2016 NBA Draft thread

[JCSunsfan]

I know I am repeating myself but I watch the game film of Sabonis and I just want that guy. He plays with Dan Majerle passion. He has an advanced skill set. Has very good foot speed and great strength. He is your classic glue guy, team leader locker room leader type.

He is also a good shooter. His form is good and I have no doubt he can shoot out to the three, he just doesn't do it right now.

 

[sunsfan88]

You all have seen this, I am sure. Ingram can shoot too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMrZyQFEjY

Yea that's great, I think the 76ers, Lakers or Celtics will really enjoy having him.

 

[Catlover]

Brown has slumped a lot more than the top 2 and Bender has shown about as much as Labissiere.

At this point I am ready for Kris Dunn. Even though I have reservations ( not a good shooter right now, high assists but also turnovers, 4yr junior with an injury year ). But Brown is super raw potential, Poetl in my opinion is probably not going to be better than Zubac/Zizic/Zimmermann, Bender is only potential and I am not sure about Murray fitting with Booker. Murray is too much high volume for my taste.

Plus I would love to trade Knight, it is not that he is a bad player, I just can't stand watching him play.

I'd like to trade Knight too, also for style reasons, but until he gets it together and has a good month or two that's probably not happening. We're too far from away from being a contender to need to rush into anything and we can't afford to give away a player that we expected to perform near all star level. I think we'll open next season with him in the starting lineup with an eye to moving him by the break.

 

[slinslin]

Ah screw it even with Skal not showing up I would simply roll the dice on him with our pick due to lack of better options.

I just can't justify drafting Kris Dunn in the top 5 with the weaknesses he still has and turning 23 in his rookie season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ah screw it even with Skal not showing up I would simply roll the dice on him with our pick due to lack of better options.

I just can't justify drafting Kris Dunn in the top 5 with the weaknesses he still has and turning 23 in his rookie season.

I am with you on this. He was considered a potential #1 pick going into the year but struggled early. But he has come on strong lately. You have to pick the player with the most upside and he is it.

Not all that confident it it but I think that is what I would do.

Maybe the tournament will shed more light.

 

[Catlover]

I don't know who I want but I don't want Dunn (or Buddy). I'd trade back if necessary rather than take the players usually mentioned in the 3 - 7 range (unless McD is in love with Bender or someone like him).

I wouldn't mind it if we picked Poeltl, Ellenson, Rabb, Skal, D Davis or any of the 3 Z's but obviously those aren't all candidates for the top 5 pick we'll likely have. So maybe a trade down or even a trade out and grab the best of the remaining big guys with the Washington pick (if we get it) and someone like Payton with the Cleveland pick. I'd far prefer this to adding picks together to move up into the top 2.

I just don't feel great about Simmons or Ingram (or Brown even). If this was a deep draft at the top like it often is those guys would fall several spots and a team would be thrilled to take that kind of gamble at the 9 spot. But it's risky to put any of them under the spotlight as a 1 or 2. If I had to do it though, at this point I'd reluctantly go with Ingram.

 

[slinslin]

We should obviously to try to trade up from #4 to #2 if that is how it turns out.

But really Dunn should be someone to consider picking at #12. I don't see how he is a top 5 pick when Hield and Valentine are not. Dunn is basically a senior and made little to no improvement from last year to this year.

I think Ivan Rabb can have a great tournament and really move up in the draft.

I would compare Ivan Rabb to PJ Brown, but that being said PJ Brown is always the "standard" PF I compare prospects too that have size and some touch yet no 3pt touch.

I like Jaylen Brown, but he is struggling more than he should. That said he seems to be a great character kid. He is not partying and he has not even given an interview at California so far.
Despite the recent struggles he would be my choice at #3.

In mid-December, between practices and games, Cal’s most recognizable freshman wrote a 20-page paper for a graduate-level course.

The assignment was complex: Weave class readings into a narrative on how institutionalized sports impact America’s education system. Jaylen Brown pulled from his own experience as a blue-chip basketball recruit. He argued that society pushes athletically inclined children toward sports, often at the expense of their intellectual development.

“The stuff I learned in that class I’ll probably take with me for the rest of my life,” Brown said.

...

On free Saturday afternoons, Brown challenges old-timers to chess at a Bohemian cafe in Berkeley. Some of his closest friends at Cal aren’t athletes. All season, Brown has declined one-on-one interview requests.

...

In middle school, Brown was captain of the chess team. He was active in Habitat for Humanity and Men and Women of Distinction, another community service organization, at Wheeler High School in Marietta, Ga.

