2011 NBA FINALS: Dallas Mavericks Vs Miami Heat

[Cheesebeef]

Actually, I said I didn't watch much of it. Too busy. What I did watch, I didn't see much that really stood out for LBJ (not that he didn't have numbers, sure he did, he's a freakish talent).

I really don't know why you're arguing this... he had numbers AND insane clutch play in the Boston/chicago series... but man, did he choke when it mattered most. that's all you really need to say.

LeBron does two things that impress me - he's great driving to the rack and he's perhaps one of the best at weak side and trailing blocks that I've ever seen. But other than that, his game bores the living crap out of me. He puts up great numbers, but I'd rather watch guys like magic, jordan, kobe, nash, etc, do their thing. He just bores me. He's like Shaq to me...incredible talent, half-asses it more often than not. But Shaq didn't shy from the alpha role, he relished it.

I have no issue with this. in fact, a ways back, Shaq was who i compared him to and Shaq will probably be who his career is closest to. People forget that before Jax got a hold of Shaq, he was Mr. Dissappointment, Mr. Sweep, his teams often getting to only a certain point and then he and them were demolished. Jackson got the most out of him and that's what Bron needs. He needs a GREAT coach. think about it... NO ONE has ever challenged that guy to get better in his entire and it shows in his game.

So maybe he was the bees knees and I missed it. Doesn't change the fact that he sucked when the pressure was on, and I did see that. And now he's acting like a douche in his post game pressers, and I'm not shocked at that either. He's a guy who feels entitled but doesn't pour his heart and soul into it, at least it doesn't appear that way. You may hate Kobe, but the dude works his ass off, buries himself in the game, and plays through injuries because he wants to win. LeBron expects to win. He's more talented than Kobe. Kobe does more with less. I respect that immensely.

all this is true, but let's think about where Kobe was at 26... he had just busted up the Lakers and quit in a Game 7, then ripped teammates after getting his **** pushed in for a second straight year... then he got to the Finals and the Celtics made him look like crap also and then basically quit in Game 6 standing by watching the Lakers lose by 40 points... and that was WITH Phil Jackson. so every young player has their cross to bear and LeBron DEFINITELY has his and it's a freaking HUGE one.

He and Wade might win a title on sheer talent alone, but he'll probably never be what he could be until he gets a coach who actually demands greatness from him. all the greats had that... and LeBron looks like he DESPERATELY needs it.

i wonder if Riley's too old to make that happen... he'll probably give Spoelstra 20 games next year just like he gave van gundy, then he'll can his ass and try to ride in for the rescue... i just don't know if he's still got enough left in to do it for the full season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm convinced Nash would have won a championship if Cuban had stuck with him. Maybe even in '06.

huh? nash couldn't even get the Suns to a Finals, even though they were always just as good or better than the Mavs. You can't win a title when you're PG is just an atrocious defender.

and considering that Nash always got abused by a young Tony Parker and Bowen, there's no way that Mavs team gets passed SA in 2006.

 

[Mulli]

Donald must have missed that AWESOME triple double El Blip threw down.

Hahaha

 

[TJ]

I gotta tell you... if I'm Miami, I think SERIOUSLY about making a play for Dwight Howard and offer up LeBron in the process. He and Wade are amazing players, but a) I don't know how great of a fit they are b) that Heat team is SERIOUSLY weak in the middle. They have no inside out game and LeBron just can't handle the pressure. Throw a twin towers of Bosh-Howard downlow with Wade controlling the exterior and that team can win titles...

and it would just be hilarious to see LeBron banished to Orlando.

It's easy to bash on LeBron right now, but that's a silly deal and no GM in their right mind would even consider it, especially a guy like Pat Riley. Instead, the team needs to add a couple of extra pieces for depth and not completely turn over the roster like they did last offseason. All while building better team chemistry and perhaps Riley showing Spoelstra how to make adjustments.

Dwight Howard could go down as a top 15 center of all time, but LeBron could go down as one of the top players to ever lace them up. You don't want to be the person responsible for executing such a lousy deal, even if you think it improves the dynamics. You build around players like LeBron.

LeBron will figure it out eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when.

