2014 Suns Free Agency

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
Yep. IF LeBron is leaving Miami, and now I think it is more likely than less, the competition is Houston, Lakers, Cleveland, Dallas, Chicago. Any others?

I like the look of that. After playing with an old and breaking down Wade, LeBron is smart enough to realize the prospects of playing with now injury prone Kobe or Dirk. Houston can get him, but will have to get help from some other team to do it. Chicago is going hard after Melo and cannot do both.

Sweet. The amazing thing is that we could sign LeBron and still have enough room next summer to sign another max or near max player.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,495
Reaction score
9,716
Location
L.A. area
Yep. IF LeBron is leaving Miami, and now I think it is more likely than less, the competition is Houston, Lakers, Cleveland, Dallas, Chicago. Any others?

That sounds about right, and really I can't see the Lakers or Mavericks in the running. Both of those teams have already won titles with their current aging franchise players, and the supporting casts are thin. So it's Houston, who would have to move out salary to make room; Cleveland, where there may or may not be too much baggage; and Chicago, which is probably the front-runner (after Miami) based on the overall strength of their roster.

I'd put Phoenix fifth on the list of most likely destinations. Miami still leads.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,169
Reaction score
58,469
I think Lebron stays in Miami. IMO, this is all theater to make the league office wink at all the doings down there. However, if Lebron were to leave Miami, I think the Suns would be behind Chicago and Houston. Lebron knows what he wants to do. He has had enough time to think about.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
Yep. IF LeBron is leaving Miami, and now I think it is more likely than less, the competition is Houston, Lakers, Cleveland, Dallas, Chicago. Any others?

I like the look of that. After playing with an old and breaking down Wade, LeBron is smart enough to realize the prospects of playing with now injury prone Kobe or Dirk. Houston can get him, but will have to get help from some other team to do it. Chicago is going hard after Melo and cannot do both.

Sweet. The amazing thing is that we could sign LeBron and still have enough room next summer to sign another max or near max player.

I'd definitely say we're in the mix, and maybe even the favorites. I know, homer bias, but we do have arguably the most to offer, and even if we were 2nd or 3rd, we are in the mix.

The thing is, many of the teams you've listed are making their own moves and sucking up their cap space. Their impatience might ruin their chances to get Lebron.

Will Cleveland have the money? My guess is only if Utah matches, which is likely. If they get Heywood for the max, without crunching the numbers, and knowing that only us and the Lakers could afford two max players, my thought is no, Cleveland wouldn't be in the mix, unless Lebron accepts a non max offer, which he's said he won't.

Lakers? No way. That team is not getting Lebron. Jerry Buss is dead and Jerry West isn't there, and Gasol wants to leave, and he isn't the only Laker likely to leave for greener pastures. Everything points to no. He's not going to sign onto one of the worst teams in the league, if not the worst (upcoming season) simply because of the legacy. The Lakers right now look like they're going to be worse then last year, unless Kobe can average 25-30 points a game for 75+ games.

Houston? Doubt it/depends. They are going after Melo. If they get Melo, they will need to make other moves, which is possible, but unlikely to happen quickly. Also talk of them signing Lowry.

Dallas? Doubt it. Cuban has said he won't be giving out a max contract, and they too are courting Melo. They also are older, but shouldn't be completely discounted.

Chicago? Possible, but they are courting Melo and don't have room for both.

I would have said GS early on as an intriguing possibility, but they haven't made any trades to clear space, haven't gotten Love, and only had an exception they used on Livingston. They have zero flexibility besides trades and it'll be that way for years. Plus they keep saying they don't want to get rid of Klay which will limit their trade options.

Perhaps there is someone else, but I don't see it. I don't see Lebron going to the Knicks if Melo leaves, and even if he stays, I don't see it as likely. Phil Jackson was a great coach. Front office? He might just be a regular Joe. He sure doesn't have ultimate power as ownership showed right after Phil signed on the dotted line.

If you ask me, it's probably between US and Chicago or Houston depending on whoever doesn't sign Melo.

We still are the only ones who don't have to make a move between them, and have much more flexibility then either.

Indeed what Gambo said about how our plan WAS planned to be, and how Sarver changed that to now being patient and waiting for Lebron AFTER their contact with Lebron's agent, may indeed be good news.

