2013 Summer League

[Sci Fi]

Exactly. He did well in Summer League last year, and was a complete waste of time during the regular season. Do it when it counts, and I'll be impressed.

The difference between his play in SL this year versus last has been considerably better. It's not even close. I'm very happy with his progress. I think he's looked great.

Greg Popovich gave Kawhi Leonard specific instructions last year on what he was looking for during his summer league play. One can only assume that Pop believes these games matter. But hey, what does Pop know?

 

[Sci Fi]

I'll take that bet. And I don't even gamble.

Please clarify. You think he wins ROY?

 

[Phrazbit]

Goodwin is going to struggle... guy is an 18 year old rookie with a jump shot that, to put mildly, needs some work. All I want to see from him is progress from the beginning of the year to the end of it. Putting expectations like "contend for rookie of the year" is only setting yourself up for a severe disappointment, he wont be anywhere near that award.

 

[Errntknght]

Scanning through the SL stats I noticed that McLemore has racked up a grand total of zero assists thus far. In 4 games at 28.8 per thats pretty dang hard for a guard to do.
That makes his .281 FG% look better doesn't it?

He might be a good test case for slinslin's theorem that success in the SL doesn't mean squat but failing in the SL predicts failure in the league. (I think someone else mentioned there were numerous counter examples already and, of course, with such a small sample size its essentially guaranteed.)

 

[AzStevenCal]

Scanning through the SL stats I noticed that McLemore has racked up a grand total of zero assists thus far. In 4 games at 28.8 per thats pretty dang hard for a guard to do.
That makes his .281 FG% look better doesn't it?

He might be a good test case for slinslin's theorem that success in the SL doesn't mean squat but failing in the SL predicts failure in the league. (I think someone else mentioned there were numerous counter examples already and, of course, with such a small sample size its essentially guaranteed.)

I don't think that's slinslin's theorem.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Please clarify. You think he wins ROY?

I think that's what he's saying and like you, I'd be thrilled to take the action. I'm not sure Goodwin's chances at ROY are much better than our chances of winning it all this year. Even if he comes out of the gates strong it's highly unlikely he'll finish that way. His body just isn't developed enough to take the day in, day out grind of the NBA IMO. I think he'll have the occasional great game surrounded by several lackluster performances.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Please clarify. You think he wins ROY?

He's saying that if Goodwin shows that he can get to the FT line consistently at the NBA level once season starts and gets good playing time, then he can win ROY.

At least I hope that's what he's saying.

However, those are big "if"s which I also clarified in the end of my post.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I'm as much on the Archie Goodwin bandwagon as everyone else...but moreso because of what he COULD BE and not because of what he is right now, so winning the ROY is a stretch.

IMO, from what I've see thus far, Oladipo is my leading candidate for ROY. Bennett will contend as well I think, as he'll benefit from Irving's playmaking.

 

[Sunburn]

Please clarify. You think he wins ROY?

Haha, no. I definitely do not think Archie Goodwin will win the ROY.

 

[Sunburn]

He's saying that if Goodwin shows that he can get to the FT line consistently at the NBA level once season starts and gets good playing time, then he can win ROY.

At least I hope that's what he's saying.

However, those are big "if"s which I also clarified in the end of my post.

Lol no I am definitely not saying that. I am saying there is zero chance Archie Goodwin wins the ROY this year. I like Archie. I like his potential, but watching him during SL, he is waaayyyyyy too raw right now.

 

[Sunburn]

I'm as much on the Archie Goodwin bandwagon as everyone else...but moreso because of what he COULD BE and not because of what he is right now, so winning the ROY is a stretch.

IMO, from what I've see thus far, Oladipo is my leading candidate for ROY. Bennett will contend as well I think, as he'll benefit from Irving's playmaking.

I agree about Oladipo. He is my choice if I had to pick the ROY right now. He was a straight killer in his match-up against MCW. He showed number one option scoring potential that I did not know he had. I already had a mancrush on him for his defensive credentials.

I also agree about Goodwin. Great post Chi

 

[Sunburn]

Scanning through the SL stats I noticed that McLemore has racked up a grand total of zero assists thus far. In 4 games at 28.8 per thats pretty dang hard for a guard to do.
That makes his .281 FG% look better doesn't it?