When all-star events took him abroad in recent years, Brown tried to learn the local language. He likes to meditate and practice hot yoga. When choosing between an FC Barcelona match or Atlanta Hawks game on TV, he clicks to his favorite La Liga team every time.

...

“In everything he’s trying to do, he wants to master it,” Bears associate head coach Tracy Webster said. “Everybody can play basketball, but he wants more than that.”

...

Exams and papers, including that 20-page narrative for Van Rheenen’s class, wore on Brown. Come tipoff, he had difficulty concentrating.

“Berkeley requires a lot from you, so you definitely have to find a balance,” Brown said. “It definitely took me an adjustment phase.”

However you could see these things as negatives too:
-introvert
-many interests besides basketball

 

[slinslin]

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-b...prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

This piece by Jonathan Givony, the guy who runs draftexpress, is pretty damning about Simmons. Makes him really sound more like Michael Beasley in a lot of ways.

The part about only passing when he is guaranteed an assist is something I noticed about Simmons also. I often saw him just standing 3 feet behind the 3pt line holding the ball for 5-10 seconds and waiting to hit a player getting open.

He is excellent when he gets the opportunity to run but in the halfcourt he is a major project I guess.

Simmons is a few months older than Booker, can't get a 2.0GPA in classes rigged for athletes, gets embarassed by Texas AM..

Yeah I would bet on Ingram at #1 at this point. He seems to be so much safer and it is easy to project Ingram having a great career.

 

[Catlover]

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-b...prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

This piece by Jonathan Givony, the guy who runs draftexpress, is pretty damning about Simmons. Makes him really sound more like Michael Beasley in a lot of ways.

The part about only passing when he is guaranteed an assist is something I noticed about Simmons also. I often saw him just standing 3 feet behind the 3pt line holding the ball for 5-10 seconds and waiting to hit a player getting open.

He is excellent when he gets the opportunity to run but in the halfcourt he is a major project I guess.

Simmons is a few months older than Booker, can't get a 2.0GPA in classes rigged for athletes, gets embarassed by Texas AM..

Yeah I would bet on Ingram at #1 at this point. He seems to be so much safer and it is easy to project Ingram having a great career.

Yeah I just wouldn't invest in Simmons, too many things not to like. And there's something really suspicious in the way his coach ended his LSU career. That was highly unusual, bowing out of all post season play. It's happened before but not like this and not with a school that isn't an NCAA tourney fixture.

I don't like the idea of trading up in this draft unless the price is small. And it's never small. I think there are a lot of good players in this class but I don't see the separation between the top and the next tier that we usually see.

Brown sounds like a great young man but like you I have no idea if those qualities are positives or negatives as far as his basketball career goes. Still, I'd prefer someone like him with good character than someone with questionable work ethic and questionable value as a teammate too (Simmons).

 

[slinslin]

The next 3 months will be intense leading up to the draft. I predict a lot of movement on draft boards after the NCAA tournament and then workouts.

The international prospects will surely rise once teams see them in workouts. Luwawu could go top 10 I suppose. There are only 4 true small forwards in the first round and Luwawu might be the second best of them (Ingram, Brown, Luwawu, Prince).

I see Zubac and Zizic being top 20 picks. NBA teams should learn from the Jokic pick. Nurkic is struggling in his 2nd season but still the value of European center prospects compared to NCAA center prospects has been severely undervalued in the past.

It will also be interesting to see if the Washington freshman Marquese Chriss and Dejounte Murray declare. If Rabb and Brown even declare.

The draft boards right now are filled with seniors -> Dunn (4th year junior), Hield, Valentine, Brice Johnson, Payton II, Taurean Prince, Caris LeVert, AJ Hammons are all getting first round consideration.

2015 had 4 seniors in the first round - Frank Kaminsky #9 (bust, what a surprise), Jerian Grant #19 (meh), Delon Wright #20(who?) and Larry Nance JR #27 (good pick).

2014 had 5 seniors in the first round - Doug McDermott #11 (I'd like to say bust but at least he had a few moments), Adreian Payne #15 (bust), Shabazz Napier #24 (Lebrons pet and bust), CJ Wilcox #28 (who?) and Josh Huestis #29 (bust)

2013 had 3 seniors -> CJ McCollum, Mason Plumlee, Solomon Hill

2012 had 4 seniors -> Tyler Zeller, Miles Plumlee, Festus Ezeli, Andrew Nicholson

2011 7 seniors Jimmer Fredette, Nolan Smith, Kenneth Faried, Marshon Brooks, Jajuan Johnson, Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler

2010 5 seniors Trevor Booker, Damion James, Quincy Pondexter, Greivis Vasquez, Lazar Hayward

The success stories are Jimmy Butler, Kenneth Faried and CJ McCollum. Two players from small colleges and Jimmy Butler as the last pick in the first round. Then you have a few players who are rotational bench players like the Plumlees, Nance Jr, McDermott..