Still way too early, but other teams aren't waiting, and each one that doesn't wait by adding a guy, takes them further out of the mix and gives us a better shot to land him. Each guy they or someone else signs, is another guy Miami can't improve with either.

Here's a link to cap space. I don't know how recent it is, but it's pretty recent since it has the Heat with the most indicating it was formulated after the Heat opt-outs.

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nba/2014/

Looking at this, Lebron could choose the 76ers, Jazz, Magic, and Pistons. But I don't think anyone expects any of those teams to be legitimately in the mix.
 
Last edited:

overseascardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Posts
8,807
Reaction score
2,096
Location
Phoenix
My hope is that if PHX can land Lebron (and that is still a log shot) I hope they sign Gasol on a 1 year deal for what he is asking $10M - 12M. That way next year he comes off the books and PHX can make a max offer to Love. Again this is all a pipe dream.

Plumlee
Gasol
LBJ
Dragic
Bledsoe

Ennis
Goodwin
Green
Warren
Morris x 2
Len
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
I think Lebron stays in Miami. IMO, this is all theater to make the league office wink at all the doings down there. However, if Lebron were to leave Miami, I think the Suns would be behind Chicago and Houston. Lebron knows what he wants to do. He has had enough time to think about.

The number just don't work for Miami. There is no amount of magic that put together a championship team there. I know the conspiracy theories are popular but at some point they just run into the facts.

If LeBron signs with LeBron, he is putting team and teammate loyalty over winning. If he does that, respect.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,169
Reaction score
58,469
The number just don't work for Miami. There is no amount of magic that put together a championship team there. I know the conspiracy theories are popular but at some point they just run into the facts.

If LeBron signs with LeBron, he is putting team and teammate loyalty over winning. If he does that, respect.

So why does Bosh, but especially Wade take pay cuts if not for Lebron to stay there. Wade left a lot of money on the table. I don't believe this strategy just happened no matter how how inept the Heat or their players want us to believe. IMO, the league office started asking questions.
 
Last edited:

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
So why does Bosh, but especially Wade take pay cuts if not for Lebron to stay there. Wade left a lot of money on the table. I don't believe this strategy just happened no matter how how inept the Heat or their players want us to believe. IMO, the league office started asking questions and now they have to pretend no agreement was reached prior to July 1st.

Who cares if the league office asked questions? They are players, they can do what they want and the league can do nothing about it. As long as Riley was not involved, they can make whatever plan they want whenever they want. Bosh and Wade are desperate, especially Wade. He can't go anywhere. They probably also think they can win it with the three of them. They are trying to find a way to keep LeBron.

It is what it is.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,169
Reaction score
58,469
Who cares if the league office asked questions? They are players, they can do what they want and the league can do nothing about it. As long as Riley was not involved, they can make whatever plan they want whenever they want. Bosh and Wade are desperate, especially Wade. He can't go anywhere. They probably also think they can win it with the three of them. They are trying to find a way to keep LeBron.

It is what it is.

So am I believe the Heat or the involved players were clueless? Lebron, Bosh and Wade had to be fully aware of the game ($$$) they were playing.

Only my opinion, but they are still white washing the fence down there.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
So why does Bosh, but especially Wade take pay cuts if not for Lebron to stay there. Wade left a lot of money on the table. I don't believe this strategy just happened no matter how how inept the Heat or their players want us to believe. IMO, the league office started asking questions.

If the stuff in these articles is true, it's because they felt he was going to leave.

Their last ditch hope of getting him to return is if they also opted out so they could take a pay cut. So Lebron put the press on them masterfully without telling them directly to take a pay cut.

Their response was, we'll take a pay cut, but how much, who knows.

If Lebron leaves, whoever stays on Miami is in for a rough time.

Wade probably knows he doesn't have enough time in the NBA left to go through a rebuilding process, and might even be traded at some point to a team he may not entirely want to go to.

Opting out gives him options. Gives him the option to remain in Miami with James. It gives him the option to leave to a better situation for his final few years, even at a discount, which everything besides money would be better, and yet it also gives him the option of recouping it or perhaps even getting more if Lebron leaves and he somehow wants to stay....even giving Miami the chance to attempt to sign other guys.

