown whistles and far, far fewer fouls called, plays that would have been fouls eariler in the game. Well?

 

[Stout]

Oh, and Nate...still waiting for a response on this ref's suspension for irregularities. Still waiting to hear you defend him.

 

[Nate]

Oh, and Nate...still waiting for a response on this ref's suspension for irregularities. Still waiting to hear you defend him.

Dont know about you but some years ago some old guy at school and later an even older and even funnier looking guy with a beard at university told me sth about some funny concepts and I think he said sth in the way of that it is really important to stick to that principles.

If I remember correctly it went roughly like that:

If someone alleges sb of sth, you then have to prove it. If you cant really prove it, then this person is not necessarily innocent, but you cant convict him on criminal charges and that guy doesnt have to go to a cell which he isnt allowed to leave on his own.

Then these guys told me even more: There is another way to get to a guy. If he has done sth wrong (intentionally or grossly negligent) then you can try to get money from him if he has caused you any losses. Sometimes you can get your money back from a guy even if he isnt guilty of criminal wrongdoing (because you cant really prove that much).

Then there is a third level they told me about. If someone endangers the integrity of a company or any kind of community, you dont have to prove anything. You can just decide for yourself if you want to continue with that guy. If you dont want to, you dont have to cope with him any further.

Going by what these old wise guys told me, I dont have anything to say to you, Stout. I may be wrong, because things can change quite quickly in times like this, I mean, with terrorists and so on. So please tell me if anything has changed. Would you be so kind? I really would appreciate that!

IF nothing has changed, however, I am waiting for some details of these alleged crimes/bribes/irregularities and what its all about you are trying to imply with that ref. I mean, I have never heard of anything regarding that ref in a way like these old guys told me about.

Stout, please enlighten me and help me to get over my "ridiculous" claims!

 

[arthurracoon]

sad to see tunisia go down like that

 

[BACH]

Random thought....

Is it just me, or isn't it pretty funny that of all the bands in the world, The Village People ends up being responsible for not only the most, but perhaps the two most played songs at sporting events.

 

[BigDavis75]

Stout, wont cut it out of my post, but will apologize for addressing you instead of BigDavis who provoked it by his know it all attitude. You were not the one responding that way, meaning that I made an obvious mistake and that probably I was the one who had a Guinness too much (ok,not really).

I honestly can't believe you call me the know at all. You are easily the most pompous jerk I have seen on these boards. You are so anti-American it is ridiculous. You have said the same two things in all of your last 20 posts. Citing how "a clear majority" of all publications support the refs decision. Why do you think they do this? They don't want any trouble from FIFA, I can't believe you, the soccer king, don't realize this. Insulting the calls of these professional refs is off-limits. Arena came out today and in an interview on ESPN, which has now become the homogenized home for sports, said the ref was wrong with the reds. Earlier in the tournament Franz Beckenbauer called out the refs for their use of the cards. A majority of fans who are used to watching soccer would say that is not a red. You can post a poll here if you'd like.

 

[Nate]

I honestly can't believe you call me the know at all. You are easily the most pompous jerk I have seen on these boards. You are so anti-American it is ridiculous. You have said the same two things in all of your last 20 posts. Citing how "a clear majority" of all publications support the refs decision. Why do you think they do this? They don't want any trouble from FIFA, I can't believe you, the soccer king, don't realize this. Insulting the calls of these professional refs is off-limits. Arena came out today and in an interview on ESPN, which has now become the homogenized home for sports, said the ref was wrong with the reds. Earlier in the tournament Franz Beckenbauer called out the refs for their use of the cards. A majority of fans who are used to watching soccer would say that is not a red. You can post a poll here if you'd like.

I already posted the results of a poll from surely more neutral fans than the ones one would find here.

Oh, and Arena said it was no red. Really. Than it must be true. He is shurely neutral and impartial.

So Beckenbauer said there are too many cards in the tournament. Even me thinks so. It only strengthens the point I and some others made that the referees are (for the most) very strict during the tournament. Thats what FIFA wants them to do and thats what FIFA publicly said would happen before the tournament.

So L was no exception, he just had to referee a game some of your players wanted to be a war (they said so before the game) in order to negate the strength of the Italiens. Thats what got you your reds. Some damn stupid challenges. And the ref isnt to fault for the red he had to hand out for that despicable elbow by De Rossi who is one of if not the most unfair high-profil professional player in the world.

