2011 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Magnus]

If your PG is your first go to guy, you won't win a championship, because PG's should focus on getting others involved more, and just 'gelling' the team together.

That's what history has taught us. And from these teams that are left, only the Bulls could prove otherwise.

 

[Lorenzo]

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they called a jump ball on this play. in game 1 it would have been a flagrant and a suspension for violating the man code.

 

[Lorenzo]

This is Westbrook's problem. He does not get everyone else involved and that's important when you have the best scorer in the league on your team.

Think all of Phil Jackson's championship teams. He never had a dynamic pointguard on any team (BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper, Derek Fischer). They were smartand they knew they were the 4th or 5th scoring option on the team and that MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe were the players to go to during crunch time.

I think Westbrook is one of the most selfish players in the league, who I think is playing more for a contract rather than a championship. Why do you think the Suns win when Nash scores 15 and dishes 13 rather than him scoring 27 and dishes 7? Everyone gets involved.

I agree with you, but at the same time the thunder need him to score to win games. much like the bulls need rose to score.

we all know he needs to get his mates involved, but he is asked to be the second leading scorer on the team. so that puts too much pressure on him and leaves (not just us) but russell second guessing every move. I feel that's why everything looks so strange. he tries to get someone involved, turns it over, and gets benched.

again without his free throws in game 3...they lose by 20. his ability to get into the paint at will may have not yielded shots, but it got him to the line.

I agree with all of you about westbrook, but I can't say total blame goes on him. this is a team game and the whole OKC team sometimes plays too much one on one basketball.

westbrook is young and he is a score first PG. the great ones know how to do both. nash is a perfect example. he knows when to score and when to pass. j-kidd is a guy that at 38 has limitations, but he knows the ins and outs of his game and all of his teammates at both ends. his overall game and presence makes his team a better club even when he doesn't score.

 

[Lorenzo]

you have already made it clear that the mavs will not prove themselves to be menally tough. if they dominate they are not mentally tough because they don't face adversity. yet when someone points out to you a scenario of when they have face an adverse situation you just discount it. and your points are very questionable at best. so you mean to tell me it would have been more impressive if the mavericks have defeated a number 8th seed in the first round? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. But I don't think it really matters who they play in the first round. especially this year. all of these teams are tough when you consider memphis was in a game 7 in the second round. I've never heard someone say that getting to play a tougher team in the first round is a good thing and it actually makes a team more mentally frail in the long run. if anything I think playing portland helped the mavericks. it can be argued that portland was a tougher matchup than OKC. I don't care what type of Political correct statement carlisle is trying to make. aside from that I must be misunderstanding what you are saying about the mavs playing portland as opposed to the 8th seed.


you are looking at the past only. you won't even watch the game objectively with your eyes. If the mavs go on to win a title without facing adversity (like you have said) then you might say that they are mentally weak. but I'm going to go on record as to saying they are the first team ever to win a title without facing adversity and that just means that chuck norris is playing for them at PF. they are just that good I guess.

caron bulter is clearly a major loss. they were 11-1 on the road when he went down and 24-5 overall. those are the only numbers I need to look at rather than writing an essay of why the mavs don't need him. that was a huge loss and I agree with cheesebeef's point that the mavs overcame major adversity by losing one of their key starters.

the fact that the mavs made it this far IMO proves their mental toughness. and if they win a title it will be very impressive considering that there were so many good teams this year. certainly the road was much tougher than the last time the mavs made the finals. I mean where are josh howard, desagan diop, devin harris, erik dampier now that they don't play with dirk? that's all I need to say.

 

[Cheesebeef]

you have already made it clear that the mavs will not prove themselves to be menally tough. if they dominate they are not mentally tough because they don't face adversity. yet when someone points out to you a scenario of when they have face an adverse situation you just discount it. and your points are very questionable at best. so you mean to tell me it would have been more impressive if the mavericks have defeated a number 8th seed in the first round? I mean you are looking at the past only. you won't even watch the game objectively with your eyes. If the mavs go on to win a title without facing adversity (like you have said) then you might say that they are mentally weak. but I'm going to go on record as to saying they are the first team ever to win a title without facing adversity and that just means that chuck norris is playing for them at PF. they are just that good I guess.

caron bulter is clearly a major loss. they were 11-1 on the road when he went down and 24-5 overall. those are the only numbers I need to look at rather than writing an essay of why the mavs don't need him. that was a huge loss and I agree with cheesebeef's point that the mavs overcame major adversity by losing one of their key starters.