Bosh knows he can get what he got, he's not risking anything, unless he gets critically injured in the offseason before signing somewhere. He too knows that opting out gives them the best shot to keep James, and if James leaves, he can go elsewhere and get that max or near max contract. Also it leaves him the possibility to sign wherever James goes.

The main point of all of it is timing. Chicken and egg. They can't get Lebron back whatsoever if they don't take pay cuts. Only if they take pay cuts do they even have a shot. Maybe it backfires, but it's the only way to keep the three together. That's why they do it. Because there was no other way. Meanwhile if it backfires, like I mention above, they have options. They had to opt out before free agency, and Lebron wasn't making his decision until after the deadline. High stakes poker and Lebron got Wade and Bosh to blink.

Lebron didn't opt out before everyone else, and definitely apart from everyone else without a coordinated plan, only so he could return as a max player which he could of gotten without an opt out. The opt out thus MUST be about something else other then money.

It's about being on a team with more of a future then the Heat currently have. Maybe that's with the Heat, most likely somewhere else. But looking at the Heat's options, their options are dwindling.


The one thing in life that screws up projections is that when thinking logically you also have to take into account the step by step process. Because that in of itself can and seems to have completely changed the equation for Wade and Bosh.

The problem we see right now is, even if they take pay cuts, it won't be enough (at least not likely) to get much help given the salaries some players are getting, and worse yet, even if somehow they had enough, many of the names bandied around have already agreed to sign elsewhere.
 
Last edited:

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,480
Reaction score
68,742
So am I believe the Heat or the involved players were clueless? Lebron, Bosh and Wade had to be fully aware of the game ($$$) they were playing.

Only my opinion, but they are still white washing the fence down there.

waiving the white flag of what? taking pay cuts isn't against the rules. Duncan and KG took huge paycuts to allow their teams to get better around them. Was it a game when Duncan and KG were doing it? The only game would be if they were taking pay-cuts but were being paid under the table. Is that what you think is actually going on and is illegal?
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,495
Reaction score
9,716
Location
L.A. area
Lebron didn't opt out before everyone else, and definitely apart from everyone else without a coordinated plan, only so he could return as a max player which he could of gotten without an opt out. The opt out thus MUST be about something else other then money.

Even though you helpfully put this in bold, it's incorrect. James can get a bigger contract, and a bigger starting salary, by opting out than he could have by staying. If his goal is to make as much money as possible -- note the use of "if" -- then opting out was the right move.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
Even though you helpfully put this in bold, it's incorrect. James can get a bigger contract, and a bigger starting salary, by opting out than he could have by staying. If his goal is to make as much money as possible -- note the use of "if" -- then opting out was the right move.

No problem, my bad. I jumped the gun in my thinking on that aspect. Focusing too much on the other stuff I let that one slip right through idiotically. He opted out and thus he can recoup what he gave away to sign with the big three, and doesn't years of service come into play, so that a player with 10 years of NBA service or something like that has a higher base level possible compared to one with less.

My feeling is that he opted out so he could be on a better team overall, whether the Heat or someone else, and while he's a free agent, he is going to ask for the max this time. This means the Heat have to acquire the talent out of everyone else's salary and then re-sign him with the difference between his old and new contract pushing them above the cap.

I guess it could of been about money, but given the situation we've seen unfolding I highly doubt it's the money.
 
Last edited:

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,495
Reaction score
9,716
Location
L.A. area
He opted out and thus he can recoup what he gave away to sign with the big three, and doesn't years of service come into play, so that a player with 10 years of NBA service or something like that has a higher base level possible compared to one with less.

Something like that. I can never remember the details, but they're on Coon's site.

My feeling is that he opted out so he could be on a better team overall, whether the Heat or someone else, and while he's a free agent, he is going to ask for the max this time.

Maybe. I think it's because he feels like he has already done his share in trying to be cooperative financially, but Heat ownership hasn't, because they managed costs enough to avoid being multi-repeat luxury-tax offenders. So James's attitude is, "If I'm going to play for less, it's to help build the best possible team, not so that Micky Arison can get some titles at a discount."
 
Last edited:

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,169
Reaction score
58,469
Who cares if the league office asked questions? They are players, they can do what they want and the league can do nothing about it. As long as Riley was not involved, they can make whatever plan they want whenever they want. Bosh and Wade are desperate, especially Wade. He can't go anywhere. They probably also think they can win it with the three of them. They are trying to find a way to keep LeBron.