 

[Mainstreet]

I picked the Mavericks to win the Championship before the series began and I was prepared to eat crow if they lost. So I am planning to have some finer dining now that the Mavericks won their first Championship.

Congratulations Lorenzotexan.

 

[Folster]

Great interview from Mark Cuban:

 

[Covert Rain]

Dwight Howard could go down as a top 15 center of all time, but LeBron could go down as one of the top players to ever lace them up. You don't want to be the person responsible for executing such a lousy deal, even if you think it improves the dynamics. You build around players like LeBron.

LeBron will figure it out eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when.

Isn't that basically the same thing? If you are one of the to 15 centers of all time, you are considered one of the top players to lace them up?!?! Also, I think Howard cracks the top 10 before his career is done.

The question here really becomes what does Miami need more? A Superstar who can't deliver when it counts or one of the most dominant big man Superstar to play center who shores up one of Miamis biggest wholes in the middle?

Also, how do you build around a guy who doesn't show up when it counts (in the finals)???? Let's not also forget LeBron is now 2-8 in the finals in terms of wins and losses. I know it's not going to happen. That is a given. Just saying I would consider it.

 

[CardsFan88]

Lots of people with talent, never capitalize on it.

LeNero might be one of those. He could get injured, he could get old (yes some people get physcially old at 28, others at 32, etc, etc). He has had two shots at winning the title and lost already. He even held the name LeBronze for a while, although he now owns in addition to that, a gold medal from 08.

He has a long ways to go, and he is hard pressed to be called anything. But he has some advantages. He came in young, so he has the opportunity to play 3-4 more years than most of the greats. Which is a bit unfair, stats wise, but then again, I don't think he'll play until he's 40, which is pretty much what you need to do to get to the Jabbar's.

He has a shot, being on that team, but it'll be tough. This was his best shot. The Heat are locked into these 3, and if there is a hard cap, they might need 9 minimum players going forward. There is a chance that there will be no mle, and no 'soft' cap, which means miami would be screwed, along with all teams with 3 max-ish contracts.

Plus there is a shot that he'll never win one. At some point people have to realize he's had two shots already, and has had 8 seasons to get those two shots. I'm not saying it's probable, but people project far too easily outside of reality. (like budget deficits and revenues, washington and wall street)

They're all just really guess, and none of them will be 100 percent accurate....and if they aren't.....

 

[chickenhead]

Not 7...not 6...not 5...not 4...not 3... not 2...

 

[TJ]

Isn't that basically the same thing? If you are one of the to 15 centers of all time, you are considered one of the top players to lace them up?!?! Also, I think Howard cracks the top 10 before his career is done.

The question here really becomes what does Miami need more? A Superstar who can't deliver when it counts or one of the most dominant big man Superstar to play center who shores up one of Miamis biggest wholes in the middle?

Also, how do you build around a guy who doesn't show up when it counts (in the finals)???? Let's not also forget LeBron is now 2-8 in the finals in terms of wins and losses. I know it's not going to happen. That is a given. Just saying I would consider it.

No it's not the same. Being top 15 or top
10 at your position is not equal to beings top in NBA history when you combine all positions.

Again, easy to make these remarks now since this is a "what have u done for me lately?" league. But at the end of day (or careers) perspective will change. Unlike many, I'll reserve judgment until then.

You simply cannot discount a talent like LeBron this soon. Kobe played just as bad if not worse in his first 10 finals games. Granted, the team won 'ships, he has built a legacy for himself. No one gave up on him. James is just under a heavy microscope because before the finals, he was heralded as the best player in the league.

 

[chickenhead]

The thing is, fans do really want to see the best reach their potential. They just resent being sold a bill of goods--especially when it's from the players themselves. I mean, in their opening press conference, beyond just the constant reference to "three kings" and all that, Wade said it was the best trio to ever play the game. They hadn't even played yet. Then LeBron said that they were going to mesh so well that by the time the actual games started, it was going to be easy.

Obviously most of the hype comes from the media, but seriously, you can control the words that come out of your own mouth.

 

[Lorenzo]

I picked the Mavericks to win the Championship before the series began and I was prepared to eat crow if they lost. So I am planning to have some finer dining now that the Mavericks won their first Championship.

