2013 Summer League

[Mainstreet]

I hope they take a good look at Onuaku, and give him a chance this year.

Same here. He is a dirt worker inside. Every team needs one, especially with Len having question marks.

I must say I am very pleased with the Suns drafting Goodwin. Drafting him alone would have made it a good draft. He has no fear driving the ball inside which is a rarity for a young player.

 

[Errntknght]

Maybe we should reconsider throwing Garret away... he got 12 assists in 20 min today and also tied for top +/- at +13. Its not entirely a fluke as he assisted at a slightly higher rate than Marshall last season. Dragic 8.8/40, Marshall 8.1 and Garret 8.2. He's a worse shooter than Marshall but he's much more agressive - 3 times as many FT/40 and double the number of Reb/40. It will cost almost nothing to keep him around.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree- especially if Marshall gets traded. It's always good to have an extra point guard around. He is not a good shooter, not a great playmaker, but he is aggressive and he does play some defense.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Christmas is NOT about giving!

I'm sorry, I want a role player that understands his role. Not one who wants to be the star. Give me a guy like Tucker for that job. Yeh, Christmas has some offensive ability but I had enough of non-team ball last year with Beas and Brown. He's not that bad but still. He's also a poor defender with poor (or worse) lateral movement plus he's a ball watcher. He even looked Marshall off once after a rebound to bring the ball up. Pass.

The summer league for alot of these guys is an audition for a job, so I think showing off their skillset takes precedence over doing the little things that role players do to help teams win games. I think that Christmas has an NBA skillset and should land somewhere this season even if its not with us

 

[ProdigalSun]

Wondered how Archie would respond after a bad game yesterday.

I think today was a good sign.

I looked at his twitter earlier today and it looked like he stayed late after the game last night to shoot around and he obviously had a very good game tonight. If he can keep up that work ethic with his obvious natural ability....the sky is the limit

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The summer league for alot of these guys is an audition for a job, so I think showing off their skillset takes precedence over doing the little things that role players do to help teams win games. I think that Christmas has an NBA skillset and should land somewhere this season even if its not with us

Funny thing is that I have heard some interviews of coaches while watching SL games this year and when asked what they are looking for in the players on the court, they say it isn't about the stat sheet, but all the little things they do to help the team win.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Which part of the Marcus analysis? The SL game part, the long term part or the trade? He's not that far away now with reasonable athletic ability for his size and some decent shooting skill that can be improved. He wasn't that far from starting on a playoff team last year in Houston.

he was discarded for a 2nd round pick. doesn't seem like a guy who was close to starting for Houston.

that being said, he's got more upside then his brother.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Funny thing is that I have heard some interviews of coaches while watching SL games this year and when asked what they are looking for in the players on the court, they say it isn't about the stat sheet, but all the little things they do to help the team win.

These players or auditioning not just for the teams they are playing on but for all the teams. I believe it would be hard to get a sense of intangibles or "little things" that a guy would provide if they weren't on your team...so filling up a stat sheet to get noticed would still be important I would think

 

[SirStefan32]

he was discarded for a 2nd round pick. doesn't seem like a guy who was close to starting for Houston.

that being said, he's got more upside then his brother.

In all fairness, he was discarded for a 2nd round pick in order to shed salary. Every single move the Rockets made last year and this year was all about shedding salary to be able to get Harden and Howard.

While I don't disagree with the assessment that he is not a good basketball player, the argument that he is not good because he was traded for a 2nd round pick is very unfair.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't know if this team will always need a true PG on the floor, because I think there will be group of players who might be asked to start the offense off. PG will be deemphasized a bit here, IMO, even if we're not seeing it in the summer leagues. It will be more about ball movement and distribution from multiple players.

And pace. Lots of tempo.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

These players or auditioning not just for the teams they are playing on but for all the teams. I believe it would be hard to get a sense of intangibles or "little things" that a guy would provide if they weren't on your team...so filling up a stat sheet to get noticed would still be important I would think

I get where you're coming from, but it's not like the other teams aren't having there scouts watch them live and watching the game film and things like that. Yes stats can be a good thing, but honestly the best way for these guys to make it is to show that they can and will do all the little thing that it takes to win games. Most teams aren't scraping through the SL looking for scorers, but they are looking for guys to fill roles similar to that of Tucker for instance.

