2012-2013 NBA Prospects thread

[AzStevenCal]

The kid is just starting his college career and with incredible pressures. His body, strength and skill set are incredible. I'm thinking a LeBron style body (a couple inches shorter). I think I would draft this player, if I had a top 3 pick.

Those 3 inches in height difference are huge though. His size has a lot to do with why Lebron is so difficult to guard. Shabazz probably compares better to JR Rider than Lebron IMO. Of course, if JR hadn't been such a head-case he would have waltzed into the Hall of Fame at the end of his career. I'm looking forward to seeing how he'll play as he rounds into shape but given his skill set, I suspect he'll be back to the number 1 guy by the time the draft rolls around. Hopefully, this will be the year the lottery pays off for us.

Steve

 

[thewrecking]

We need a SG/SF/and C when Gortat leaves

 

[Phrazbit]

We need a SG/SF/and C when Gortat leaves

There is no one on this roster above replacing if there is talent to be had.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We need a SG/SF/and C when Gortat leaves

I think we need a SG/PF/SF and C when Gortat leaves. We have a point guard, a backup point guard, a backup shooting guard, a backup small forward and a backup power forward so it's not like the cupboard is bare or anything.

Steve

 

[hcsilla]

But the backup PG and SG have expiring deals unless you think of Marshall as our backup PG.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But the backup PG and SG have expiring deals unless you think of Marshall as our backup PG.

I like Telfair quite a bit as a backup PG and you could do worse than to have Brown as your backup shooting guard. Unfortunately, he's our starting shooting guard and it's hard to do worse than Brown as a starting shooting guard. Well, unless you count Dudley as a starting shooting guard. How ever you look at it though, we need a couple of new starters. I'd say our biggest need by far is at shooting guard followed by power forward.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

The kid is just starting his college career and with incredible pressures. His body, strength and skill set are incredible. I'm thinking a LeBron style body (a couple inches shorter). I think I would draft this player, if I had a top 3 pick.

Skillset? LeBron?

He has no right hand at all, in fact in the Prairie View game he was trapped on the sideline just past midcourt and tried to dribble out of it with his right hand, 2nd bounce he lost it to a 6'11" guy.

His outside shot is improved but he has a very low release and its' a set shot, not going to excel shooting like that in the NBA at guard. he is very strong for his age but that's why he was so good in HS he just overpowered people. he rarely beats anybody off the dribble.

Had his best game in the last one but still wasn't exactly explosive.

he's a very good college player, so far I don't see him being a great pro but then someone has to go high in the next draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

Those 3 inches in height difference are huge though. His size has a lot to do with why Lebron is so difficult to guard. Shabazz probably compares better to JR Rider than Lebron IMO. Of course, if JR hadn't been such a head-case he would have waltzed into the Hall of Fame at the end of his career. I'm looking forward to seeing how he'll play as he rounds into shape but given his skill set, I suspect he'll be back to the number 1 guy by the time the draft rolls around. Hopefully, this will be the year the lottery pays off for us.

Steve

Rider was much bouncier.

UCLA plays UA in about a month, maybe 5 weeks. At the current setup my guess is UCLA will be playing man and Bazz will probably guard Solomon Hill. I think that's going to be a very good game to actually scout Bazz he should be in top shape by then.

Personally I expect Hill to really work him because Bazz has been very poor defending off the dribble and UA will just isolate Hill on him and let him drive. I don't see a logical other matchup Anderson won't be able to guard Hill and Powell and Adams will be taking turns guarding Nick(or Lyons).

 

[jagu]

Shabazz made a mistake deciding to go to UCLA. That team is horrible, the offense they run is clueless.
Shabazz will get better as he gets in shape from the shoulder injury, bit too early to judge him on such a bad team, he is still finding ways to put up decent numbers for a freshman.

That said I like Goodwin maybe better right now and I think that Smart and McLemore are also fantastic guard prospects.

Shabazz isn't explosive enough to be a star at the NBA level. I like Shabazz but he is no lock and has a great chance of being a big bust at the NBA level.

 

[HooverDam]

a backup point guard,

We do? You can't be talking about Kendall Marshall, can you? He stunk in the D-league. I don't think he makes it through 3 years in the league at this rate.

There is no one on this roster above replacing if there is talent to be had.

Agreed, the Suns need to draft Best Player Available. Their "need" position is "talent."

