2011 NBA FINALS: Dallas Mavericks Vs Miami Heat

[JCSunsfan]

I'm way too concerned with the Suns to spend too much time hating the Heat. But frankly, the Mavs have been close before, have had their window supposedly close, have worked their way back--and I'd much rather see that storyline win than "The Decision". I was sick of that story before it even happened.

Yep. The Mavs have been in the "blow it up" stage for the past few years, but they just keep adding pieces and staying relevent. Eventually lightning strikes.

 

[Bert]

If I check the standings again today and they are indeed up 3-1 then sure, momentum is completely ripped.

But again, there are three days between games and two of the best players in the game on the opposite end of the court. Miami showboated halfway through the 4th, which was a mistake. But had the Heat maintained focus, it's 2-0.

Two adjustments need to be made: a) play 48 minutes of basketball b) Spoelstra needs to make adjustments to the lineup if a meltdown begins to occur. Other than that, the team has been demonstrating how much more talented it is than Dallas and how daunting their defense can be. Anyone is crazy if they thought this would be a sweep and an easy series for Miami.

In the grand scheme of things, the series is tied 1-1. With a good road team like Miami, who have beaten the likes of Chicago and Boston multiple times away from American Airlines Arena, Dallas has to be on their heels. I can see multiple scenarios unfolding, and one of which is Miami takes 2 of 3 from Dallas, which prompts a closeout game in Miami game 6.

Don't think that the "momentum swing" has any bearing on the rest of the series, let alone Game 3. Too early in the series to think that. Dallas even proved a team can recover easily from an embarrassing meltdown earlier in the playoffs.

TJ, Iwas kidding around. Relax dude.
I removed my edit cuz I was out of line. Apologiez. Sometimes my inner smart ass gets the best of me.

 

[TJ]

TJ, I was kidding around. Relax dude.

I know, but any opportunity to enhance my argument must be taken advantage of

 

[TJ]

TJ, Iwas kidding around. Relax dude.
I removed my edit cuz I was out of line. Apologiez. Sometimes my inner smart ass gets the best of me.

LOL I saw. It's all good

 

[Arizona's Finest]

lol "Vitrol?" that's pretty extreme. I said I enjoyed watching them lose I never used the word "Hate" or said I was dying for them to lose.

You can say whatever you want, it's your opinion just as I have mine. I dont like the Heat, I think Lebron and Wade both have sucky attitudes and strut around too much. Even Kobe struts less than Lebron and Dwayne. Both of them act like every shot they make just won the championship and it rubs me the wrong way plain and simple.

That's not hate or vitrol. I'm a Suns fan and I respect the Mavs, I dont dislike them the way that I dislike the Spurs or the Lakers.

I dont get you getting all worked up and going on a long rant because I simply said I enjoyed the Heat losing and I even explained why when I said that Lebron and Wade were strutting around "like 15 year olds."

If the Heat win I wont care, life will go on, I'll still be a Suns fan.

I quoted you but I wasn't referrinf to you specifically, more as national fans as a whole. You might not "hate" the Heat but many, many, many people do amd only do since Lebron and Bosh signed there. I have a friend who is a diehard Lakers fan who was telling me how happy he was Dallas came back to beat the Heat? Wtf? You mean that same Dallas team that swept and embarassed the Lakers? Then I asked him if he cheered for the celtics over the Heat and he said "of course". wtf? Your bitterest rival over the past 30 years and your cheering for THEM against the Heat?

And that's certainly not isolated. In fact that's par for the course for most fans. The Mavs knocked us out of the WCF in 2006? What have the Heat done to your favorite team exactly?

So sure you can have an opinion. And its also okay that I tell you its irrational and makes no sense to me.

Bet you hate the Heat even more now, dontcha?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Besides, the word he's looking for is "vitriol" with an 'i'.

Excellent, Excellent point.

My question is which did you TIVO and which did you watch live last night: Game 2 on ABC or the Spelling Bee on ESPN?