And for me being Anti-American. You are blinded by your passionate approach. Read again and make notes what I said about the American team. Make a list and show it for all to see. Just prove it. I only showed respect for what your players accomplished. I just dont agree - like most of the people outside of your beautiful country - with your teams and its supporters assesment of the ref. That clearly makes me totally Anti-American. Just lame.

 

[Nate]

I honestly can't believe you call me the know at all. You are easily the most pompous jerk I have seen on these boards. You have said the same two things in all of your last 20 posts.

So what. You dont? I answer many people questioning me again and again.

Citing how "a clear majority" of all publications support the refs decision. Why do you think they do this? They don't want any trouble from FIFA, I can't believe you, the soccer king, don't realize this. Insulting the calls of these professional refs is off-limits. Arena came out today and in an interview on ESPN, which has now become the homogenized home for sports, said the ref was wrong with the reds.

That makes no sense at all. So on the one hand former refs like Maier who are paid by German Television and are not associated with Fifa anymore and mustnt fear any actions or sanctions by Fifa are so scared of them that they dont speak the truth (Maier has harshly criticized other refs decision). On the other hand Arenas who is at risk of facing sanctions in your opinion is showing courage by speaking the truth. ESPN doesnt seem to be a publisher or broadcaster in your opinion because they also dont fear sanctions like the rest of the worlds publishers since they are also speaking the truth and criticizing the ref.

 

[Djaughe]

Ease up folks...the insults are getting old.

Please?

 

[arthurracoon]

Ease up folks...the insults are getting old.

Please?

 

[Nate]

Im out. Lets agree to disagree.

 

[Zeno]

This whole argument thing reminds me of something I was told by a former Goalkeeper from Bolton (he was the lead instructor in a goalkeeper coaching class I took). Once during his playing days he saved a shot, the ball never crossed the line. The ref however called it a goal. He was furious and ran after the ref screaming that it wasn't a goal. The ref turned to him and said, "Son, look in the paper tomorrow and tell me whether or not that was a goal" In other words, scream and yell argue, fight...whatever, the calls aren't going to get reversed.

Whats done is done, the game is over...the cards were given, right or wrong.

As of right now the strongest teams to me look like Spain and Argentina. Brazil, Portugal and Germany look good too but something is missing in all those teams that leads me to believe they either haven't hit their strides or they aren't particularly strong sides. Spain and Argentina just look like complete teams right now and both have a good mix of youth and experience.

I was impressed with the Ukraine today, I picked them to be second in their group behind Spain and was worried after the Spain game. Hopefully they keep it going in their last game against Tunisia.

This is a great tournament so far.

 

[Renz]

France with another tie! They have been a big dissapointment so far. They were supposed to be one of the teams competing for the Cup, but right now they only have 2 points with ties against Switzerland and Korea. Zidane will be suspended for the France-Togo game. They might not even advance!

Personally, I'm not surprised at France's struggles. Their coach completely botched the team selection, alienating players, fans and media alike. I don't think the team has any respect for him at all.

IMO he also erred by not selecting Anelka and Giuly for the squad, especially Giuly. Those two omissions are curious considering the problems the French have had scoring goals in the WC.

 

[BigDavis75]

So what. You dont? I answer many people questioning me again and again.



That makes no sense at all. So on the one hand former refs like Maier who are paid by German Television and are not associated with Fifa anymore and mustnt fear any actions or sanctions by Fifa are so scared of them that they dont speak the truth (Maier has harshly criticized other refs decision). On the other hand Arenas who is at risk of facing sanctions in your opinion is showing courage by speaking the truth. ESPN doesnt seem to be a publisher or broadcaster in your opinion because they also dont fear sanctions like the rest of the worlds publishers since they are also speaking the truth and criticizing the ref.

People have to watch out for FIFA and not criticize the refs, same with the NBA. You can't deny that. I wouldn't be surprised if Keller was fined for his comments after the game in fact.

My ESPN comment was that ESPN is a network that rarely crosses the line of late and their commentators and post game crews cited the ref negatively for his calls.

Also, I'm glad that you can spell our coach's name right.

 

[BigDavis75]

I already posted the results of a poll from surely more neutral fans than the ones one would find here.

Those fans aren't neutral, there are a lot of fans that hate America. They hate us due to political reasons and not soccer reasons, it is easily within the realm of possibilities that this affects their view of us.