 

[AzStevenCal]

We do? You can't be talking about Kendall Marshall, can you? He stunk in the D-league. I don't think he makes it through 3 years in the league at this rate.

No, I was talking about Telfair. I have no idea what we have in Marshall. I didn't like the pick for several reasons, number one being that I thought he would have been available in the 2nd round or maybe even undrafted and I preferred that direction rather than drastically over-drafting him. It's possible he would have gone a pick or two later but then some other team would have to deal with the fact that as an NBA project, he's very flawed. I'm not saying he can't become a decent player but it's stacked against him.

Steve

 

[Ronin]

Can anybody explain to me why Noel is getting so much love?
Skinny? Yup
Post up skills? laughable
Outside shot? Errrr
Defense? Gets pushed around on the block...but boy he sure does get those blocks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Can anybody explain to me why Noel is getting so much love?
Skinny? Yup
Post up skills? laughable
Outside shot? Errrr
Defense? Gets pushed around on the block...but boy he sure does get those blocks.

He's drawing far more criticism than praise on this forum. It seems premature to me. With guys like him I think it's better to focus on his positives rather than dwell on his negatives. He has great length, he's extremely athletic, he's a very quick jumper, has excellent timing on blocks, is a very good passer and is leaps and bounds better offensively today than a year ago today. He's a long way from a finished prospect but despite his bust potential, he has a very high ceiling. I'd much rather find a Tim Duncan than take a gamble on someone like this but fully developed college-aged big men like Duncan are few and far between.

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

He has great length, he's extremely athletic, he's a very quick jumper, has excellent timing on blocks, is a very good passer and is leaps and bounds better offensively today than a year ago today.

He doesn't really have good timing or anticipation on blocks or steals, he just gets a lot because of his athletic ability. He's frequently out of position over pursuing plays and relies entirely on his athleticism.

Really his positives are great athlete that has amazing quickness for someone his length and has a good motor. He's a decent passer too, but that gets diminished since he has no other offensive skill.

 

[SirStefan32]

He's drawing far more criticism than praise on this forum. It seems premature to me. With guys like him I think it's better to focus on his positives rather than dwell on his negatives. He has great length, he's extremely athletic, he's a very quick jumper, has excellent timing on blocks, is a very good passer and is leaps and bounds better offensively today than a year ago today. He's a long way from a finished prospect but despite his bust potential, he has a very high ceiling. I'd much rather find a Tim Duncan than take a gamble on someone like this but fully developed college-aged big men like Duncan are few and far between.

Steve

You are exactly right. People forget that he is so young and big men take a while to develop, both physically and in terms of their basketball IQ.

I am still not sold on Noel in particular, but I am not ready to declare him a bust just yet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are exactly right. People forget that he is so young and big men take a while to develop, both physically and in terms of their basketball IQ.

I am still not sold on Noel in particular, but I am not ready to declare him a bust just yet.

I agree with this. This draft has a lot of solid players that will put in a decade or so in this league. But, the half a dozen or so players that show signs of being something special all come with question marks. Neol comes with some big question marks but he has some attributes that are definitely NBA level.

If Noel was a highly visible point guard, I'd be running away from him but the only way you can label this guy as a future anything is to call your local psychic. It's way too early to call him superstar or washout. Let him fill out and continue learning the game. Seriously, he's not even half way through his freshman year and a lot of his peers are still waiting for court time.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

He doesn't really have good timing or anticipation on blocks or steals, he just gets a lot because of his athletic ability. He's frequently out of position over pursuing plays and relies entirely on his athleticism.

Really his positives are great athlete that has amazing quickness for someone his length and has a good motor. He's a decent passer too, but that gets diminished since he has no other offensive skill.

First off- I know exactly what you are saying. People talk about steals and blocks as "defense." In my opinion, blocks and steals are a nice bonus, but they are not "defense."
To me, defense has two factors- on the ball defense and help defense. I want to see someone defend in a post up situation, and in a face-up situation, and I want to see their footwork on defensive rotations. Blocks and steals are a nice bonus, but if they cannot stop their man from posting up or driving on them, and if they are not rotating defensively- they are not good defenders.

