2014 Suns Free Agency

[AzStevenCal]

It must really suck to be a Suns fan for you. I fail to see why you and some others here bother? Is this really entertaining for you? I'm not trying to be an ass, I probably am, but it isn't my intent. I honestly don't understand what fans such as yourself get out of it? I don't think of you as some that criticize everything the front office does and see themselves as a superior mind while having close to zero information on why moves are made, so that's why I ask. You seem unhappy with everything this team does, so why do you spend so much of your time thinking about them? You are more than welcome to tell me to go chase headlights, but I think it's a valid question.

I think you're going to burn yourself out here. Which is too bad because your return to this board has been a good thing. I understand the frustration. I have to take regular breaks from this forum to survive the pervasive negativity that we're subjected to by fellow "fans".

I hesitate to be too positive on this forum. If there's too much hope in the air, there is a small but very dedicated group of "Suns fans" here that feel it is their responsibility to bring us back down to earth. They are the only ones that truly understand critical thinking and without them, all us sheep-like Suns fans would wander happily along, completely unaware of how miserable we really should be feeling. I don't want to be completely miserable so I restrain myself when I realize I'm leaning too far to the bright side. If you stay closer to neutral, they are less likely to pounce.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

It must really suck to be a Suns fan for you. I fail to see why you and some others here bother? Is this really entertaining for you? I'm not trying to be an ass, I probably am, but it isn't my intent. I honestly don't understand what fans such as yourself get out of it? I don't think of you as some that criticize everything the front office does and see themselves as a superior mind while having close to zero information on why moves are made, so that's why I ask. You seem unhappy with everything this team does, so why do you spend so much of your time thinking about them? You are more than welcome to tell me to go chase headlights, but I think it's a valid question.

That's a pretty heavy handed and judgmental post and I think it has to do with your personal point of view. I see plenty of elindholm posts that are not negative and engagements in meaningful conversation.

I appreciate posters like elindholm and Cheesebeef for example who call it like it is and are not afraid to pull punches. More so than some of the apologists and staunch defenders who feel the team should be treated with kid gloves every time they do something right. However, that is based on MY OWN point of view and being frustrated with an 0-41 record when it comes to titles. That's where I come from. I know I annoy folks and seem overly negative but if you go back far enough....I was a rah rah rah guy too at one time (way way back...LOL) and kind of wish I still was. I am just over it. I freaking love this team and have spent thousands of dollars backing it over my life time and will continue to do so regardless of my frustration. I love this community.

Then again...I am sure you group me in with the negative crowd when it comes to this franchise. Again..your point of view and your entitled to your opinion. I can at least respect that. There are people on here that I regularly disagree with but I would gladly sit down, have a beer and enjoy a game with any of them. I remind myself of that all the time even when we disagree. We need both types on this board IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

"Assets."

Gambo's been wrong about almost everything this off-season. Even the draft. Despite the commercials, he only knew draft picks seconds before they were actually made.

He ripped on the IT signing, saying "I have no idea what the Suns are doing." I think it wasn't so much about IT as it was that he did not know before it happened.

He must have been cut off.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think you're going to burn yourself out here. Which is too bad because your return to this board has been a good thing. I understand the frustration. I have to take regular breaks from this forum to survive the pervasive negativity that we're subjected to by fellow "fans".

I hesitate to be too positive on this forum. If there's too much hope in the air, there is a small but very dedicated group of "Suns fans" here that feel it is their responsibility to bring us back down to earth. They are the only ones that truly understand critical thinking and without them, all us sheep-like Suns fans would wander happily along, completely unaware of how miserable we really should be feeling. I don't want to be completely miserable so I restrain myself when I realize I'm leaning too far to the bright side. If you stay closer to neutral, they are less likely to pounce.

Steve

Great take Steve.

 

[3rdside]

I struggle with the negativity considering it's been one (1) season of massive over-achievement under RMcD.

 

[KloD]

I think you're going to burn yourself out here. Which is too bad because your return to this board has been a good thing. I understand the frustration. I have to take regular breaks from this forum to survive the pervasive negativity that we're subjected to by fellow "fans".

I hesitate to be too positive on this forum. If there's too much hope in the air, there is a small but very dedicated group of "Suns fans" here that feel it is their responsibility to bring us back down to earth. They are the only ones that truly understand critical thinking and without them, all us sheep-like Suns fans would wander happily along, completely unaware of how miserable we really should be feeling. I don't want to be completely miserable so I restrain myself when I realize I'm leaning too far to the bright side. If you stay closer to neutral, they are less likely to pounce.