 

[Bert]

I quoted you but I wasn't referrinf to you specifically, more as national fans as a whole. You might not "hate" the Heat but many, many, many people do amd only do since Lebron and Bosh signed there. I have a friend who is a diehard Lakers fan who was telling me how happy he was Dallas came back to beat the Heat? Wtf? You mean that same Dallas team that swept and embarassed the Lakers? Then I asked him if he cheered for the celtics over the Heat and he said "of course". wtf? Your bitterest rival over the past 30 years and your cheering for THEM against the Heat?

And that's certainly not isolated. In fact that's par for the course for most fans. The Mavs knocked us out of the WCF in 2006? What have the Heat done to your favorite team exactly?

So sure you can have an opinion. And its also okay that I tell you its irrational and makes no sense to me.

Bet you hate the Heat even more now, dontcha?

I have explained to you pretty rationally that I dont like the Heat players attitudes and that I have no hatred towards the mavs. So because they knocked us out in 2006 I'm obligated to hate them and root against them no matter what? Nope sorry, not buying it, they were the better team that year and I can accept that, because I can be objective.

They aren't even a divisional opponent. I like Dirk, I like Marion, I like Barea and I LOVE that they embarrassed the Lakers. I dont like Lebron/Wade/Bosh because their attitudes are too cocky for me. That's not the least bit irrational but whatever you gotta tell yourself. /kisses

 

[dodie53]

heat will win in 5.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't think the ill will towards the Heat is irrational at all. Most sports fans are loyal, and would die to suit up for their hometown team. LeBron put everyone through a ego-stroking dog-and-pony show to watch him bail on his hometown team for an easier shot at a title. Of course, it's not surprising, because while growing up in Ohio he cheered for the Bulls, the Cowboys, and the Yankees. The Indians went to the World Series twice in three years when he was a kid, but I guess that's not as good as winning four...

Anyway, I'm sure we'll all get used to the Heat winning titles sometime soon. It just doesn't seem very "sporting."

 

[Superbone]

I don't think the ill will towards the Heat is irrational at all. Most sports fans are loyal, and would die to suit up for their hometown team. LeBron put everyone through a ego-stroking dog-and-pony show to watch him bail on his hometown team for an easier shot at a title. Of course, it's not surprising, because while growing up in Ohio he cheered for the Bulls, the Cowboys, and the Yankees. The Indians went to the World Series twice in three years when he was a kid, but I guess that's not as good as winning four...

Anyway, I'm sure we'll all get used to the Heat winning titles sometime soon. It just doesn't seem very "sporting."

Heh. Great point. LeBron is a classic bandwaggoner. In who he cheers for AND who he plays for. Double whammy.

 

[CardsFan88]

Classic signs of a nero complex. LeNero James encompasses just about everything you should teach your child not to be (other than a criminal).

LeNero is just concerned with 'hype', and being that hype. It is his Nero complex that can't allow for his fantasy to not be true. I wouldn't mind him to fail so bad, he blows up the Miami team. Idiots like him deserve to fail just before crashing and burning.

I hope he never wins a title, and if so, justice will be served. Although perhaps if he wins one as a bit player in his ~18th year, I'd be okay with that.

Dude needs to learn a lesson, and I'm rooting for the Mavs to do just that. Sorry Bibby, but LeNero's prince of darkness persona overshadows you. Plus who wouldn't want hard working Dirk to get one? But then again there's Terry, Kidd, and Marion on the Mavs as well.

LeNero is a small, small person on the inside. Only interested in pleasure and fame. He could be on the most talented teams ever, and there is no way he'll ever match Jordan. A complete waste when you consider his talent. It's like Bull Durham. Billion dollar basketball body, but I wouldn't give 5 cents for his head. *and at least Nuke tried to change, while LeNero thinks all is well with being a scumbag, or so his hanger-ons tell him*

Just think LeNero, you might not have that awfully heavy championship ring weighing you and your talents down while at South Beach.

Go MAVS!

 

[TJ]

Classic signs of a nero complex. LeNero James encompasses just about everything you should teach your child not to be (other than a criminal).