I admit that I have not seen Noel play much, but in a couple of games I did observe, I was very concerned with his defense. To be fair, issue of post-up defense can be solved- he needs to bulk up, and that will happen naturally in a couple of years. His footwork seems to be OK for a young kid fresh out of high school. I think if we stops gambling for steals and stops biting on pump-fakes, as well as add 30-40lb to his frame, he could be a scary defender.

I guess I need to watch him some more and see how accurate my initial observations were.

 

[Ronin]

with UClA crumbling in the second half....Shabazz has stepped up his game!

 

[Errntknght]

First off- I know exactly what you are saying. People talk about steals and blocks as "defense." In my opinion, blocks and steals are a nice bonus, but they are not "defense."
To me, defense has two factors- on the ball defense and help defense. I want to see someone defend in a post up situation, and in a face-up situation, and I want to see their footwork on defensive rotations. Blocks and steals are a nice bonus, but if they cannot stop their man from posting up or driving on them, and if they are not rotating defensively- they are not good defenders.

I have to take some issue with lumping steals and blocks together. I agree that steals usually come at the expense of good defense but a shot blocker can get into player's heads to the point that they forego shots or alter their shot or don't make a drive into his domain. It takes a modicum of discipline - you can't leave your man at the rim to chase a block unless you're very likely to get the block - but nothing improves your perimeter D like having a potent shot blocker behind it.
Of course, most blocks come from 'help' defense so they're not separate things, as seem to be indicating.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have to take some issue with lumping steals and blocks together. I agree that steals usually come at the expense of good defense but a shot blocker can get into player's heads to the point that they forego shots or alter their shot or don't make a drive into his domain. It takes a modicum of discipline - you can't leave your man at the rim to chase a block unless you're very likely to get the block - but nothing improves your perimeter D like having a potent shot blocker behind it.
Of course, most blocks come from 'help' defense so they're not separate things, as seem to be indicating.

I might be missing your point here. I even said that blocks (and steals) were a very nice bonus, but blocks do not equal defense. Amare could block some shots in his early years, but he was a terrible defender. Dikembe Mutombo could block shots and he was a very good defender.

My point is that I am sick of hearing how how of a defender someone is because he blocks shots. This started bothering me after Amare was proclaimed by draft scouts to be the next Ben Wallace defensively because he could block shots. It just keeps happening.

Not every good shot-blocker is a good defender, and not every good defender is a shot-blocker. Shot-blocking does not equal defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

I might be missing your point here. I even said that blocks (and steals) were a very nice bonus, but blocks do not equal defense. Amare could block some shots in his early years, but he was a terrible defender. Dikembe Mutombo could block shots and he was a very good defender.

My point is that I am sick of hearing how how of a defender someone is because he blocks shots. This started bothering me after Amare was proclaimed by draft scouts to be the next Ben Wallace defensively because he could block shots. It just keeps happening.

Not every good shot-blocker is a good defender, and not every good defender is a shot-blocker. Shot-blocking does not equal defense.

Although a good defender who is a shot blocker can drastically change the game by blocking, intimidating and altering shots. I remember the early years of Kareem, players had to change their shot strategy because he could block any shot that got near the rim. I guess the point is, blocking shots alone does not mean good defense in the modern age. Flash over substance often prevails.

 

[BC867]

Although a good defender who is a shot blocker can drastically change the game by blocking, intimidating and altering shots. I remember the early years of Kareem, players had to change their shot strategy because he could block any shot that got near the rim. I guess the point is, blocking shots alone does not mean good defense in the modern age. Flash over substance often prevails.

'Good point. Blocking shots alone does not mean good defense.

But intimidating and altering shots is more than flash. It is a part of good defense.

 

[Errntknght]

Well, I don't feel responsible for the silly things that other people say - I certainly did not equate blocking shots with defense.

While Amare was a pitiful defender, it wasn't his shot blocking that made him bad. It was the one good thing about his defense. Now Steven Hunter was a different story, he was a much better defender than Amare but his shot blocking didn't contribute a whole lot to that because he tried to block far too many shots out of his range and whiffed - leaving his man to put the rebound back in should the shot miss.

I wouldn't say that steals are even a bonus in general. There are years when team steals correlates negatively with team's W-L records - other years it has a very small positive correlation. Team blocked shots however has a large positive correlation with winning - every year that I've done the computations (five years).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Big men do not fully mature until they are about 25 or so. Anyone who drafts Noel has to understand this.

 

[Ronin]

Alex Len had meh day against Mason Plumlee.