the fact that the mavs made it this far IMO proves their mental toughness. and if they win a title it will be very impressive considering that there were so many good teams this year. certainly the road was much tougher than the last time the mavs made the finals. I mean where are josh howard, desagan diop, devin harris, erik dampier now that they don't play with dirk? that's all I need to say.

quite simply, facing a team that is THE TWO TIME DEFENDING CHAMP/HEAVILY FAVORED to beat you and coming out in game 1, getting down 16 down immediately, yet still coming back to win game 1... then not being satisified with that and coming back and kicking ass in Game 2... then, with people still doubting you, being down 7 with 5 minutes left at home and winning that game and then coming out and ABSOLUTELY STEPPING ON THAT TEAM'S throat in game 4 says a TON about the Mavs and their killer instinct. mentally soft teams don't have killer instincts. they let teams hang around, or fail to put them out of their misery. This team has faced a good team in the second round and when their past crept up on them, they responded with 2 monster wins, then destroyed a team that had much more talent and was favored to beat them and then, after losing homecourt, they went into the toughest arena in the league and took HCA right back.

sorry man... mentally weak teams would have crumbled after Game 4 of the Portland series... or would have let the Lakers extend that series longer... or let the Thunder steam roll them in Game 3. they don't come out after every challenge and instantly have great performances.

 

[Lorenzo]

quite simply, facing a team that is THE TWO TIME DEFENDING CHAMP/HEAVILY FAVORED to beat you and coming out in game 1, getting down 16 down immediately, yet still coming back to win game 1... then not being satisified with that and coming back and kicking ass in Game 2... then, with people still doubting you, being down 7 with 5 minutes left at home and winning that game and then coming out and ABSOLUTELY STEPPING ON THAT TEAM'S throat in game 4 says a TON about the Mavs and their killer instinct. mentally soft teams don't have killer instincts. they let teams hang around, or fail to put them out of their misery. This team has faced a good team in the second round and when their past crept up on them, they responded with 2 monster wins, then destroyed a team that had much more talent and was favored to beat them and then, after losing homecourt, they went into the toughest arena in the league and took HCA right back.

sorry man... mentally weak teams would have crumbled after Game 4 of the Portland series... or would have let the Lakers extend that series longer... or let the Thunder steam roll them in Game 3. they don't come out after every challenge and instantly have great performances.

I agree. and that's why I had faith in this mavericks team. they have been a physical hard nosed team from day one this season. I liked what I saw from them even in games that they lost when people questioned them. I will be the first to admit that when they are playing I get nervous. but that's the fan in me. any fan gets nervous when they watch their team play. when I look objectively this mavs is the best team I've ever watched. and it is because of their mental toughness. look at chandler shaking off that dumb technical on harden. the only thing harden did was sniff his arm pitts. or all of those flagrant fouls in the LA series when they didn't lose control and get suspended. or dirk getting dry humped by collison for a game and missed open shots for 3 quarters, but still having the mental fortitude to close out the thunder in the 4th quarter. to me that is the only way to gauge mental toughness. let the results speak for themselves rather than over analyzing. how many teams have swept the lakers over the last few years since they got gasol. none. not the spurs, not the suns, or any team in the east. how many teams have lost control after getting a flagrant foul against him like the bynum or artest play? to me those are signs of teams that lack mental toughness in adverse situations.

the funny thing is we talked about the lakers doing this. they would always dig themselves a hole, but get out of it. and we all said it would eventually catch up and it did. to me that wasn't a team being a dominant team. the kobe/shaq lakers never dug themselves holes. they flat out pounded teams. even swept their way to the finals one year right? that is the true sign of a mentally tough team.

 

[Covert Rain]

you have already made it clear that the mavs will not prove themselves to be menally tough.

I have? Because I clearly said I would like to see the Mavs come through in a series where they are not ahead or maybe even a game 7 when the pressure is high. Beating teams in early games in the series doesn't do it for me. Beating teams that you are clearly more talented then doesn't do it for me either. None of the series so far even come close to comparing the pressure the Mavs were under as in the Golden State series for example.

so you mean to tell me it would have been more impressive if the mavericks have defeated a number 8th seed in the first round? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

No. Not saying that at all. I am saying that I will believe the Mavs are mentally tough when I see this team with their backs to the wall or in a high pressure game 7 and they stomp the other team.

caron bulter is clearly a major loss. they were 11-1 on the road when he went down and 24-5 overall. those are the only numbers I need to look at

Me too. It proves my point. They only lost 4 games over the next series of games without him. They don't miss him.

Like I said...I am not rooting against the Mavs. I want to see a Heat vs. Mavs final.