LeNero is just concerned with 'hype', and being that hype. It is his Nero complex that can't allow for his fantasy to not be true. I wouldn't mind him to fail so bad, he blows up the Miami team. Idiots like him deserve to fail just before crashing and burning.

I hope he never wins a title, and if so, justice will be served. Although perhaps if he wins one as a bit player in his ~18th year, I'd be okay with that.

Dude needs to learn a lesson, and I'm rooting for the Mavs to do just that. Sorry Bibby, but LeNero's prince of darkness persona overshadows you. Plus who wouldn't want hard working Dirk to get one? But then again there's Terry, Kidd, and Marion on the Mavs as well.

LeNero is a small, small person on the inside. Only interested in pleasure and fame. He could be on the most talented teams ever, and there is no way he'll ever match Jordan. A complete waste when you consider his talent. It's like Bull Durham. Billion dollar basketball body, but I wouldn't give 5 cents for his head. *and at least Nuke tried to change, while LeNero thinks all is well with being a scumbag, or so his hanger-ons tell him*

Just think LeNero, you might not have that awfully heavy championship ring weighing you and your talents down while at South Beach.

Go MAVS!

Are you an LPC? PsyD? LCSW? MFT? AASP certified even?

If not, you shouldn't associate a colloquial term like "Nero Complex" and "Being a small, small person on the inside" to anyone. Plus, you consistently referencing him as "LeNero" and wishing failure upon him shows an agenda. Potential bias or envy?

And what I think you meant to say describes most every elite professional athlete or persons of elite status, such as business men or women: Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Donald Trump, Drew Rosenhaus, Mark Cuban, etc. They all have type A personalities, which generate jealousy, envy and hatred from others. But they still succeed despite your input. And if offered the opportunity, you'd gladly step in their shoes and enjoy the success they've earned and achieved....even if it's just for one day.

As for LeBron, what has he done to you to generate such a hate-filled response? Did he decimate your favorite team? Did he step on your toes? Did he rob you of any pride or dignity? No. He did what he thought was best for his career and his chance to win. He even took a pay cut to have a better opportunity to achieve his goal of getting that ring. Cleveland couldn't surround him with the talent needed to win anything. Why sit and waste away God-given talent when you know better opportunities are available. LeBron simply did what any of us would do in our professional lives. If we find a better opportunity elsewhere, we take it. Only difference is he is in the spotlight and you and I aren't, so his decisions will be unfairly scrutinized.

Besides. If you are a Suns fan, why the hell are you rooting for a rival?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

LOL this thread is ridiculous (although I always love TJ's posts on Psychology as he the man in that field) because .....none of you get Lebron. Like at all.

FYI I'm a Suns fan first, second, and third. But I do love watching the Heat play and Lebron is my favorite player.

Many of you are making all these false assumptions and basically just regurguitating what Sportscenter and the casual NBA fan thinks. Theres really not depth of thought in why you "hate" Lebron. Its the consensus and you just dive right in! Buncha Lemmings.

So while I could tear up each and every one of the reasons you "hate" Lebron, its not really worth my time. You are not going to change your mind and honestly I don't care that much.

I just know he is a fabulous player (in fact the best in the league) and while I maintain The Decision was a poorly constructed idea, him wanting to play somewhere he felt he would have other players to lean on and become one of the greatest winners the sport has seen doesn't jive with your contentions about him being all hype and a turncoat. And in fact if you actually listened to him speak and heard him apologize a few weeks back about how he left Cleveland and how he is constantly saying and doing the right thing since he has been in Miami....well you might just change your mind.

What I do know is that when he starts winning title after title, and the media gets back to suckling on his proverbial teet and pontificating about him on a daily basis.....your opinions will again change.

And Lebron wouldn't have changed all that much. It will just be that the consensus has changed and many of your opinions will sway right along with it.

 

[desertdawg]

I sure do hope the Queen and the Meat Coach blow another game between the two of them (they lost it for Miami in game 2), that did make the playoffs a little more bearable.

 

[Lorenzo]

mavs will win in 5.

that's what I said!

