2016 NBA Draft thread

[leclerc]

I understood he meant Simmons, Ingram then Chriss.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I really hope the Suns luck out in the lottery and get a top 2 pick. I could even deal with #3. Bender is a gamble, but I see the potential upside as worth it, especially considering he is the youngest of the top prospects.

After that, it is hard to justify any of the picks.

Hield and Murray both play Booker's position. If they were obviously superior talents, I could overlook that, but I don't think they are.

Chriss might be my next favorite prospect, but the fact that he plays sporadic defense, doesn't rebound at a high level, and is uniquely foul-prone concerns me.

I like Dunn a lot too, but...
1) He's older.
2) We have Bledsoe and Knight, and 3 point guards didn't work out the last time.
3) The crop of point guard prospects for the 2017 draft is incredibly deep. You could probably get a pg of Dunn's quality in the middle of the first round next year (and 4 years younger, to boot), so taking him in the top 5 this year seems limiting.

Labissiere is a tremendous gamble, and I question Ellenson's ceiling.

All of this is to say there's a ton of players in this draft I would be thrilled to get at 12, but pretty much nobody I would be happy with at 5. At least the Suns are always lucky in the lottery!

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns have any interest in Maker they'll work him out with some quality players and know within a few minutes if there's any potential.

 

[slinslin]

So are you thinking the Suns should pass on Marquese Chriss with their pick (potentially) at #4 for the twin towers, Skal Labissiere and Thon Maker?

No I think right now they should pick Chriss at #4. Labissiere at 12, Maker at 28 and D.Murray at 34. That would be my best case, well best case substitute Chriss with Ingram.

But I somehow expect that Skal will rise in workouts. You dont lose that much stock just because you didnt dominate at Kentucky and Calipari doesnt use you correctly.

I think Calipari simply did not get the most out of Skal because his strength is his shooting. Cal made him play in the post for the most part instead of getting him jumpers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No I think right now they should pick Chriss at #4. Labissiere at 12, Maker at 28 and D.Murray at 34. That would be my best case, well best case substitute Chriss with Ingram.

But I somehow expect that Skal will rise in workouts. You dont lose that much stock just because you didnt dominate at Kentucky and Calipari doesnt use you correctly.

I think Calipari simply did not get the most out of Skal because his strength is his shooting. Cal made him play in the post for the most part instead of getting him jumpers.

You could be right about Calipari not using Skal correctly but Archie Goodwin would disagree with your comment about a player's stock dropping.

 

[Hoop Head]

If we don't get #1 or #2 I'd almost rather have #4 because I think it's a toss up between Hield and Bender for #3, depending on the team that picks there. I think Bender would be fit better in Phoenix and not having the option of Hield might make that pick look better since Hield should contribute right away while Bender is more of a project. If Bender is picked #3 then the Suns can claim BPA with Hield even though we have Booker at the same position. I think the #4 pick with Hield on the board is more valuable in a trade also. Still hoping for some luck, the Suns are due a break in the lottery considering they've never had one. Just getting #2 would be a huge move and land us either Ingram or Simmons without needing to choose.

 

[slinslin]

You could be right about Calipari not using Skal correctly but Archie Goodwin would disagree with your comment about a player's stock dropping.

Goodwin was never considered a #1 pick. A year ago Labissiere was rated higher than Towns.

 

[Phrazbit]

An easy example of Kentucky kids losing stock would be the Harrison brothers. They were viewed as clear cut future lotto picks coming out of HS, one ended up in the 2nd round and the other went undrafted.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Goodwin was never considered a #1 pick. A year ago Labissiere was rated higher than Towns.

Goodwin was highly rated coming out of high school and his stock plummeted as a result of his time at Kentucky. That runs counter to your statement that it doesn't happen that way, number 1 pick never entered the conversation.