Steve

You are correct. I do get burned out on this board and than I disappear for a while. I really like it here and like the discussions for the most part. I don't see myself as a "homer". I don't like everything they do, not even close, but I don't spend a lot of energy bitching and moaning about things in general. I suppose I try to look at the decisions made with an understanding that I do not have close to enough information to rationally judge the decisions they make. To be so critical all the time and especially of the people that make the decisions comes across as just very wrong and bordering on offensive to me. I'll try to ignore the constant complaints because I feel there are some great conversations that take place here. Thanks for grounding me a bit and for the compliment.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are correct. I do get burned out on this board and than I disappear for a while. I really like it here and like the discussions for the most part. I don't see myself as a "homer". I don't like everything they do, not even close, but I don't spend a lot of energy bitching and moaning about things in general. I suppose I try to look at the decisions made with an understanding that I do not have close to enough information to rationally judge the decisions they make. To be so critical all the time and especially of the people that make the decisions comes across as just very wrong and bordering on offensive to me. I'll try to ignore the constant complaints because I feel there are some great conversations that take place here. Thanks for grounding me a bit and for the compliment.

I have a problem with this often too. I realize that they have just as much right to be negative as we do to be positive but it really does hurt a little when they try to tear down something or someone we care about. They don't seem to understand the difference, to them they are doing nothing more than offering their opinion. But it's a bit like telling someone they have an ugly baby. Whether you're right or not, the family hates to hear it.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I have a problem with this often too. I realize that they have just as much right to be negative as we do to be positive but it really does hurt a little when they try to tear down something or someone we care about. They don't seem to understand the difference, to them they are doing nothing more than offering their opinion. But it's a bit like telling someone they have an ugly baby. Whether you're right or not, the family hates to hear it.

Steve

To be fair, I have never told someone their baby is ugly even while fighting back regurgitation.

 

[KloD]

That's a pretty heavy handed and judgmental post and I think it has to do with your personal point of view. I see plenty of elindholm posts that are not negative and engagements in meaningful conversation.

It wasn't meant to be "heavy handed" and I feel I was clear about that, or at the least clear in my attempt not to be while still asking an honest and valid question. I like elindholm and believe him to be not only a core of this board, but one of the better members. I have zero negative feelings toward him, I just don't understand the constant negativity.

I appreciate posters like elindholm and Cheesebeef for example who call it like it is and are not afraid to pull punches.

As do I. Although I detest the term "call/tell it like it is". They and others are sharing their perspective, which does not equate to that opinion being any more valid or "real" than those who disagree with them. Judging something harshly does not add validity.

More so than some of the apologists and staunch defenders who feel the team should be treated with kid gloves every time they do something right. However, that is based on MY OWN point of view and being frustrated with an 0-41 record when it comes to titles. That's where I come from. I know I annoy folks and seem overly negative but if you go back far enough....I was a rah rah rah guy too at one time (way way back...LOL) and kind of wish I still was. I am just over it. I freaking love this team and have spent thousands of dollars backing it over my life time and will continue to do so regardless of my frustration. I love this community.

I've been here on and off for a number of years and I honestly have seen very little homerism, especially from the long standing members. I think we're all emotionally invested or we wouldn't be on this board discussing this team year round. I don't believe I or others are any less frustrated at the lake of a championship. It's not the frustration that gets to me. It's the constant complaining about most everything this team does. From the signings, drafting, style of play, distribution of playing time, ect. It's constant from some and while we all have and are welcome to our opinions, I fail to understand what, if any pleasure they get out it and the team.

Then again...I am sure you group me in with the negative crowd when it comes to this franchise. Again..your point of view and your entitled to your opinion. I can at least respect that. There are people on here that I regularly disagree with but I would gladly sit down, have a beer and enjoy a game with any of them. I remind myself of that all the time even when we disagree. We need both types on this board IMO.

I honestly haven't gone so far as to "group' anyone, not really something I'm interested in. My only opinion of you is I think your repeated claim about Sarver is irrational and used far too often. For example, one could claim Arizona's political reputation is the reason the Suns haven't landed a Franchise guy and based on a lack of knowledge of what each guy is basing their decisions on, have the same validity in their argument as you've given for yours with their not coming here because of Sarver.

I've just noticed the past few weeks a few around here seem to like very little about the Phoenix Suns, from the ownership, management, team members, style of play, ect. Other than the team name, I don't understand why they see themselves a fan of the team?