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was quite frustrated the way Marion left town. But I am happy that he is stepping up in this series. I hate the Mavs, but I hate LeBron and that bunch must worse.

Marion Playing James To Near StandstillJun 04, 2011 1:39 PM EDT


LeBron James is averaging 22 points, 8.5 rebounds and 4.5 assists in the first two games. These are strong numbers but off his pace from the regular season and the first three rounds of the playoffs, when he successfully outplayed Andre Iguodala, Paul Pierce and Luol Deng.

Shawn Marion averaged just 12.5 points a game in the regular season and in the first two rounds of the playoffs put up less than 10 points per game.

So far in the Finals, Marion is averaging 18 points, 9 rebounds and 3.5 assists. James is shooting 55 percent, and he's drawn praise for having the best run of jump shooting in his career. But Marion has been even better, shooting 57 percent. Much of that has come with James, by most accounts the defensive MVP of the postseason, as his primary defender.



Via Brian Windhorst/ESPN.com
LeBron James, Shawn Marion, Dallas Mavericks, Miami Heat, NBA
Read the Full StoryDiscussSend FeedbackBuy Tickets


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213978/Marion_Playing_James_To_Near_Standstill#ixzz1OMLMBmnt

 

[Superbone]

FYI I'm a Suns fan first, second, and third. But I do love watching the Heat play and Lebron is my favorite player.

Does not compute.

 

[JCSunsfan]

LOL this thread is ridiculous (although I always love TJ's posts on Psychology as he the man in that field) because .....none of you get Lebron. Like at all.

Many of you are making all these false assumptions and basically just regurguitating what Sportscenter and the casual NBA fan thinks. Theres really not depth of thought in why you "hate" Lebron. Its the consensus and you just dive right in! Buncha Lemmings.

.

This post is stupid. LeBron is hated because he is absolutely self-absorbed and unlikable. He quit during his last few games in Cleveland. He walked out on his city and home state, which would have been fine if he had just said, "I want to go somewhere where I can win." If he was up front about it and low key, it would have been fine. It's like a girl video taping her break up with you so she can show it to all her friends. Its got to be the stupidest PR move ever.

And believe me, the hate is not going to go away. This will follow LeBron the rest of his career. The only thing that will save him from it is some sort of major injury and comeback story that will gain people's sympathy. The hate is not a media creation, it is a LeBron creation.

"Lemmings" pffffft.

 

[Superbone]

LOL this thread is ridiculous because .....none of you get Lebron. Like at all.

Dude, your love affair with the guy is sickening. Only you "get" LeBron. OooooK...

What I do know is that when he starts winning title after title, and the media gets back to suckling on his proverbial teet and pontificating about him on a daily basis.....your opinions will again change.

No way in hell.

 

[Covert Rain]

FYI I'm a Suns fan first, second, and third. But I do love watching the Heat play and Lebron is my favorite player.

I get only part of this. I mean I loved watching Jordan play. I didn't like the Bulls though because I am a Suns fan. I respected the hell out of Jordan but that didn't mean I "loved" watching the Bulls beat everyone.

Many of you are making all these false assumptions and basically just regurguitating what Sportscenter and the casual NBA fan thinks. Theres really not depth of thought in why you "hate" Lebron. Its the consensus and you just dive right in! Buncha Lemmings.

I don't think you are being fair here either. I won't get into the entire turn coat thing but one thing that you can never deny is that LeBron went to play with arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire league. Why do you think the likes of Jordan and many other NBA greats raised an eyebrow. They all basically said the same thing. As a competitor you want to play the best not end up on the same team with them.

You can spin it anyway you want but that will always be a factor in measuring how great he was at the end of his career.

What I do know is that when he starts winning title after title, and the media gets back to suckling on his proverbial teet and pontificating about him on a daily basis.....your opinions will again change.

I don't think it will change anything. People will still see his legacy one step below players like Jordan because of it.

