2011 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Lorenzo]

Michael Wilbon said last night that Kevin Durant touched the ball on only 10 of 27 possessions in the fourth quarter. Most plays were Westbrook cutting into the lane for a layup.

Last I checked, the #1 scoring threat on that team is Durant. In crunch time, you create plays to get the ball to your best shooter/scorer. Not let your ball hogging point guard play isolation.

OKC should take a note from Game 2 as to how effective they were when Westbrook was on the bench in the 4th. A point guard should not have 30 and 4.

that is the dilemma faced by the thunder. westrbrook is the only reason that game got close because of all his trips to the free throw line. because they couldn't make shots all game. then when the game got close no one could make shots and he kept driving to the cup out of control. and dallas' end(or better yet the choke end of the court where they are soft and can't face adversity) they have guys like dirk who welcome that moment and ice the game in spite of the struggles at that end. there aren't very many in the league like him who can step up under those conditions.

now OKC needs to win game 4 or else this one is over. I don't think benching westbrook helps them. it might have worked in game 2, but they need to score to win. benching your 2nd best scorer in the 4th quarter helps dallas more times than it will hurt them.

 

[Lorenzo]

Well a team shows it's mental toughness when faced with adversity and overcoming it. I think Dallas would prefer not to face any adversity in these playoffs and instead get to the promised land based on the amount of talent this team has. They have plain been better than most teams in the NBA this year on talent alone. That doesn't speak to a teams mental toughness IMO.

teams don't win in the playoffs without facing adversity. no one wins every game for 48 mins straight. if anything it is much more difficult to beat and lead a team for 48 mins like dallas did last night. they went cold offensively in the 2nd half...yet when the game was on the line which team faced adversity. it was dallas. dallas' two best offensive players went 10 for 33 in that game...yet they still won on the road. I'd say that is facing adversity. how many teams have their stars score well under their average yet win games on the road this far into the playoffs? well not many because most of the other NBA teams are not playing anymore.

dallas has had several games in the playoffs in which they faced adversity and came from behind. twice against the lakers. they also had the 23 point meltdown against portland and went on 7 game winning streak after that. I would say that's facing and overcoming adversity. you would rather do it that way as compared to falling behind in a series. falling behind in a series can be overcome too as well, but it is not the ideal way to win in the playoffs if you want to win a championship. dirk nowitzki once went down 0-2 to the rockets at home. then won the series in 7....one of three teams of all team to accomplish this feat. what does it mean? nothing if you don't win a title. in fact they lost to a better suns team in the next round in a series where they were never in a hole like that. I don't think that helped the mavs reputation. winning a title is the only thing that will help the mavs reputation. it really doesn't matter how they do it. doubters are always going to doubt. if they come from behind people will say the other team choked. if they sweep a team people will say the team didn't play well.

 

[Griffin]

that is the dilemma faced by the thunder. westrbrook is the only reason that game got close because of all his trips to the free throw line. because they couldn't make shots all game. then when the game got close no one could make shots and he kept driving to the cup out of control. and dallas' end(or better yet the choke end of the court where they are soft and can't face adversity) they have guys like dirk who welcome that moment and ice the game in spite of the struggles at that end. there aren't very many in the league like him who can step up under those conditions.

now OKC needs to win game 4 or else this one is over. I don't think benching westbrook helps them. it might have worked in game 2, but they need to score to win. benching your 2nd best scorer in the 4th quarter helps dallas more times than it will hurt them.

They don't need to bench him, they just need him to realize when to try to score and when to pass, especially late in games. It's really that simple. Look to create a high-percentage shot for a teammate, if not, then create something for yourself. Especially when you have a player like Durant on your team. Westbrook's basketball IQ doesn't seem very high right now. He's trying to win games by himself and that won't cut it. I don't know if it's an attitude issue or he's just dumb.

 

[Lorenzo]

They don't need to bench him, they just need him to realize when to try to score and when to pass, especially late in games. It's really that simple. Look to create a high-percentage shot for a teammate, if not, then create something for yourself. Especially when you have a player like Durant on your team. Westbrook's basketball IQ doesn't seem very high right now. He's trying to win games by himself and that won't cut it. I don't know if it's an attitude issue or he's just dumb.

I agree...and you got to remember he's only 22 years old. sometimes you have to go through these things and learn the hard way. people can try to coach him up, but for most players they have to learn through experience. the key for OKC is to leave him there and not try to give up on the guy too soon. he is a talent that can mature into a superstar if he improves his game. he is such a good scorer especially when his shot is falling and I think he has to find that balance of getting his teammates involved like he did in game 7 of the last series. right now their team is too much one on one or isolation in the half court.

 

[Lorenzo]

Big game tonight. let's see how the bulls play on the road.

 

[Cheesewater]

That "play" from LeBron James is a disgrace to the game of basketball.

 

[Cheesewater]

Ditto Mike Bibby. This is disgusting.

 

[Lorenzo]

I am very impressed by the heat in this game. their defense is impressive. and chris bosh is playing like the all star that he can be.

chicago is pretty much against dire straits now. about to go down by 10 with 5 mins left. if a 10 pt lead was ever too much I'd say it would be in this series.