 

[AzStevenCal]

An easy example of Kentucky kids losing stock would be the Harrison brothers. They were viewed as clear cut future lotto picks coming out of HS, one ended up in the 2nd round and the other went undrafted.

Yes, the Harrisons are another good example. It happened with Rondo at Kentucky too but obviously that was pre-Calipari. I'm sure there are several other examples while Cal has been there. It happens at every school.

 

[slinslin]

Goodwin was highly rated coming out of high school and his stock plummeted as a result of his time at Kentucky. That runs counter to your statement that it doesn't happen that way, number 1 pick never entered the conversation.

He was rated 15th by ESPN.

That is a huge difference compared to being rated second.

Scout.com had Labissiere first in his class and Goodwin 14th (behind Noel (76ers), Muhammad(Wolves), Austin(medical retirement), Anderson(Spurs), Adams(Thunder), TARCZEWSKI (UofA), Poythress(Kentucky), Bennett(out of the league), Jerrett (out of the league), Ashley (Alba Berlin), Ridley(Texas), Sulaimon (dismissed from Duke), Smart(Celtics).
#15 Sam Dekker, #16 Gary Harris, #17 Ricardo Ledo, #23 Kris Dunn, #26 Mitch McGrady, #27 TJ Warren, #29 Glenn Robinson JR

So Arizona alone had 3 recruits that were ranked higher than Goodwin and did not make it to the NBA.

 

[slinslin]

nbadraft.net has updated their mock, unfortunately I don't put too much stock in their ratings

The noteoworthy picks
#1 Simmons
#2 Ingram
#3 Hield
#4 Bender
#13 D.Murray
#14 Skal Labissiere
#20 Marquese Chriss
#28 Thon Maker
#33 Timothee Luwawu
#36 Tyler Ulis
#46 Ante Zizic

Hard to take them serious I think when you put Sabonis at #7, Ellenson at #19, Chriss at #20, Luwawu at #33 and Zizic at #46.

 

[slinslin]

An easy example of Kentucky kids losing stock would be the Harrison brothers. They were viewed as clear cut future lotto picks coming out of HS, one ended up in the 2nd round and the other went undrafted.

Only one of the Harrisons was regarded as a lottery pick, the other was rated as a fringe first round pick. Andrew Harrison was only rated that highly because people thought he was a 6'5 PG.

Again as in Goodwins case huge difference between being rated #1/2 in your class or rated around 7-15.

Also the Harrison twins stayed multiple years.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

nbadraft.net has updated their mock, unfortunately I don't put too much stock in their ratings

The noteoworthy picks
#1 Simmons
#2 Ingram
#3 Hield
#4 Bender
#13 D.Murray
#14 Skal Labissiere
#20 Marquese Chriss
#28 Thon Maker
#33 Timothee Luwawu
#36 Tyler Ulis
#46 Ante Zizic

Hard to take them serious I think when you put Sabonis at #7, Ellenson at #19, Chriss at #20, Luwawu at #33 and Zizic at #46.

Sometimes it feels like they do their rankings by throwing darts. If the draft unfolded this way, the Suns could conceivably get Bender, Chriss, Luwawu, and Ulis. I would take that in a heartbeat!

 

[Russ Smith]

He was rated 15th by ESPN.

That is a huge difference compared to being rated second.

Scout.com had Labissiere first in his class and Goodwin 14th (behind Noel (76ers), Muhammad(Wolves), Austin(medical retirement), Anderson(Spurs), Adams(Thunder), TARCZEWSKI (UofA), Poythress(Kentucky), Bennett(out of the league), Jerrett (out of the league), Ashley (Alba Berlin), Ridley(Texas), Sulaimon (dismissed from Duke), Smart(Celtics).
#15 Sam Dekker, #16 Gary Harris, #17 Ricardo Ledo, #23 Kris Dunn, #26 Mitch McGrady, #27 TJ Warren, #29 Glenn Robinson JR

So Arizona alone had 3 recruits that were ranked higher than Goodwin and did not make it to the NBA.