Oh, and Arena said it was no red. Really. Than it must be true. He is shurely neutral and impartial.

When did he say this? He said the Pope play shouldn't have been a red (a second yellow) under any circumstances. Arena said the Mastroeni play probably wasn't a red but it was a dangerous challange, or something to that effect. Arena was very angry after both cards and he would have been irate if he was interviewed then. He toned it down a great amount for TV, I assure you of that.

So Beckenbauer said there are too many cards in the tournament. Even me thinks so. It only strengthens the point I and some others made that the referees are (for the most) very strict during the tournament. Thats what FIFA wants them to do and thats what FIFA publicly said would happen before the tournament.

That doesn't make it right. These cards are really dragging down the game and in a normal match, you'll probably agree, that play wouldn't have been a red.

So L was no exception, he just had to referee a game some of your players wanted to be a war (they said so before the game) in order to negate the strength of the Italiens. Thats what got you your reds. Some damn stupid challenges.

Maybe I missed this "war" they were making it into. Can you please link it for me?

The reason I'm really pissed is that despite the ref, we easily could have taken that match and could have soundly beat a European soccer power. It would have been the zarrival of American soccer in Europe.

 

[Compa]

My ESPN comment was that ESPN is a network that rarely crosses the line of late and their commentators and post game crews cited the ref negatively for his calls.

I don't like that almost all the ESPN experts are recently retired US players. Wynalda, Lalas, and Balboa have played with current players, so it's difficult for me to see their opinions as objective. I think Fox Soccer Channel's coverage, which includes experts from various countries including the US, has more impartial analysis.

 

[S_Nash]

I know it's a bit late, but spare a thought for Australia.

The freekick count was 25-9 in favour of Brazil. The referees were intimidated by Brazil and their team of stars.

If Kaka goes flying with his arms flailing, it MUST be a freekick.

But if Kewell goes down, he's milking it.

Plus, Brazil's 2nd goal should've been called offside. Fred was the closest man to the goal when Robinho's shot cannoned into the post and back to Fred.

Still though, I'm very proud of our boys. We took it to them. It's not often you see Brazil penned back, playing on the counter attack, but that's what happened.

I know we'll beat Croatia on Friday, and the Aussies will advance to the knockout stages.

And for the record....All 3 red cards in the Italy/USA game were given correctly. That Italian bloke should be given 2-3 games suspension

 

[Nate]

I know it's a bit late, but spare a thought for Australia.

The freekick count was 25-9 in favour of Brazil. The referees were intimidated by Brazil and their team of stars.

If Kaka goes flying with his arms flailing, it MUST be a freekick.

But if Kewell goes down, he's milking it.

Plus, Brazil's 2nd goal should've been called offside. Fred was the closest man to the goal when Robinho's shot cannoned into the post and back to Fred.

Still though, I'm very proud of our boys. We took it to them. It's not often you see Brazil penned back, playing on the counter attack, but that's what happened.

I know we'll beat Croatia on Friday, and the Aussies will advance to the knockout stages.

And for the record....All 3 red cards in the Italy/USA game were given correctly. That Italian bloke should be given 2-3 games suspension

As with the US, I really liked the fighting spirit of the Australien team. They won their first game in a WC against Japan in Kaiserslautern, and you guys shurly know how to party, sing and make friends. Even though Brazil could play its round of the last 16 match in my town, instead, most of the locals right know are hoping that Australia will qualify as second of the group. That would mean the Socceroos would indeed return to Kaiserslautern and bring their army of the green and gold along.

Merk had a poor performance, in my opinion. I say this as he was my former dentist (he is a former dentist, who till two years ago had a dentist office in town) living about 2 miles from my parents home, so perhaps I still hold a grudge against him. He made no big mistakes in an relatively easy to ref game, but I think that the foul disadvantage was a bit too large (even so the Aussis were the aggressors and therefore committed more fouls).

 

[Nate]

That doesn't make it right. These cards are really dragging down the game and in a normal match, you'll probably agree, that play wouldn't have been a red.

I dont want to further argue about that.

Just one thing: As I said for I dont know how many times that play is a red card by FIFA definition and would be a red in German Bundesliga at least 8 out of 10 times, and in any European Club Competition, too. FA or MLS standards may be different.

And while I dont agree with everything the ref did, he was absolutely right in handing out that red card for an absolutely reckless and dangerous challenge which was totally unnecessary(its just my opinion, its neither ridiculous nor making me Anti-American).