I respect most everyone here. Only the trolls who are rude to others just to be rude, I like everyone as much as one can on a message board. I have no issue with disagreeing, i enjoy a spat with Cheese as much as the next guy. I only asked the question (and I admit it's not my place) because I was hoping for an honest answer to fulfill my curiosity.

 

[Covert Rain]

It wasn't meant to be "heavy handed" and I feel I was clear about that, or at the least clear in my attempt not to be while still asking an honest and valid question. I like elindholm and believe him to be not only a core of this board, but one of the better members. I have zero negative feelings toward him, I just don't understand the constant negativity.

This came off as pretty clear to me:

It must really suck to be a Suns fan for you. I fail to see why you and some others here bother?

Besides, that appears to be a bit of cherry picking. I mean there are a bunch of threads here and people joke around, have fun, ask questions and such. Much like anything else in life...I think people remember the bad stuff and don't recall much of the everyday good stuff. I think the only people I have ever said anything like the above are the trolls like GreensborougHill (I think that was his name) and some of his ilk. Although as you stated maybe that's not what you meant.

As do I. Although I detest the term "call/tell it like it is". They and others are sharing their perspective, which does not equate to that opinion being any more valid or "real" than those who disagree with them. Judging something harshly does not add validity.

That's a generalization. Sure, MOST of what people post here is opinion. However, to be fair there is a bunch of stuff people complain about here like bad trades, giving away draft picks and obvious things that can hardly be chalked up to pure opinion. Although I do understand your point.

I've been here on and off for a number of years and I honestly have seen very little homerism, especially from the long standing members.

I will stop you there. That has been a plenty of homerism (see every time someone over evaluates the value of our players) but like Steve pointed out that is not a bad thing. I think the board benefits from having people on both ends of the spectrum and the middle.

I honestly haven't gone so far as to "group' anyone, not really something I'm interested in. My only opinion of you is I think your repeated claim about Sarver is irrational and used far too often. For example, one could claim Arizona's political reputation is the reason the Suns haven't landed a Franchise guy and based on a lack of knowledge of what each guy is basing their decisions on, have the same validity in their argument as you've given for yours with their not coming here because of Sarver.

Well your entitled to that opinion and I completely understand how that can be annoying to some. However, it's not irrational. You can't name one instance where I started a thread just to randomly call out Sarver. I don't for example when someone talks about the Suns uniforms....post out of context and say "wow that Sarver really sucks at pulling off trades." THAT is irrational. IMO, I bring it up when it's relative to the discussion. Irrational would be calling it out randomly when it has no bearing on the discussion. Again....it might be 100% annoying to keep seeing the same point over and over again but it doesn't make it any less relevant or irrational. Annoying? OK.

I won't bother with the red stuff because it's a complete tangent and a terrible analogy for the reasons I posted above.

I've just noticed the past few weeks a few around here seem to like very little about the Phoenix Suns, from the ownership, management, team members, style of play, ect. Other than the team name, I don't understand why they see themselves a fan of the team?

That to me is the crux of the problem. I know many of the posters here are tired of the status quo. Tired of the repeated misfires. They are fans and completely entitled to have a less rah rah attitude, vent frustration and expect the team to finally get over that hump. That doesn't make them any less a fan than you because they don't have a rah rah attitude. I think we all want the same thing.

 

[Chaplin]

I struggle with the negativity considering it's been one (1) season of massive over-achievement under RMcD.

"Massive over-achievement"? Really? I hate that term, it implies that we shouldn't have been that good. Of course, there's nothing to base that on...

 

[Covert Rain]

"Massive over-achievement"? Really? I hate that term, it implies that we shouldn't have been that good. Of course, there's nothing to base that on...

Curious Chap. Don't you think the jury is still out? We have seen hot young teams do something one year and never again plenty of times. I am not ready to call them overachievers either by the way but I am seriously excited to see how the team plays this season out of the gate. Will it be more of the "fade" we had seen at the end of the season or will it be more like the start of last season?

Honestly..that is something I am actually really excited about because I think it will paint a better picture of our young talent.

 

[AzStevenCal]

"Massive over-achievement"? Really? I hate that term, it implies that we shouldn't have been that good. Of course, there's nothing to base that on...