It is what it is.

The problem I have in this whole scenario in Miami with the players deciding to opt out, I can't buy there is desperation. These are smart players with agents. With Lebron, Wade and Bosh opting out, there must have been a plan prior to free agency as to how this all would play out in free agency. There has to be a reason they are not ready to pop the cork on the Champagne. I don't buy the original plan has changed. IMO, there must be something more going on. I just don't see Lebron dumping Wade and Bosh. This is why I question that some piece of the puzzle is missing and I don't mean signing another player. Something has slowed down this train if it is not theater.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
\

Maybe. I think it's because he feels like he has already done his share in trying to be cooperative financially, but Heat ownership hasn't, because they managed costs enough to avoid being multi-repeat luxury-tax offenders. So James's attitude is, "If I'm going to play for less, it's to help build the best possible team, not so that Micky Arison can get some titles at a discount."

I agree with that as a motivation too, mentioned it before... The reports were Lebron was irked with the Miller trade to avoid the luxury tax.




Looks like Bulls amnestied Boozer, and Lowry staying in Toronto with a 4 year deal.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/2844...ime-with-bulls-all-but-over.html#.U7TCzfldXD4

As for Lowry

http://espn.go.com/nba/thetensquared

Also on there (further down/next page) they state it seems Melo was very receptive to Houston, so my guess is they are the favorite for Melo...but maybe with the amnesty the Bulls can up their offer.

In any case, take another name off Miami's potential wishlist with Lowry gone.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
118,169
Reaction score
58,469
I wonder if Lowry agreeing to sign a 4 year, 48 million dollar contract with Toronto, might it be a template for Bledsoe's contract.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
I agree with that as a motivation too, mentioned it before... The reports were Lebron was irked with the Miller trade to avoid the luxury tax.

This was horrible. You don't make a cheap cost cutting move like this after you win the title.


Looks like Bulls amnestied Boozer, and Lowry staying in Toronto with a 4 year deal.

I'd love to pick up Boozer for the right price.
 
OP
OP
sunsfan88

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
Am I the only one who think the Raptors got a steal for signing Lowry at just $12M?

Is Lowry only $4M/yr better than Avery Bradley?

Lowry deal allows us to set $12M as the highest we'll go for EB since while Bledsoe is younger and better defensively, he's also prone to injuries and missing games than Lowry.
 
OP
OP
sunsfan88

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
This was horrible. You don't make a cheap cost cutting move like this after you win the title.

Mavs did just that with Tyson Chandler and JJ Barea after they were key in Dallas winning it's first ever title.

Mark Cuban didn't ever face much criticism for it though.

Imagine the ridicule if someone like Sarver had done that.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,480
Reaction score
68,742
so, Lowry and Gortat are officially off the market? Good. The sooner someone nabs Gasol/Deng, the sooner Bron realizes he's SOL in Miami.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
Mavs did just that with Tyson Chandler and JJ Barea after they were key in Dallas winning it's first ever title.

Mark Cuban didn't ever face much criticism for it though.

Imagine the ridicule if someone like Sarver had done that.

A lot of people were pissed about Chandler but wasn't he a free agent? Too lazy to look it up.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
Ahh now I remember what I meant about Lebron opting out. It's that with Lebron opting out, he could try to force a raise, but it wasn't necessary for Bosh and Wade to opt out in order for Lebron to get his max salary.

It would force the Heat to maybe be tax payers, or something like that, but the reason Wade and Bosh opted out was because they felt it was more then just $$$.

Lebron wants to get better and while he's at it, make more money.

Wade and Bosh felt this to be true, and given the NBA's process of it all, needed to opt out before any of it be resolved, lest they risk remaining contractually obligated to the Heat without Miami, and this wouldn't be a good situation for all the reasons discussed earlier.

When push came to shove, they want to win, and if it doesn't work out, they have more options being free agents. But they had to make their decision before anyone else, and thus did.
 
OP
OP
sunsfan88

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
A lot of people were pissed about Chandler but wasn't he a free agent? Too lazy to look it up.

He was but it makes sense to keep considering its not like he was really old and that he was their defensive anchor.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
553,998
Posts
5,413,078
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top