 

[desertdawg]

Bosh is killing it, the Yankees..oops Miami have a lot of talent. Much props to the Bulls, I grew up on them with my Frosted Flakes, but Miami is so lopsided with talent, even their shatty coach doesn't blow it for them anymore.

Bulls can build their team to beat the Meat rather easily next year, they might even do it this year but it's looking rough.

 

[Lorenzo]

Bosh is killing it, the Yankees..oops Miami have a lot of talent. Much props to the Bulls, I grew up on them with my Frosted Flakes, but Miami is so lopsided with talent, even their shatty coach doesn't blow it for them anymore.

Bulls can build their team to beat the Meat rather easily next year, they might even do it this year but it's looking rough.

well this game is over.

they have to win game 4 or I don't see them winning the series. I originally picked the bulls so I'm not going to back out yet. but the heat are making a believer out of me. I questioned their depth, but their big 3 are really killing the bulls at both ends of the court. you really have to give wade and james credit. they are playing awesome defense. if they get some talent around them this team will win multiple rings.

 

[Ronin]

ugh rose kinda forced it too much this game.

 

[Ronin]

even their shatty coach doesn't blow it for them anymore.

Riley isn't a shatty coach.

Spoiler

any see Riley "tutoring" spolestra before the game.

 

[Lorenzo]

ugh rose kinda forced it too much this game.

well he is still a very young player. he is certainly a superstar and deserved the mvp. but he's a young player and will improve his game. his teammates are all solid. you would like to see more out of his former utah jazz mates. nice over the top layup attempt by noah. lol.

ultimately if they are to have a chance at winning the series rose has to get help like we saw in game 1. give the heat credit for bouncing back.

 

[Lorenzo]

Riley isn't a shatty coach.

Spoiler

any see Riley "tutoring" spolestra before the game.

well if they get down in a series in these playoffs don't be surprised to see riley come down the court.

 

[Lorenzo]

udonis has sparked this team.

boozer has had several and 1 misses that he used to make in utah. and he misses easy layups. what happened to this guy.

 

[desertdawg]

Riley isn't a shatty coach.

Spoiler

any see Riley "tutoring" spolestra before the game.

Nice one. (spoiler was a good touch)

But you know the deal, if the win than it's Riley's input, if not, it falls on the youngin making the bad line up calls on the court. The Meat can be beat, they lack in a couple areas they didn't really have to face in the playoffs.

 

[Ronin]

well he is still a very young player. he is certainly a superstar and deserved the mvp. but he's a young player and will improve his game. his teammates are all solid. you would like to see more out of his former utah jazz mates. nice over the top layup attempt by noah. lol.

ultimately if they are to have a chance at winning the series rose has to get help like we saw in game 1. give the heat credit for bouncing back.

Agreed...just felt his forcing the issue a little bit shooting the ball.

The Heats defense has been great defending the pick and roll...Rose has no room to operate in the half court. Ronnie Brewer and Rose back court isn't going to work.

 

[Lorenzo]

Agreed...just felt his forcing the issue a little bit shooting the ball.

The Heats defense has been great defending the pick and roll...Rose has no room to operate in the half court. Ronnie Brewer and Rose back court isn't going to work.

well we will see how chicago responds in game 4. both them and OKC are in tight spots. chicago probably even tighter having to win on the road.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My point still stands. If Dallas is going to win a title they can't fall behind in either series IMO. If they can manage to maintain leads in either series they have a legit shot at a title. Again, this team is not mentally strong enough to play from behind in a series whether they win a title or not.

I don't think even if this team wins a title they are going to shed that label. The only way to do that is to prove when their backs are to a wall in a series they can overcome a win. The Mavs still are mental midgets.

this is ludicrous. if a team wins a title they're tough enough.

and the idea that this team hasn't faced adversity just doesn't hold water. They lost their second best player with 30 games left in the season. That's adversity. They have a habit of choking in the playoffs then pull off the single biggest game choke of all time against Portland... then put their demons behind them kicking ass the next two games. That's mental toughness. They gave up homecourt advantage in the WCF and promptly came back and handled the Thunder (who have been dynamite at home) and took control of the series back the very next game. That's overcoming adversity.

and if they win the title... without HCA, against a team with three superstars, that's overcoming adversity. arguing otherwise just looks like sour grapes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

udonis has sparked this team.

boozer has had several and 1 misses that he used to make in utah. and he misses easy layups. what happened to this guy.

the playoffs happened. this is exactly what Boozer did every time the Jazz faced the Lakers in the playoffs. dude can't handle the pressure.

 

[Lorenzo]

the playoffs happened. this is exactly what Boozer did every time the Jazz faced the Lakers in the playoffs. dude can't handle the pressure.

maybe so I didn't watch a lot of the lakers/jazz games because they were usually first round. but he played better in a jazz uniform. but you may be on to something. the jazz players on the bulls wern't exactly great in the playoffs. korver is great when he is wide open to shoot a 3 but that is about it. he is not getting many if any open shots in this series. at some point rose has to start getting guys some open shots. he almost looks like westbrook out there in the since that when he drives the play is over. i mean dirk nowitzki is passing the ball better than some of these young PG's lol(sarcasm).