But overall only 3 out of 28 seniors picked in the first round in the last 6 years have become good NBA players. 4 of 29 if you count Lillard a senior, same case as Dunn.

Realistically if you draft a senior you are drafting someone as a 3rd stringer.

Lillard 4 years at Weber State
McCollum 4 years at Lehigh
Farried 4 years at Morehead State
Butler 1 year at Juco and 3 years at Marquette

So the 3 of the 4 success cases were on small school programs. Butler was a late bloomer.

Looking at this years seniors

The Lillard, McCollum, Farried case does not apply to any of the seniors this year. They are mostly on big name programs.
Gary Payton II case is similiar to Jimmy Butler transfering to Division I basketball.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah I just wouldn't invest in Simmons, too many things not to like. And there's something really suspicious in the way his coach ended his LSU career. That was highly unusual, bowing out of all post season play. It's happened before but not like this and not with a school that isn't an NCAA tourney fixture.

I don't like the idea of trading up in this draft unless the price is small. And it's never small. I think there are a lot of good players in this class but I don't see the separation between the top and the next tier that we usually see.

Brown sounds like a great young man but like you I have no idea if those qualities are positives or negatives as far as his basketball career goes. Still, I'd prefer someone like him with good character than someone with questionable work ethic and questionable value as a teammate too (Simmons).

I don't know their academic schedule but it's been speculated that LSU turned it down because Simmons is no longer eligible and they knew if they accepted the bid, they'd have to release that information.

I'm skeptical though, if that's true it'll come out during the draft stuff because they find EVERYTHING. So why hide it and cost the rest of the team extra games of experience.

 

[Russ Smith]

Chriss and DeJounte Murray are 2 guys on my radar for awhile now. They are both really talented kids. Murray needs to get much stronger and work on his outside shot but very athletic, very quick, handles the ball well for his size.

Chriss is an athletic freak but he's also a very good shooter. He's an interesting kid in Sacramento he often played out of position because the team needed him to and as a result he has an interesting game. Great leaper, fairly effective inside with his athleticism, but he can also shoot the ball. Needs to get better at the in between game and his defense right now is primarily go for the shot blocks, but real nice upside.

I suspect at least one of them enters the draft but if they stick around UW could be really good next year

 

[slinslin]

Since the Kendall Marshall debacle I always check prospects on their twitter accounts.

I liked Marshall as the best PG in his draft class before the draft despite saying that I did not want the Suns to be the ones to pick him. But as soon as we picked him and I saw his non-stop never ending twitter feed I knew he would never make it.

Some of these prospects reveal so much about themselves on twitter.

 

[Catlover]

Chriss and DeJounte Murray are 2 guys on my radar for awhile now. They are both really talented kids. Murray needs to get much stronger and work on his outside shot but very athletic, very quick, handles the ball well for his size.

Chriss is an athletic freak but he's also a very good shooter. He's an interesting kid in Sacramento he often played out of position because the team needed him to and as a result he has an interesting game. Great leaper, fairly effective inside with his athleticism, but he can also shoot the ball. Needs to get better at the in between game and his defense right now is primarily go for the shot blocks, but real nice upside.

I suspect at least one of them enters the draft but if they stick around UW could be really good next year

I had been impressed by what little I'd seen of Chriss before but I watched him play in the conference tournament and there was one play that really bothered me. I forget exactly how it went down but it was something like this. He was near the top of the key and passed it to a player cutting to the hoop. The ball was turned over (don't remember whose fault) and he just stood there for half a beat to display his dissatisfaction over the turnover and then he turned and slowly jogged to the other end. Meanwhile, the guy that intercepted the pass quickly made up the 15 foot lead Chriss had, easily passing by the lazily jogging Chriss and went right in for a wide open layup.

I don't know if a player can overcome that kind of bad habit. I say bad habit even though I only saw him do it that once but I consider it a personality flaw and I'd guess it shows up regularly. But if the other bigs are gone when/if our Washington pick shows up, I'd probably gamble on him anyway.

 

[JCSunsfan]

]I don't know their academic schedule but it's been speculated that LSU turned it down because Simmons is no longer eligible and they knew if they accepted the bid, they'd have to release that information.[/B]

I'm skeptical though, if that's true it'll come out during the draft stuff because they find EVERYTHING. So why hide it and cost the rest of the team extra games of experience.