P.S. I don't hate LeBron but I have less respect for him because he went to the Heat.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This post is stupid. LeBron is hated because he is absolutely self-absorbed and unlikable. He quit during his last few games in Cleveland. He walked out on his city and home state, which would have been fine if he had just said, "I want to go somewhere where I can win." If he was up front about it and low key, it would have been fine. It's like a girl video taping her break up with you so she can show it to all her friends. Its got to be the stupidest PR move ever.

And believe me, the hate is not going to go away. This will follow LeBron the rest of his career. The only thing that will save him from it is some sort of major injury and comeback story that will gain people's sympathy. The hate is not a media creation, it is a LeBron creation.

"Lemmings" pffffft.

Explain to me why he is self absorbed? Find me one teammate who didn't love playing with him. He collectively lifted a bunch of scrubs in cleveland, passed them the ball like Magic Johnson, danced with them, build them up.

Being self absorbed is wanting to be "the man". To be the star. Not going to play with Wade and Bosh and give up the spot light to others.

Unlikebale? Why? Because he left Cleveland? He was the most popular athlete in sports prior to leaving Cleveland. He has been the same exact guy, if not more mature and better since going to Miami. The only reason people like you find him "unlikable" is because he left Cleveland. Because he left a crap situation.

And I LOVE how many people keep using the fact that he left home as a reason not to like him. First off quit projecting YOUR values onto someone else. If I lived in Cleveland like millions of others, I would be getting the hell out of there as soon as possible. Keep in mind Lebron wore NY Yankee hats all the time and even made comments about how Clevelanders were not looked upon favorably by people in Akron - his actual place of birth and where he grew up.

The quit crap is tired too. Boston was a better team. They are one of the best defensive teams in the last 10 years and Boobie Gibson and JJ Hickson weren't eaxctly focal points of the defensive gameplan. And I actually believe there is truth to the whole Delone West scandal and if that is true, I don't blame Lebron at all. So basically my bigger point is you have no clue if Lebron "quit" or what happened in Cleveland those last few weeks. You only know what a bunch of writers fed you at the time. Did you even watch the series? I did and it just seemed to me that he had a bad couple games and couldn't handle the pressure of carrying that crap team anymore.

Yes again the Decision was a bad idea and in retrospect Lebron himself said he would have changed it. Lebrons biggest fault is being TOO loyal and he let guys like Maverick Carter talk him into the TV idea. Convicing him that with the proceeds going to Boys and Girls club, it will be doing alot of good. Its been well documented how his posse is a bunch of money grabbing sycophants and this was a way for them to show value. Completely miscaluclated on all parts of course but lets be honest. That was the biggest FA decision in sports history. The demand was absolutely there. I am guessing you watched it like I did. So I get the thoughts around it. But overall a bad decision. I've covered that and agree with that.

So what do you have at the end of the day? The same player who was beloved by everybody, who made one bad PR decision, and all of a sudden he is the most hated man in sports? What a joke.

Heres a good article summing up what I am talking about, although even Whitlock is late to the show. Like I said Lebron never changed. Just the perception did.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/LeBron-James-Miami-Heat-hard-to-hate-him-now-in-NBA-Finals-060111

Heres another good article to read. Speaks to what I said is happening already. The tide is starting to change.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/8340/hating-lebron-james

And the "hate" was all irrational to begin with. So while you personally may hold some irrational "hate" for Lebron for the rest of your life, I guarantee the tide will change completely in terms of the public at large and all it will take is one or two championships. Book it.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I get only part of this. I mean I loved watching Jordan play. I didn't like the Bulls though because I am a Suns fan. I respected the hell out of Jordan but that didn't mean I "loved" watching the Bulls beat everyone.

The Suns are my favorite TEAM. Lebron is my favorite PLAYER. The two terms are mutually not exclusive. The Suns don't have any players I would really buy their jerseys for. I cheer for them because I love them and because of what it says on the front of the jersey. If they get Derrick Williams that will change but thats the way it is now.

Also I live 10 minutes from American Airlines Arena. I actually watched more Heat games then Suns games this year because its local, and as a sports fan, I have enjoyed watching this unprecedented sports experiment play out in front of me, and I have even gone to a couple games this year. So while I love the Suns, and when they play the Heat I am cheering for them, I guess you could say the Heat are my 2nd favorite team.