I'd agree if the poster was suggesting we didn't deserve our record but I don't think that's the case. The experts and almost all of the fans expected us to have a far worse record than we did. From the standpoint of expectations, we massively overachieved. As far as I'm concerned, that's nothing but a compliment to the players, the team and the organization. Now that we know what Markieff, Goran, Eric, Plumlee, Green and even Tucker are individually capable of, we'll have higher expectations.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

I struggle with the negativity considering it's been one (1) season of massive over-achievement under RMcD.

Its kind of hard to understand after the huge improvement they made last year.

"Haters, they gonna hate."

 

[Chaplin]

I'd agree if the poster was suggesting we didn't deserve our record but I don't think that's the case. The experts and almost all of the fans expected us to have a far worse record than we did. From the standpoint of expectations, we massively overachieved. As far as I'm concerned, that's nothing but a compliment to the players, the team and the organization. Now that we know what Markieff, Goran, Eric, Plumlee, Green and even Tucker are individually capable of, we'll have higher expectations.

Steve

Maybe it's just semantics. "Over-Achievement" to me sounds like an insult--an achievement that should not and in normal circumstances would not be normal. We don't know, this could be our new normal.

 

[KloD]

This came off as pretty clear to me:

Besides, that appears to be a bit of cherry picking. I mean there are a bunch of threads here and people joke around, have fun, ask questions and such. Much like anything else in life...I think people remember the bad stuff and don't recall much of the everyday good stuff. I think the only people I have ever said anything like the above are the trolls like GreensborougHill (I think that was his name) and some of his ilk. Although as you stated maybe that's not what you meant.

Again, I think I was very clear as to my intent and to what I meant. In fact, the question was never posed to you. You chose to imbed yourself in the subject. That is fair of course, but I made a statement baed on my perception and you took it as my making a negative or unfair judgement. So I'm to accept that others are allowed to negatively judge everything to do with the Suns, including the intelligence of the decision makers but I'm am forbid to ask someone why they consider themselves a fan of something they have such negative feelings toward? Seems a bit oversensitive IMO. According to what I'm hearing, It's ok to throw stones, but how dare I question the stone throwers. Sorry, but those are not terms I will agree to.

That's a generalization. Sure, MOST of what people post here is opinion. However, to be fair there is a bunch of stuff people complain about here like bad trades, giving away draft picks and obvious things that can hardly be chalked up to pure opinion. Although I do understand your point.

It's not a generalization. You said, "they call it like it is". That implies to me that what they say is truth, therefore that says to me it isn't an opinion, it's fact. It isn't fact, it's opinion. Whether a trade is good or whether giving away a draft pick is bad is an opinion.

I will stop you there. That has been a plenty of homerism (see every time someone over evaluates the value of our players) but like Steve pointed out that is not a bad thing. I think the board benefits from having people on both ends of the spectrum and the middle.

You'll stop me there? So again, I'm to accept all the negative opinions, but how dare I share an opinion of my own. Clearly what you and I refer to as homerism is not the same. I see people overvaluing players for all teams, not just the one they call their own.

Well your entitled to that opinion and I completely understand how that can be annoying to some. However, it's not irrational. You can't name one instance where I started a thread just to randomly call out Sarver. I don't for example when someone talks about the Suns uniforms....post out of context and say "wow that Sarver really sucks at pulling off trades." THAT is irrational. IMO, I bring it up when it's relative to the discussion. Irrational would be calling it out randomly when it has no bearing on the discussion. Again....it might be 100% annoying to keep seeing the same point over and over again but it doesn't make it any less relevant or irrational. Annoying? OK.

That is not even close to what irrational means. I won't argue with you over this because what you just wrote does not make any sense with regards to what I said.

I won't bother with the red stuff because it's a complete tangent and a terrible analogy for the reasons I posted above.

Apparently we do not share the same understanding of what irrational means. That, and my analogy is not a tangent and is a claim someone can make which shares the same lack of knowledge to why someone will sign with the Suns or not. It's based on opinion, not fact, just as your argument is.

That to me is the crux of the problem. I know many of the posters here are tired of the status quo. Tired of the repeated misfires. They are fans and completely entitled to have a less rah rah attitude, vent frustration and expect the team to finally get over that hump. That doesn't make them any less fans than you because they don't have a rah rah attitude.

Ok, this is ridiculous. I in no way claimed to be a "better" fan than anyone else.
You're in left field friend and have twisted this into something it isn't. I'm done.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you're going to burn yourself out here. Which is too bad because your return to this board has been a good thing. I understand the frustration. I have to take regular breaks from this forum to survive the pervasive negativity that we're subjected to by fellow "fans".