 

[Superbone]

Goodwin should have stayed in school. He needs to go to d-league so he can get minutes. He has not progressed enough where minutes in real NBA games would be helpful. You can see the talent, and he will likely progress quickly. I would leave him in the D-League until after the new year.

Tell that to his game three SL performance. And you might need to talk to coach too.

Seth Pollack ‏@sethpo
Jeff Hornacek said Archie Goodwin will contribute immediately for the Suns. Interesting.

If he had stayed in school, we probably wouldn't have been able to get him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Tell that to his game three SL performance. And you might need to talk to coach too.

Seth Pollack ‏@sethpo
Jeff Hornacek said Archie Goodwin will contribute immediately for the Suns. Interesting.

If he had stayed in school, we probably wouldn't have been able to get him.

At least not with a late first round pick like we did. He could have possibly ended up our lottery pick next year had he stayed.

 

[Superbone]

At least not with a late first round pick like we did. He could have possibly ended up our lottery pick next year had he stayed.

Now we'll just be forced to pair him with Wiggins. Oh, well.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Now we'll just be forced to pair him with Wiggins. Oh, well.

Crossing my fingers..

 

[AzStevenCal]

Tell that to his game three SL performance. And you might need to talk to coach too.

Seth Pollack ‏@sethpo
Jeff Hornacek said Archie Goodwin will contribute immediately for the Suns. Interesting.

If he had stayed in school, we probably wouldn't have been able to get him.

Quite true. But still, taking us out of the picture, he probably should have stayed in school. It's going to be tough on him competing against full grown men given that he needs to both fill out and learn the game. He's not much different from the high school players that were entering the league a decade ago. A few of them became superstars but many of them never developed and it's anyone's guess which one he'll be. But if he and Bledsoe can both hit their potential we'll be well on our way to contender status in no time.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

At least not with a late first round pick like we did. He could have possibly ended up our lottery pick next year had he stayed.

It's funny cause Sarver actually said exactly thing in his interview today.

Sarver said that McDonough's main reasoning for drafting Goodwin was that Goodwin would have been a top 10 pick in the next draft so basically the Suns got a top 10 pick at #29.

 

[Gaddabout]

Sarver said that McDonough's main reasoning for drafting Goodwin was that Goodwin would have been a top 10 pick in the next draft so basically the Suns got a top 10 pick at #29.

Welllll ... Goodwin's missing out on starting 40+ games with lots of good coaching, not to mention being allowed to mature physically, emotionally and mentally with his peers for one more year. Instead, he's going to get paid $1.09 million a year for doing a lot of sitting and watching, and he's only got two years to show value.

I'm going to suggest the arc on Goodwin's career is a bit steeper on this side because of his decision to leave early, so he's probably not going to be quite the player in two years that he would be if he had stayed in school.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Welllll ... Goodwin's missing out on starting 40+ games with lots of good coaching, not to mention being allowed to mature physically, emotionally and mentally with his peers for one more year. Instead, he's going to get paid $1.09 million a year for doing a lot of sitting and watching, and he's only got two years to show value.

I'm going to suggest the arc on Goodwin's career is a bit steeper on this side because of his decision to leave early, so he's probably not going to be quite the player in two years that he would be if he had stayed in school.

In the past, your point would be dead on but it's a little more gray in today's world. Coaches and players have such a short time together thanks to the NCAA that they just don't get the in-depth teaching they used to receive. Also, most teams have adjusted to this change and have started working with the younger players on the kinds of things that traditionally were taught in college (or earlier). More than anything I worry about the physical maturity issue and the wear and tear his body will take playing against men instead of boys over an 82 game schedule.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Welllll ... Goodwin's missing out on starting 40+ games with lots of good coaching, not to mention being allowed to mature physically, emotionally and mentally with his peers for one more year. Instead, he's going to get paid $1.09 million a year for doing a lot of sitting and watching, and he's only got two years to show value.