I don't think you are being fair here either. I won't get into the entire turn coat thing but one thing that you can never deny is that LeBron went to play with arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire league. Why do you think the likes of Jordan and many other NBA greats raised an eyebrow. They all basically said the same thing. As a competitor you want to play the best not end up on the same team with them.

You can spin it anyway you want but that will always be a factor in measuring how great he was at the end of his career.

I agree with your take that he will be viewed differently with regards ot his legacy because he went to play with other star players. But again people are projecting their values on another person. Who am I to say what he should do? If it was me I probaby would want to play with one of my best friends, especially if he offered me a chance to win and win big.

And lets look at it another way. Yeah sure it would be great if everyone could be MJ and win 6 championships as the fulcrum of their team. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson. Who did Lebron have?

So what if Lebron won 3 more MVPs and had some playoff success but could never get over the hump and wona chamionship because Cleveland never surrounded him with good enough players?

Or he could go to the Heat and win 5 of them with DWade. Which version of Lebron would be more favorably viewed in terms of his legacy?

If you say the ringless Lebron your lying to yourself. The reason Barkley is so bitter is because he never got over the hump himself and probably should have teamed up with a David Robinson, MJ, Partick Ewing or Hakeem (on his prime - not old Hakeem) to get his title or titles. I bet you if it guranteed him a championship looking back he would have done it in a second. There is no honor being the "best player to never wear a ring" thats an albatross that hangs around the chucksters neck. So his opinion is irrelevant IMO.

I don't think it will change anything. People will still see his legacy one step below players like Jordan because of it.

P.S. I don't hate LeBron but I have less respect for him because he went to the Heat.

Players like Jordan? LOL praytell who would that be?

Thats the problem here. Everyone holds every recent player to the ridiculous standards of Michael Jordan.

If Lebron and Wade win 3-4 championships and Lebron gets another MVP or 3, his place will be Top 5 MAYBE Top 3 end of story.

Which is alot higher then it would be if he allowed his career to shrivel up and die in Cleveland for the next 10 years. Maybe even had he got luck one year and he won 1 championship, it still would have been opportunity lost in terms of his legacy.

Lebron made the right "Decision". Time will show that. Of that I am confident.

 

[TJ]

How quickly do some of us forget about another superstar, who has engaged in far worse acts of immaturity and self-indulgence over the course of his career. Remember the 2007 offseason? The one when Kobe gave up on his team in the last playoff game of the Laker season against the Suns, which subsequently started this domino rally:


You may think that the "rational" vitriol towards LeBron will sting the rest of his career, but this airing of dirty laundry by Kobe lasted all of the offseason, and the Lakers were lucky to get Pau Gasol for a bag of dirty socks; otherwise, he would have forced himself out. And I am excluding the other Kobe antics, which have been conveniently overlooked over the years. Additionally, if you are a true Suns fan, this is the person you should be targeting your disdain towards. The guy who in the last game of last seasons WCF was caught gliding like an airplane right in front of Alvin Gentry at the end.

The bottom line is once LeBron starts winning rings, this whole front about him being the Antichrist of the NBA will blow over. If Kobe can withstand it with far more skeletons in his closet, LeBron will too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with your take that he will be viewed differently with regards ot his legacy because he went to play with other star players. But again people are projecting their values on another person. Who am I to say what he should do? If it was me I probaby would want to play with one of my best friends, especially if he offered me a chance to win and win big.

It has nothing to do with values. The very premise of greatness is to test that against other players that are considered the best at what you do.

That has nothing to do with values. That is what greatness is measured by. Values???

And lets look at it another way. Yeah sure it would be great if everyone could be MJ and win 6 championships as the fulcrum of their team. But MJ had Pippen and Phil Jackson. Who did Lebron have?

Well in this case he has Wade. If he goes on to rip off some titles with Wade he will never be able to shake that fact. By the way Pippen is not even close to being on the same level as Wade. This is as close as it gets to putting two MJ dominate level players on the same team. Not that I am comparing either directly to Jordan mind you. But they might as well be two of the most dominate players of their era and they are on the same team.