I hesitate to be too positive on this forum. If there's too much hope in the air, there is a small but very dedicated group of "Suns fans" here that feel it is their responsibility to bring us back down to earth. They are the only ones that truly understand critical thinking and without them, all us sheep-like Suns fans would wander happily along, completely unaware of how miserable we really should be feeling. I don't want to be completely miserable so I restrain myself when I realize I'm leaning too far to the bright side. If you stay closer to neutral, they are less likely to pounce.

Steve

Good post, and I am aware I tend to be a pouncer. Granted my overall feelings on the team the last year have been very positive, there are certain subjects I should probably let slide, rather than take a dump every time they cross my path. With the current roster thats only Len.

 

[Covert Rain]

Again, I think I was very clear as to my intent and to what I meant. In fact, the question was never posed to you. You chose to imbed yourself in the subject. That is fair of course, but I made a statement baed on my perception and you took it as my making a negative or unfair judgement.

I will leave it to others to intepret your exact words. By the way, you didn't ask Steve the question either. However, I felt you were singling out people on the board and so I responded. I never suggested it was directed at me but an attack on some of the veteran posters here. If that was NOT the case. Fair enough. You clarified.

So I'm to accept that others are allowed to negatively judge everything to do with the Suns, including the intelligence of the decision makers but I'm am forbid to ask someone why they consider themselves a fan of something they have such negative feelings toward? Seems a bit oversensitive IMO. According to what I'm hearing, It's ok to throw stones, but how dare I question the stone throwers. Sorry, but those are not terms I will agree to.

Nothing is forbidden at the end of the day if it's not against forum rules. So, no that's not what you are hearing. Calling into question or discussing the team is different than questioning why a fan should basically bother being a fan at all. Sorry if you don't see the difference. At the end of the day...you are entitled to ask or say what you want. Nobody is suggesting otherwise and nobody is saying you can't ask the question. Just like it's OK to repeat points if it's related to the topic at hand.

It's not a generalization. You said, "they call it like it is". That implies to me that what they say is truth, therefore that says to me it isn't an opinion, it's fact. It isn't fact, it's opinion. Whether a trade is good or whether giving away a draft pick is bad is an opinion.

It is because you are suggesting that all complaints are opinion which is simply not the truth. For example, if we are on the short end of a trade and I complain that we got less in return...that is not opinion. If we made a bad draft pick that gets cut and I say that ended up being a horrible pick...that is not opinion. So..yes...it's a generalization. However, as I stated I understood the point you were trying to make.

You'll stop me there? So again, I'm to accept all the negative opinions, but how dare I share an opinion of my own. Clearly what you and I refer to as homerism is not the same. I see people overvaluing players for all teams, not just the one they call their own.

Where did I say that? I never said anything about you sharing your opinion. I was stopping you there (an expression) because I have seen it. I am using the definition of Homerism not my own. Homerism = having a bias toward your hometown team.

Anytime you hold a more favorable opinion of your own team's talents versus what is generally accepted or value of those players more than the market that is just a couple examples. We see suggested outlandish trades (happens here ALL THE TIME), that is the very definition of homerism. Go back and check all the trade threads and posters reactions. Don't take my word for it.

That is not even close to what irrational means. I won't argue with you over this because what you just wrote does not make any sense with regards to what I said.

Apparently we do not share the same understanding of what irrational means. That, and my analogy is not a tangent and is a claim someone can make which shares the same lack of knowledge to why someone will sign with the Suns or not. It's based on opinion, not fact, just as your argument is.

Really? Now who is being irrational? Irrational thinking is forming opinions without reason or sign of cognitive thinking. My example was perfect in demonstrating what an irrational post would be. In other words, making a post without reason and/or not related to the topic at hand. Simply repeating a point is not irrational...again...although annoying.

Ok, this is ridiculous. I in no way claimed to be a "better" fan than anyone else.
You're in left field friend and have twisted this into something it isn't. I'm done.

Maybe this time I was unclear and apologize. That's not what I meant and I wasn't accusing you of thinking you were a better fan. Only that one's attitude (more negative or positive) doesn't dictate their commitment to the team or how big a fan they are.

Anyway this is. I apologize to the community.

 

[mojorizen7]

Just try to be tolerant with one another folks.