Congratulations Lorenzotexan.

Thanks mainstreet....if I recall you were picking the mavs for a while as a sleeper. you got it right! I don't think many people outside of dallas(even there) were expecting them to do this. There was just something different about this team. It was easy to see going back to the beginning of the season. they overcame some tough obstacles, but honestly I think that is what prepared them for this moment.

I knew this team was special and different from any mavs team I've seen, but with the beer goggles removed... it wasn't until that 4th quarter of game 3 vs the LAL that I became a true believer. that to me was the moment where an old mavs team would have fell down on their face.

 

[Mulli]

No it's not the same. Being top 15 or top
10 at your position is not equal to beings top in NBA history when you combine all positions.

Again, easy to make these remarks now since this is a "what have u done for me lately?" league. But at the end of day (or careers) perspective will change. Unlike many, I'll reserve judgment until then.

You simply cannot discount a talent like LeBron this soon. Kobe played just as bad if not worse in his first 10 finals games. Granted, the team won 'ships, he has built a legacy for himself. No one gave up on him. James is just under a heavy microscope because before the finals, he was heralded as the best player in the league.

Are you referring to Kobe's games 4 and 6 in 2000?

http://www.kobebryantshoes.com/game_logs/2000_playoffs_game_log.htm

 

[Mulli]

http://www.kobebryantshoes.com/game_logs/2001_playoffs_game_log.htm

Here is a breakdown of Kobe's second Final series.

 

[Mulli]

Thanks mainstreet....if I recall you were picking the mavs for a while as a sleeper. you got it right! I don't think many people outside of dallas(even there) were expecting them to do this. There was just something different about this team. It was easy to see going back to the beginning of the season. they overcame some tough obstacles, but honestly I think that is what prepared them for this moment.

I knew this team was special and different from any mavs team I've seen, but with the beer goggles removed... it wasn't until that 4th quarter of game 3 vs the LAL that I became a true believer. that to me was the moment where an old mavs team would have fell down on their face.

Congrats Zo!

 

[Covert Rain]

No it's not the same. Being top 15 or top
10 at your position is not equal to beings top in NBA history when you combine all positions.

Again, easy to make these remarks now since this is a "what have u done for me lately?" league. But at the end of day (or careers) perspective will change. Unlike many, I'll reserve judgment until then.

You simply cannot discount a talent like LeBron this soon. Kobe played just as bad if not worse in his first 10 finals games. Granted, the team won 'ships, he has built a legacy for himself. No one gave up on him. James is just under a heavy microscope because before the finals, he was heralded as the best player in the league.

I think your splitting hairs unless you are being more specific...for instance top 10 of all time.

Also, nobody is discounting LeBron's talent. There have been many guys that were some of the best ever that their positions that never won a title. Nobody discounted their talent either. I don't think people are saying he won't be a great player or he absolutely can't win a title. He has too much of his career ahead of him. However, you do have to ask the question is LeBron really as good as hyped. As of today....I think we know that answer.

I can't think of very many examples were a a superstar failed to show up or do what was expected for 4 out of 6 (majority) of a finals series.

 

[Lorenzo]

Congrats Zo!

thanks mulli!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Donald must have missed that AWESOME triple double El Blip threw down.

Hahaha

hey look, Bulls fan comes out of hiding! What's worse LeBron going el Blip or getting CRUSHED by El Blip?

 

[Mulli]

hey look, Bulls fan comes out of hiding! What's worse LeBron going el Blip or getting CRUSHED by El Blip?

I have been on here the whole time. I didn't go anywhere. LeBron has the talent. He showed it in Chicago series. I am fine with this Bulls team going down in flames in the Finals.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's easy to bash on LeBron right now, but that's a silly deal and no GM in their right mind would even consider it, especially a guy like Pat Riley. Instead, the team needs to add a couple of extra pieces for depth and not completely turn over the roster like they did last offseason. All while building better team chemistry and perhaps Riley showing Spoelstra how to make adjustments.