So what if Lebron won 3 more MVPs and had some playoff success but could never get over the hump and wona chamionship because Cleveland never surrounded him with good enough players?

Or he could go to the Heat and win 5 of them with DWade. Which version of Lebron would be more favorably viewed in terms of his legacy?

Your assuming his only option was to stay in Cleveland. That is ridiculous. He had other options where he could be the #1 guy. Other organization probably would have done everything humanly possible to surround him with enough talent. You are making it sound like Cleveland was his only option.

You are crazy if you think winning a title with one of those other options wouldn't be more valuable to his legacy. You are indicating Cleveland and Miami were his only options and that is the furthest thing from the truth.

If you say the ringless Lebron your lying to yourself. The reason Barkley is so bitter is because he never got over the hump himself and probably should have teamed up with a David Robinson, MJ, Partick Ewing or Hakeem (on his prime - not old Hakeem) to get his title or titles. I bet you if it guranteed him a championship looking back he would have done it in a second. There is no honor being the "best player to never wear a ring" thats an albatross that hangs around the chucksters neck. So his opinion is irrelevant IMO.

Ridiculous. One of the greatest players of all time will still be one of the greatest players of all time regardless of rings. Around the water cooler it might make a difference if one great player has rings and the other doesn't and they are so close in accomplishments you are debating who was better. The ringless guy will still be one of the best players to ever play the game.

Sure every player would love to have a ring but there is a certain measure of luck being on the right team, the right ownership and the right mix of players. Your "albatross" comment is unfounded. There are a number of great players without rings. It doesn't make them any less great or any less respected. I guarantee it impacts them more on a personal level then it does how they are viewed by fans. If what you were saying was true then you might as well say that no player can be great without a ring. You might as well say that a great player can't have a great legacy without a ring.

Maybe in your eyes....but hey....maybe that is "your values".

Players like Jordan? LOL praytell who would that be?

Thats the problem here. Everyone holds every recent player to the ridiculous standards of Michael Jordan.

What I meant by that is this generations equivalent of a dominate player. It wasn't meant to be a direct comparison and you completely missed the point.

If Lebron and Wade win 3-4 championships and Lebron gets another MVP or 3, his place will be Top 5 MAYBE Top 3 end of story.

Maybe for you. There will be people that will always question his legacy if he rips of wins with Wade. If you are saying LeBron winning titles with Wade versus for instance Kobe winning a title with Gasol is on the same level.....who is kidding who?

Lebron made the right "Decision". Time will show that. Of that I am confident.

He made the right decision if his goal is to win a title. If he wants to be revered as the best player to play the game (which is a goal of his) he made a serious misstep. At the end of the day if LeBron finished with the same number of records and rings as player X.....yet player X didn't have the luxury of playing with a player of Wade's caliber...... there would be no debate who was better and you know it.

 

[Magnus]

Maybe for you. There will be people that will always question his legacy if he rips of wins with Wade. If you are saying LeBron winning titles with Wade versus for instance Kobe winning a title with Gasol is on the same level.....who is kidding who?

Well heck... One could ask if Lebron would have won those titles if he was in the lakers instead of Kobe, alongside Gasol. There is always speculation, but why bother speculating in the first place?

James has the priviledge to play with another superstar player, Wade. And bottom line is it doesn't really matter who helped him win a championship, if he does so. Infact, we are looking at this wrong. It is not about others helping him win, it's about him helping the rest of the guys. There is no rule that you have to win a championship all by yourself, surrounded with garbage players. Basketball is a team sport. Somehow people forget that, and focus on individual players trying to overcome ridiculous odds, because apparently that is the only way those players can prove their worth. Which opens an arsenal of ''what if'' questions which are pointless to begin with.


Bottom line is, Lebron is an amazing basketball player, wether you like it or not. I doubt he will top MJ, because MJ had a certain charisma about him, a drive to win that is unrivaled. But on the end of the day, Lebron will too be remembered as one of the greatest to ever play the sport.