Hell i'm a bottom-outer according to Cheesebeef(and he would be correct)
but i'm trying to get back on board. I haven't liked the Suns' style for what seems like a decade...but i'm trying to believe that the men in charge have seen the light, and realize what needs to be done to give this team the best chance to redeem 0-46. I have very strong beliefs on how to get there. If nothing changes i'll quietly exit the building and go watch the NFL.

When i read vastly differing opinions from my own here, i simply leave it alone and move on. It's the right thing to do IMO...but don't pizz in my cereal either just because you think i'm a negative Nancy. Deal with it. It's not personal. I've invested as much heart and soul as the next guy over the last 30 years.

 

[3rdside]

Maybe it's just semantics. "Over-Achievement" to me sounds like an insult--an achievement that should not and in normal circumstances would not be normal. We don't know, this could be our new normal.

This one is not semantics, it's black and white - not one person on the board predicted how good we'd be, not one. So looking at where we actually finished versus where people predicted we'd finish, it's a massive over achievement.

You raise an interesting point though - and funnily enough one that could ease some of the negativity some more - and that is this:

Is it possible that considering what talent RMcD brought on board last year (particularly Bledsoe, Green, Plumee) it was a 'normal' number of wins? If that's the case then maybe RMcD has a real skill in identifying under priced players that fit his system and then trading 'less for more'.

And if this is a real competitive advantage of his then he should be able to continue to find under priced players (Anthony Tolliver anyone?), pump them up over a season or so, then trade them for bigger (ha) and better players in the future.

Obviously there's a lot of if's there so don't take it as gospel, but there's nothing wrong with trying to guess why this team over achieved so much.

 

[Chaplin]

This one is not semantics, it's black and white - not one person on the board predicted how good we'd be, not one. So looking at where we actually finished versus where people predicted we'd finish, it's a massive over achievement.

Could it be that we were simply wrong? Why do we all have to be "right" and the Suns success this year was over-achievement simply because we all thought something different?

You raise an interesting point though - and funnily enough one that could ease some of the negativity some more - and that is this:

Is it possible that considering what talent RMcD brought on board last year (particularly Bledsoe, Green, Plumee) it was a 'normal' number of wins? If that's the case then maybe RMcD has a real skill in identifying under priced players that fit his system and then trading 'less for more'.

And if this is a real competitive advantage of his then he should be able to continue to find under priced players (Anthony Tolliver anyone?), pump them up over a season or so, then trade them for bigger (ha) and better players in the future.

Obviously there's a lot of if's there so don't take it as gospel, but there's nothing wrong with trying to guess why this team over achieved so much.

Again, I don't think it's over achieving because it lessens what they accomplished. But the rest of your point is spot on. I think the best GMs do exactly what you describe here--get lesser priced talent whose play prices them higher and then leverage that to get even better talent.

 

[Covert Rain]

.but don't pizz in my cereal either just because you think i'm a negative Nancy. Deal with it. It's not personal. I've invested as much heart and soul as the next guy over the last 30 years.

 

[3rdside]

Could it be that we were simply wrong? Why do we all have to be "right" and the Suns success this year was over-achievement simply because we all thought something different?

Okay, how about if i phrased it like this:

Ignoring what the suns staff thought (as they are the only people that could possibly have envisioned so many wins - and even that's a stretch because they certainly didn't mention it pre-season, nor did any journalists close to them re-iterate this thought via pre-season W-L predictions ) then they 'massively over-achieved'.

In other words, when results exceed expectation then one has over-achieved.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, how about if i phrased it like this:

Ignoring what the suns staff thought (as they are the only people that could possibly have envisioned so many wins - and even that's a stretch because they certainly didn't mention it pre-season, nor did any journalists close to them re-iterate this thought via pre-season W-L predictions ) then they 'massively over-achieved'.

In other words, when results exceed expectation then one has over-achieved.

So, if they win 33 games this year, will they have under achieved or just achieved according expectations?

Over achieved and under achieved usually means that they played way above their skill level. Usually this is a condition that is only temporary. I believe they played above expectations but did not over achieve.

 

[elindholm]

It must really suck to be a Suns fan for you. I fail to see why you and some others here bother? Is this really entertaining for you?

I watch the Suns a lot less than I used to. But I am still a fan of the league, and the Suns are my team, so it is what it is.

You seem unhappy with everything this team does, so why do you spend so much of your time thinking about them? You are more than welcome to tell me to go chase headlights, but I think it's a valid question.

I (stupidly) feel some connection to some people on this board. I've been posting for a long time. I have a stronger connection to this board than I do to the Suns specifically.