If that is true, I don't think I want anything to do with Simmons. He quit. It cost his team a post season bid. I know the argument about bad coaching, but he is going to have bad coaching at some point in the NBA too. If he quits when things don't look good--well, that's Markieff part 2.

 

[Russ Smith]

If that is true, I don't think I want anything to do with Simmons. He quit. It cost his team a post season bid. I know the argument about bad coaching, but he is going to have bad coaching at some point in the NBA too. If he quits when things don't look good--well, that's Markieff part 2.

I don't know if it's academics or not and again just a rumor. he's reportedly hiring LeBron's agent,and it's entirely possible LSU found out he had contact with the agent already and ruled him ineligible.

I do agree though it's very odd that LSU said no. Some schools do that but hey Kentucky took a bid with Calipari the year they missed the NCAA's.

Jones the coach said they don't have Hornsby who's injured and Blakeny has some virus that apparently would impair him for at least the first NIT game and they just decided to sit it out. But people are skeptical and naturally assume it's somehow connected to Simmons.

I can certainly see the idea of lets just start over next year, but when you have the projected top pick in the draft on your roster people assume there's some other reason.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I do think that If we end up with a 3-5 pick and Jaylen Brown is there, I take him. He has the drive, physical ability, and smarts. He doesn't have the shooting, but if he ends up like Justise Winslow, he is good value there. He is the player in this draft most likely to be the next Kahwi Leonard. In fact, he is a better physical specimen. He has the speed and stength to defend the 2-4 positions which is a rare thing--actually a star level nba skill. Every good team has a player that is all-nba caliber on the wing (DGreen, Leonard, LeBron)

It would probably be the best combination of need and bpa at the position. The Suns need an elite wing defender. I also think he is a McD type pick. If he does just what he does now, he will have a long productive NBA career. If he adds a corner three, like PJ Tucker did, he will be supremely dangerous.

 

[Errntknght]

I had a nightmare last night. We got the no. 2 pick and the team that drafted first didn't pick Simmons so naturally we did. But when he reported to the team for training camp he was actually Michael Beasley!

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I had a nightmare last night. We got the no. 2 pick and the team that drafted first didn't pick Simmons so naturally we did. But when he reported to the team for training camp he was actually Michael Beasley!

That might be the scariest nightmare imaginable!

 

[leclerc]

I guess I'd be okay with twin towers, Brown, Booker and Bledsoe plus Warren, Knight and Mirza as subs. Lots of shooting and scoring and no defence. Typical Suns team (except the height and lack of quality pg).

Also draft a PF with a later pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I watch the film of Bender and I do not see much difference from Frank Kaminsky last year, except Bender is younger.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I guess I'd be okay with twin towers, Brown, Booker and Bledsoe plus Warren, Knight and Mirza as subs. Lots of shooting and scoring and no defence. Typical Suns team (except the height and lack of quality pg).

Also draft a PF with a later pick.

Bledsoe, Brown, Chandler and Len are all decent defenders. Hopefully Booker is improving. That seems better previous Suns teams.

I admit, it remains to be seen how good of a defender Brown will be in the NBA, but I am expecting he will be good.

 

[Sunburn]

At pick 3, I think the most likely game changer is Bender. Guys that size, that move like that, and have those ball skills, well, you just can't find them. Like Porzingis, he's a unicorn. I think you run to the podium to pick him.

 

[slinslin]

Bender is completely different player than Porzingis and honestly Porzingis is overrated. If he was not playing for the Knicks and such a unique player who surprised initiallly he would get way less hype.

Nikola Jokic > Porzingis

Also concerning Bender:
1. he is more of a scrappy/hustle player than "skills".
2. He doesn't really have good shooting touch.
3. He was not really a dominant player in youth competitions among his age.
4. He is barely a factor for Maccabi who are struggling this year
5. Bender's position will be Center once he gets stronger. I can't see him having a long-term future at PF.

I am not convinced that Bender is a better international prospect than SF Luwawu, C Zubac, FC Zizic and the french trio of 7 footers are wild cards.

The only things in this draft that I am certain about is that I want

Gary Payton II with our 2nd round pick

And I would really love to get Rabb with Washingtons pick and Valentine with Clevelands pick(probably moving up some spots)

Hopefully we get a better picture of the #3-7 spots in the NCAA tournament. I want to like Dunn (but his age) or Brown (raw), so hopefully they have convincing tournaments.

 

[slinslin]

Ingram with 20/8/3