He might be a good test case for slinslin's theorem that success in the SL doesn't mean squat but failing in the SL predicts failure in the league. (I think someone else mentioned there were numerous counter examples already and, of course, with such a small sample size its essentially guaranteed.)

Thank you. I was wondering if I was the only one noticing Mclemore's wretched play. I'd be crapping my pants right now if we'd selected him at 5.

 

[elindholm]

Just for some perspective, the latest-drafted Rookie of the Year was Mark Jackson, taken #18 in 1987, and second is Stoudemire at #9 (2002).

 

[Phrazbit]

Just for some perspective, the latest-drafted Rookie of the Year was Mark Jackson, taken #18 in 1987, and second is Stoudemire at #9 (2002).

Screw perspective! The guy is holding his own the summer league... the NBA SUMMER LEAGUE!!!

 

[SirStefan32]

He's saying that if Goodwin shows that he can get to the FT line consistently at the NBA level once season starts and gets good playing time, then he can win ROY.

At least I hope that's what he's saying.

However, those are big "if"s which I also clarified in the end of my post.

If he starts getting to the line consistently, teams will back off and dare him to shoot.

I think even the best case scenario for Archie contributing is about 2 years from now. People who are expecting much this year or even next, are probably going to be very disappointed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If he starts getting to the line consistently, teams will back off and dare him to shoot.

I think even the best case scenario for Archie contributing is about 2 years from now. People who are expecting much this year or even next, are probably going to be very disappointed.

I think he's even further away than that and my concern is that fans (even some on this forum) will turn on him when they see him on a daily basis. I'd hate to see it create an environment he'll be anxious to escape from when his rookie contract is up. It would be nice if they encouraged him to pretty much ignore the offensive side of the game and just focus on becoming a defensive force. Let him add a little offense each offseason but earn his court time as a stopper.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I think he's even further away than that and my concern is that fans (even some on this forum) will turn on him when they see him on a daily basis. I'd hate to see it create an environment he'll be anxious to escape from when his rookie contract is up. It would be nice if they encouraged him to pretty much ignore the offensive side of the game and just focus on becoming a defensive force. Let him add a little offense each offseason but earn his court time as a stopper.

Steve

That's actually a great point, Steve! I hope that the coaching staff and the Management have a nice conversation with Archie and explain what their expectations are. At the end of the day, fans and the media don't matter as much as good management and coaching.

If I were the coach/ GM/ Owner, my expectations would be:
1. Watch Tucker- that's the level of effort I am looking for (especially on defense.)
2. Stay after practice every single day and shoot 500 threes, long jumpers, and mid-range jumpers.
3. When you get frustrated, come see me! Day or night, Monday or Saturday, over the phone or in my office- doesn't matter. You express your frustration to ME, not to media or on twitter.
4. Do not worry about numbers- you just do the right thing, buy into what coach/GM/Owner are telling you, and the numbers will fix themselves.
5. Be patient! We did not draft you for what you can do now, but because of what you will be able to do 2, 3, 4 years from now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's actually a great point, Steve! I hope that the coaching staff and the Management have a nice conversation with Archie and explain what their expectations are. At the end of the day, fans and the media don't matter as much as good management and coaching.

If I were the coach/ GM/ Owner, my expectations would be:
1. Watch Tucker- that's the level of effort I am looking for (especially on defense.)
2. Stay after practice every single day and shoot 500 threes, long jumpers, and mid-range jumpers.
3. When you get frustrated, come see me! Day or night, Monday or Saturday, over the phone or in my office- doesn't matter. You express your frustration to ME, not to media or on twitter.
4. Do not worry about numbers- you just do the right thing, buy into what coach/GM/Owner are telling you, and the numbers will fix themselves.
5. Be patient! We did not draft you for what you can do now, but because of what you will be able to do 2, 3, 4 years from now.

Good post, I suspect Hornacek will do something like this with each of our younger players.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

If he starts getting to the line consistently, teams will back off and dare him to shoot.

I think even the best case scenario for Archie contributing is about 2 years from now. People who are expecting much this year or even next, are probably going to be very disappointed.

Right, and then that will mean that he won't be getting to the FT line constantly if teams dare him to shoot, therefore him not becoming ROY.