Dwight Howard could go down as a top 15 center of all time, but LeBron could go down as one of the top players to ever lace them up.

uh, what's stopping Howard from doing the same? Dude's just as much of an athletic freak, is MILES better than everyone else at his position... a position of dominance in NBA history as far as champions are concerned... he's already led his ******* team to a Finals like LeBron did (where he actually won a game unlike Bron who was just embarassed in his first stint in the Finals before he got on the super-team... where he was embarassed again).

You say Howard has the ability to be a top-15 Center of all time... dude's already probably one of the top 15 Cs of all time... and he's only getting better. He's got the tools and talent to be on the greatest C ever. and in the NBA the Center position is KING, not some wing who calls himself the The King even though his nuts shrivel every time he's faced with the greatest pressure.

You don't want to be the person responsible for executing such a lousy deal, even if you think it improves the dynamics. You build around players like LeBron.

you build around players like Howard too... or have you not watched the NBA where the majority of it's champions center around a dominant C, which is exactly what Howard is. The idea that trading for the most dominant big man in the game when you already have a dynamic outside force would only be silly in the eyes of someone who doesn't understand how NBA championships are won.

LeBron will figure it out eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when.

maybe... but I don't know if you can "figure out" courage. you can figure out how to make your game better, but if you mentally can't handle the moment (which LeBron has NEVER shown he can, whether it was in the Olympics, last season with Boston or this season with the Mavs), i don't know if that just changes with time.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have been on here the whole time. I didn't go anywhere. LeBron has the talent. He showed it in Chicago series. I am fine with this Bulls team going down in flames in the Finals.

you haven't posted anything since LeBron started tearing your ass apart in game 2.

 

[Mulli]

uh, what's stopping Howard from doing the same? Dude's just as much of an athletic freak, is MILES better than everyone else at his position... a position of dominance in NBA history as far as champions are concerned... he's already led his ******* team to a Finals like LeBron did (where he actually won a game unlike Bron who was just embarassed in his first stint in the Finals before he got on the super-team... where he was embarassed again).

You say Howard has the ability to be a top-15 Center of all time... dude's already probably one of the top 15 Cs of all time... and he's only getting better. He's got the tools and talent to be on the greatest C ever. and in the NBA the Center position is KING, not some wing who calls himself the The King even though his nuts shrivel every time he's faced with the greatest pressure.



you build around players like Howard too... or have you not watched the NBA where the majority of it's champions center around a dominant C, which is exactly what Howard is. The idea that trading for the most dominant big man in the game when you already have a dynamic outside force would only be silly in the eyes of someone who doesn't understand how NBA championships are won.



maybe... but I don't know if you can "figure out" courage. you can figure out how to make your game better, but if you mentally can't handle the moment (which LeBron has NEVER shown he can, whether it was in the Olympics, last season with Boston or this season with the Mavs), i don't know if that just changes with time.

Howard got his team to the Finals. Also just lost the the Atlanta Sqhawks. Pffft.

 

[Mulli]

you haven't posted anything since LeBron started tearing your ass apart in game 2.

 

[Bert]

Great interview from Mark Cuban:

"You know what, who the **** cares about Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, we're the world champions."

I love it. ******* reporters, all the Mavs just won the Finals and all they wanna ask them is about Lechoke. This reminds me of the moron AKA Jim Gray asking Hakeem Olajuwon if he would have won 2 rings in a row if Jordan hadn't retired 5 mins after he'd won ring #2. It doesn't matter if you think that or wonder it, you dont piss in someones cheerios 5 mins after they just crushed their opponent to win the Championship in a pathetic effort to make yourself look good. Show a little class, you have months to ask and speculate on that question. Give the Mavs their moment, but they didn't.

Pathetic.

I also thought the reporters in the press conference for the heat were pathetic. Chucking gratuitous questions like "Did you choke in this series?"

How is anyone supposed to answer a question like that. It's like all these little fanboy reporters are so crushed that the Heat didn't win after they hyped them all year so it's IMPOSSIBLE that Dallas just won, the Heat must have choked that's the only possibility that allows them to still be right, regardless of the outcome of the series.

Most sports reporters are morons.

 

[Mulli]

you haven't posted anything since LeBron started tearing your ass apart in game 2.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167164

I know Lebron is your new favorite player, but you should stick to your own team.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167164

Haha.