 

[Lorenzo]

I have? Because I clearly said I would like to see the Mavs come through in a series where they are not ahead or maybe even a game 7 when the pressure is high. Beating teams in early games in the series doesn't do it for me. Beating teams that you are clearly more talented then doesn't do it for me either. None of the series so far even come close to comparing the pressure the Mavs were under as in the Golden State series for example.



No. Not saying that at all. I am saying that I will believe the Mavs are mentally tough when I see this team with their backs to the wall or in a high pressure game 7 and they stomp the other team.
and I too want to see a mavs heat final.


Me too. If proves my point. They only lost 4 games over the next series of games without him.

Like I said...I am not rooting against the Mavs. I want to see a Heat vs. Mavs final.

well if the mavs do play a game 7 i like thier chances. not just because this team is better, but because of dirk being as good of a clutch player as you will find. check dirk's game 7 stats and records. they would surprise you.

 

[Covert Rain]

well if the mavs do play a game 7 i like thier chances. not just because this team is better, but because of dirk being as good of a clutch player as you will find. check dirk's game 7 stats and records. they would surprise you.

Why would they surprise me? Dirk has been shooting fantastic. He for the most part has been unguardable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

how many teams have lost control after getting a flagrant foul against him like the bynum or artest play? to me those are signs of teams that lack mental toughness in adverse situations.

this is a GREAT point. The mentally soft team EXPLODES in that moment... just like we did. Dallas knew exactly what Artest was trying to do and didn't get goaded into something that could possibly cripple them in the next game. that's another good sign of mental toughness. you do you're talking on the court and realize the best punishment is kicking their ass on the court.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Me too. It proves my point. They only lost 4 games over the next series of games without him. They don't miss him.

i think you completely misread what lorenzo was saying. he said they were 11-1 on the road and 24-5 before he got injured. That means they were 33-20 total and 17-12 after he got injured. a difference of playing .830 basketball versus .622 basketball. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. in light of clearing up that misunderstanding, do you still believe that team didn't miss butler and didn't overcome adversity in losing him considering they were a .830 team with him and a .622 after?

 

[desertdawg]

This is the Durant I was talking about.

 

[Lorenzo]

This is the Durant I was talking about.

yeah he's playing well. if dallas can keep this one close they will be ok. they have to stop turning the ball over though. especially terry and marion.

 

[Lorenzo]

great start by OKC, they are scoring a lot of layups in transition. to me that's the difference in the first half.

 

[Proteus]

It's gonna be very hard for the Mavs to win this game if the Thunder keep on shooting 57%. Mavs down 88-79 with 10:23 left in the 4th quarter.

 

[desertdawg]

Durant's wrist looked like it got jacked up on that flagrant, but he sunk both freethrows so he might be cool.

 

[Lorenzo]

dallas just got outplayed today. ibaka worked chandler, haywood, and dirk on the boards. way too many easy points for OKC. this series looks like it will go 7.

 

[desertdawg]

dallas just got outplayed today. ibaka worked chandler, haywood, and dirk on the boards. way too many easy points for OKC. this series looks like it will go 7.

This is a pretty darn good series, both teams are fun to watch and both teams have "issues."

 

[Proteus]

Overtime. They really should have some put back on the clock.

 

[Lorenzo]

This is a pretty darn good series, both teams are fun to watch and both teams have "issues."

yeah the issue is called the WCF. the two best teams in the west.

this is ridiculous.

 

[desertdawg]

yeah the issue is called the WCF. the two best teams in the west.

this is ridiculous.

Sounds like you got issues too.

 

[Lorenzo]

Sounds like you got issues too.

sure do. but you have to give dirk credit. if this wasn't overcoming adversity i don't know what is. they played a terrible game in many regards today yet their best player is just that much better than anyone else on the court. and that was the difference when the game was on the line. my question is how is dirk 2nd team all NBA lol. oh well.

 

[Proteus]

Mavs win 112-105.

 

[Lorenzo]

so my question is was this dallas overcoming adversity or OKC choking it away? I'm interested to hear what people think.

I think it was clearly both. OKC looks very tight when the game is on the line. even in game 2 they looked really tight closing that one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

A mentally weak team down 15 with 4 minutes left in Game (after getting back HCA in Game 3) curls up into a ball and is satisfied with getting the split.

that was an AMAZING comeback.

And I didn't want to say it, but Magic just did and unbelievably, i agree with him... I can't remember someone playing this CONSISTENTLY AMAZING on offense since MJ. Dirk is truly having a post-season for the ages.