And I'm expecting Goodwin to suck a lot for the next 2 years. So unless he becomes a problem for the coaching staff or something like that, Goodwin can't disappoint me. I don't even think he'll get more than 5 mins of playing time cause of how raw and how small he is (strength wise)

I think watching and learning from guys like Dragic, Tucker, Bledsoe (defensively) will do him real good and he can be a special player in 2-3 years.

 

[Superbone]

The Suns quarterfinal game is being broadcast live on NBATV at 3:00 PT/AZ. Hopefully, no more impromptu press conferences.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The difference between his play in SL this year versus last has been considerably better. It's not even close. I'm very happy with his progress. I think he's looked great.

2012 Summer League Statistics

PPG
19.8
RPG
9.80
APG
2.0
EFF
+ 21.80

2013 Summer League Statistics

PPG
14.8
RPG
6.50
APG
1.5
EFF
+ 18.25

Better come up with some amazing intangible evidence, because your claim on face value is laughable. His numbers are down across the board, and he still fouls at a remarkable rate. What games have you been watching?

Greg Popovich gave Kawhi Leonard specific instructions last year on what he was looking for during his summer league play. One can only assume that Pop believes these games matter. But hey, what does Pop know?

Talent, for one. Are you honestly comparing any aspect of Leonard, one of the top young talents in the NBA, to Markieff Morris, a guy who didn't add any value to arguably the worst roster in the NBA?

 

[Sci Fi]

2012 Summer League Statistics



Better come up with some amazing intangible evidence, because your claim on face value is laughable. His numbers are down across the board, and he still fouls at a remarkable rate. What games have you been watching?



Talent, for one. Are you honestly comparing any aspect of Leonard, one of the top young talents in the NBA, to Markieff Morris, a guy who didn't add any value to arguably the worst roster in the NBA?

I'm not sure if you're trolling accidentally or intentionally. How about we added some context. The format I'm using for all categories is stat/36 min except TS%. 2013 first and then 2012.

PTS 25.3 23.1
OR 3.4 3.3
DR 7.7 8.2
Assists 2.6 2.3
TO 3.4 2.8
Steals 1.3 0.9
BS 1.7 2.3
TS% 69.2 52.2

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. Maybe you should get over your dislike of Morris. It might improve your vision.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure if you're trolling accidentally or intentionally. How about we added some context. The format I'm using for all categories is stat/36 min except TS%. 2013 first and then 2012.

PTS 25.3 23.1
OR 3.4 3.3
DR 7.7 8.2
Assists 2.6 2.3
TO 3.4 2.8
Steals 1.3 0.9
BS 1.7 2.3
TS% 69.2 52.2

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. Maybe you should get over your dislike of Morris. It might improve your vision.

He's certainly not trolling, he simply took the first set of numbers he ran across without digging any deeper. Most of us would have done the same when preparing to respond to your post especially since you gave us no reason not to. And, while your stats do paint a better picture of Markieff than ASUCHRIS's numbers did they don't justify the moderately snide tone of your response. Consider that the post he responded to made the following claim:

The difference between his play in SL this year versus last has been considerably better. It's not even close."

I'd say, looking at your numbers, they are pretty much the definition of "close". BTW, I agree ASUCHRIS is being a bit harsh in his evaluation of Morris. I think he's judging Markieff mostly on the strength of his weakest performances and treating his better performances as outliers.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess to each his own, but these stat arguments do not do much for me. I like to evaluate players based upon their performance on the court. Even Ryan McDonough said analytics is a supplement to scouting. If we are talking about Markieff Morris as a PF, IMO, he is nothing more than a role player on a good team.

 

[Sci Fi]

He's certainly not trolling, he simply took the first set of numbers he ran across without digging any deeper. Most of us would have done the same when preparing to respond to your post especially since you gave us no reason not to. And, while your stats do paint a better picture of Markieff than ASUCHRIS's numbers did they don't justify the moderately snide tone of your response. Consider that the post he responded to made the following claim:



I'd say, looking at your numbers, they are pretty much the definition of "close". BTW, I agree ASUCHRIS is being a bit harsh in his evaluation of Morris. I think he's judging Markieff mostly on the strength of his weakest performances and treating his better performances as outliers.

Steve

I'm sorry, Steve but my "tone" was in response to his tone. If he doesn't understand the concept of minutes played or efficiency, then he shouldn't be judging people as "laughable" or question what game they're watching. As to the stats being close, yes they are UNTIL you look at TS%. We'll just have to disagree on both points.