 

[Lorenzo]

the bulls played well enough on defense to win this game. their halfcourt offense is really killing them. they can't turn the ball over because you know that leads to 2 pts on the other end. down the stretch they had too many poor turnovers. rose needs to look to pass more and get guys open shots. but outside of korver they don't really have many open shot makers. that's what really makes them easy for the heat to guard. the heat are clogging the paint and forcing everything from the perimeter and that is the bulls major weakness right now.

 

[Lorenzo]

this is ludicrous. if a team wins a title they're tough enough.

and the idea that this team hasn't faced adversity just doesn't hold water. They lost their second best player with 30 games left in the season. That's adversity. They have a habit of choking in the playoffs then pull off the single biggest game choke of all time against Portland... then put their demons behind them kicking ass the next two games. That's mental toughness. They gave up homecourt advantage in the WCF and promptly came back and handled the Thunder (who have been dynamite at home) and took control of the series back the very next game. That's overcoming adversity.

and if they win the title... without HCA, against a team with three superstars, that's overcoming adversity. arguing otherwise just looks like sour grapes.

I agree 100%. while the regular season doesn't mean much...with butler healthy the mavs were on some kind of run with butler. back then to me they looked like the best team in the league at that point. then all hell broke loose when he and dirk got hurt. they had two impressive victories over miami with him in the lineup. at one point when miami had won all those games dallas was the only team that beat them...the miami win streak started after losing to dallas and ended when they played dallas. but again that was a long time ago when butler was averaging like 15-20 pts a game. that was a huge loss, but credit the mavs for not being impulsive and staying with their guys. also the bball gods shined on them with getting peja for nothing. he hit some massive shots in the LA series too. originally we all thought caron would be the difference maker against LA....not peja. so that was gravy and really worked out.

 

[Covert Rain]

They lost their second best player with 30 games left in the season. That's adversity.

We are talking Butler right? My brother in law is a Mavs and Dirk fan. He told me right after the injury that he didn't feel Butler would be a huge loss at all. Initially I had no clue what he was talking about and thought he was freaking crazy. Then he explained it to me.

Despite him putting up good scoring numbers he was having one of his worst efficiency ratings of his career (99 points per 100 possessions). He was the 8th out of the best 10 Mavs players averaging more than 10 minutes in true shooting % (.523). His overall offensive rating was 9th out of 10 among the same players. Yes dude was putting up points but holy crap he had to touch the ball ALOT to do so.

His argument was that losing the 8th most productive player on your team doesn't hurt you, it helps you. It meant that players like Dirk don't have to be as efficient and you have a larger margin of error per possession which takes alot of pressure off the other players. My initial reaction was that he was grasping at straws but he called it when it happened.

He follows that team much more than I do and his logic now appears to be sound. He could have just been hoping and guessing. However, since then he has also pointed out that the Mavs efficiency rating went up after injury. Personally, seeing what I have seen so far of Marion, I think Marion has been huge for the Mavs with his role since the injury as well.

They have a habit of choking in the playoffs then pull off the single biggest game choke of all time against Portland... then put their demons behind them kicking ass the next two games. That's mental toughness. They gave up homecourt advantage in the WCF and promptly came back and handled the Thunder (who have been dynamite at home) and took control of the series back the very next game. That's overcoming adversity.

Dallas won that series 4-2 and it was against Portland who many considered coming into their own. It's not like playing against the 7th or 8th seed. If Portland had won that series people wouldn't be thinking it was another Golden State scenario IMO. Everybody considered Portland a tough team to contend with in the playoffs.

arguing otherwise just looks like sour grapes.

You have to care for it to be sour grapes. Actually, for the record...I think it would be cool to see a Mavs vs Heat rematch. After watching the Thunder these past few games I am not sure they would stand a chance against the Heat or the Bulls in a final. They play too much one on one basketball. I want a great match up in the finals regardless of who gets there. I just don't buy for one second that Mavs have proven anything on the mental front just yet.

 

[TJ]

They don't need to bench him, they just need him to realize when to try to score and when to pass, especially late in games. It's really that simple. Look to create a high-percentage shot for a teammate, if not, then create something for yourself. Especially when you have a player like Durant on your team. Westbrook's basketball IQ doesn't seem very high right now. He's trying to win games by himself and that won't cut it. I don't know if it's an attitude issue or he's just dumb.

This is Westbrook's problem. He does not get everyone else involved and that's important when you have the best scorer in the league on your team.

Think all of Phil Jackson's championship teams. He never had a dynamic pointguard on any team (BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper, Derek Fischer). They were smartand they knew they were the 4th or 5th scoring option on the team and that MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe were the players to go to during crunch time.

I think Westbrook is one of the most selfish players in the league, who I think is playing more for a contract rather than a championship. Why do you think the Suns win when Nash scores 15 and dishes 13 rather than him scoring 27 and dishes 7? Everyone gets involved.