I'm going to suggest the arc on Goodwin's career is a bit steeper on this side because of his decision to leave early, so he's probably not going to be quite the player in two years that he would be if he had stayed in school.

That is a bad argument. In the NBA even if he does not play a lot he will have much more time to focus on basketball and will be able to measure himself in practice against better players and will also practice in a NBA system and environment.

If he can't develop bein on a pro team what makes you think he could develop more in college with amateur coaching, time to spend on college courses etc.

Right nothing..

NCAAB is probably the worst environment to develop actual NBA skills as a player. If I was an agent of a top highschool player I'd explore every possiblity to play a year professionally in Europe instead.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I think its already been mentioned here before, but another year in that environment was more likely going to be detrimental to Archie anyways. Calipari's rough "in your face" style of coaching hurt Archie's confidence last year and at least partially explains the lack of development in his game over the course of the year IMO.

Its obvious that he needs to fill out his frame and get stronger. But one of the biggest knocks on his game coming in was his shooting and its really encouraging how much this has already improved. In the end, its just exciting to have a young kid oozing with potential to cheer for and watch grow after these past few years of having an empty cupboard

 

[JCSunsfan]

Welllll ... Goodwin's missing out on starting 40+ games with lots of good coaching, not to mention being allowed to mature physically, emotionally and mentally with his peers for one more year. Instead, he's going to get paid $1.09 million a year for doing a lot of sitting and watching, and he's only got two years to show value.

I'm going to suggest the arc on Goodwin's career is a bit steeper on this side because of his decision to leave early, so he's probably not going to be quite the player in two years that he would be if he had stayed in school.

This is why a good developmental league for the NBA is important. They need to remove the restriction on drafting high schoolers. But they need to require that they spend a year (or even two) in the developmental league before they are big league eligible. Then the same restriction should exist for college. They are not eligible to be drafted until after their sophomore year.

This would benefit the NBA, college programs, AND the kids.

Making kids go to college who are not mentally college material just makes a mockery of the whole idea of the student athlete. Kids who value education will go and benefit. Kids for whom it is not a good idea do not have to fake it (I have five children, four are definitely college material, but one really would benefit from a trade school instead).

This idea that everyone needs to go to college does not make sense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That is a bad argument. In the NBA even if he does not play a lot he will have much more time to focus on basketball and will be able to measure himself in practice against better players and will also practice in a NBA system and environment.

If he can't develop bein on a pro team what makes you think he could develop more in college with amateur coaching, time to spend on college courses etc.

Right nothing..

NCAAB is probably the worst environment to develop actual NBA skills as a player. If I was an agent of a top highschool player I'd explore every possiblity to play a year professionally in Europe instead.

I think, in the previous post I made, I basically agreed with your premise. Europe would be a similar experience to what the NBA developmental league should be.

I think I disagree with one thing. The college ranks do not have amateur coaching. Some of the best coaches in the world are in the NCAA and they are often better equipped to bring along young players than pro coaches.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think, in the previous post I made, I basically agreed with your premise. Europe would be a similar experience to what the NBA developmental league should be.

I think I disagree with one thing. The college ranks do not have amateur coaching. Some of the best coaches in the world are in the NCAA and they are often better equipped to bring along young players than pro coaches.

The difference is that the Euro coaches aren't restricted in the number of hours they can work with their kids like the US college coaches are. The NCAA has shortened the window for teaching considerably and it shows. Going to Europe may not be the answer though as the differences between their game and ours is still significant and when you factor in language and cultural differences much time and focus can be lost to the process of acclimation.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The difference is that the Euro coaches aren't restricted in the number of hours they can work with their kids like the US college coaches are. The NCAA has shortened the window for teaching considerably and it shows. Going to Europe may not be the answer though as the differences between their game and ours is still significant and when you factor in language and cultural differences much time and focus can be lost to the process of acclimation.

Steve

Yep. I fully anticipate the ridiculous charade of "student athlete" to go by the wayside at some point here. It's a complete farce that these kids don't get paid for the revenue they're generating, and to have them show up for half a semester, drop out and be assoicated with a school is ridiculous.