I would bet Tarc will be in the NBA on someone's bench. That size and a good defender he'll be on an NBA roster I expect.

 

[Russ Smith]

Only one of the Harrisons was regarded as a lottery pick, the other was rated as a fringe first round pick. Andrew Harrison was only rated that highly because people thought he was a 6'5 PG.

Again as in Goodwins case huge difference between being rated #1/2 in your class or rated around 7-15.

Also the Harrison twins stayed multiple years.

They were rated the top 2 kids in the class from their 8th grade year into their early junior year. By then others started to pass them by but they were both highly regarded. I do agree it was largely because there was the mistaken belief one could play PG.

First time I saw them play in HS I said they're highly overrated.

 

[slinslin]

Thon Maker was ruled eligible.

Givony says he has small hands and average athleticism (that seems really questionable to me, if Maker is an average athlete for a 7'1 center who is athletic then?) but has very high character and is a tireless worker.

Not sure small hands matter all that much when he is 7'1 they cant be that small. 9'3 standing reach.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thon Maker was ruled eligible.

Givony says he has small hands and average athleticism (that seems really questionable to me, if Maker is an average athlete for a 7'1 center who is athletic then?) but has very high character and is a tireless worker.

Not sure small hands matter all that much when he is 7'1 they cant be that small. 9'3 standing reach.

Thon Maker may have defensive him impact sort of like Rudy Gobert, except Gobert has slightly better height and standing reach. However in video, Maker is a better shooter from outside.

 

[Phrazbit]

Watching Maker's highlights I think a lot of the clips where he looks more agile are from earlier in his HS career, when he hadn't reached his current height. He certainly looks a lot shorter in many of them and the growth of several inches often robs these guys of some of their raw athletic ability.

Which would explain the difference between the film you guys are seeing and what the scouts are currently saying... beyond that high school highlight videos are always prone to inflate talent.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thon Maker was ruled eligible.

Givony says he has small hands and average athleticism (that seems really questionable to me, if Maker is an average athlete for a 7'1 center who is athletic then?) but has very high character and is a tireless worker.

Not sure small hands matter all that much when he is 7'1 they cant be that small. 9'3 standing reach.

I've mentioned his hands a few times already. He has bad hands and he has small hands, that's a poor combination for any size player. He's not a great athlete, that much is obvious just from watching the clips, but I don't think that's as important as his hands are.

 

[3rdside]

Agreed. Dude has small hands, like really small. Check out google images or pause in some of the videos..I know it's a change of tack but I think I'm just about to go on record saying his hands will be the thing that stops him from being any good.

Small hands aren't always a killer - see Ben Wallace - but yeah, they will be for Thon imo. Can't catch well, go beast mode with one handed reaching dunks etc.

Him being any good at all will come down to his athleticism and his shooting. The former is a given, the latter not so much.


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[leclerc]

Hope we pass on Thon then.

 

[GatorAZ]

I can't imagine what a smooth freak Chriss will be in 2-3 years. If his shot projects as well as scouts think he will be the perfect 4. I imagine he'll have one of those crazy pre-draft workout vids on youtube right before the draft. He's just too smooth and coordinated for a tall kid that young.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I can't imagine what a smooth freak Chriss will be in 2-3 years. If his shot projects as well as scouts think he will be the perfect 4. I imagine he'll have one of those crazy pre-draft workout vids on youtube right before the draft. He's just too smooth and coordinated for a tall kid that young.

His lack of defensive rebounding worries me slightly, but his upside is tremendous. It may seem like a reach at this point, but I'm not sure there's a better fit for the Suns if they end up drafting 5th or 6th. At 13, he would be a no-brainer.

 

[Sunburn]

I was very interested in Chriss until I studied his defensive habits. That cooled me off. Reminds me of Amare. Great highlight blocks but that's about it. Awareness is terrible. His box outs are atrocious.