2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[SirStefan32]

OK. I just erased a brilliant sarcastic post in the interest of board atmosphere.

His shooting is going to be just fine. . . based on what?

I've posted this several times, but I don't know if I have in this thread. There is Doncic-bashing going on in just about every thread every single day, so it's hard to keep track. I am basing this on several things. First off, the kid has an amazing work ethic. He lives and breathes basketball, and has been since he was a little kid. I guarantee you that he will be in the gym working on his game every single day. He will spend more time there than anyone else. He'll be the first one to come to practice, and the last one to leave.

In addition to that, if you watch his games, focus on his shot. It is not broken, and all the elements of a shot are good. His release is good, rotation is there, follow-up is good, he is rarely off balance, shoulders are squared up and lined up with the rim. Also, his free throw shooting is very good. There is no fundamental flaw with his shot. There is no reason to think that his shooting will not improve.

 

[elindholm]

In addition to that, if you watch his games, focus on his shot. It is not broken, and all the elements of a shot are good. His release is good, rotation is there, follow-up is good, he is rarely off balance, shoulders are squared up and lined up with the rim. Also, his free throw shooting is very good. There is no fundamental flaw with his shot. There is no reason to think that his shooting will not improve.

I'm sticking with my pledge not to talk about Doncic, but there is a general flaw in this analysis. We know that some NBA players with good shooting form were never able to extend their range to the three-point line. Jordan himself shot only .327 from three over his career. Kevin Johnson, at .305, is an even more dramatic example. And it's not a generational thing, either: TJ Warren's inability to extend his range has been often noted on this board, Westbook limps along at .310, and DeRozan is even worse at .291(!!). I'm not going to get into a detailed analysis of any of those player's shooting forms, but they were/are all better than 80% from the line, so the basic mechanics are certainly more than adequate.

If a player hasn't developed a reliable three-point shot yet, he's not entitled to the presumption of having one later.

 

[Ronin]

Jonathan Givony
@DraftExpress

Ole Miss junior Terence Davis will declare for the 2018 NBA Draft, he informed ESPN. “This is a dream come true,” I am entering the draft because I feel like this is the rule, so why not take advantage of it? I definitely believe that I am an NBA player" News story coming.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm sticking with my pledge not to talk about Doncic, but there is a general flaw in this analysis. We know that some NBA players with good shooting form were never able to extend their range to the three-point line. Jordan himself shot only .327 from three over his career. Kevin Johnson, at .305, is an even more dramatic example. And it's not a generational thing, either: TJ Warren's inability to extend his range has been often noted on this board, Westbook limps along at .310, and DeRozan is even worse at .291(!!). I'm not going to get into a detailed analysis of any of those player's shooting forms, but they were/are all better than 80% from the line, so the basic mechanics are certainly more than adequate.

If a player hasn't developed a reliable three-point shot yet, he's not entitled to the presumption of having one later.

I will give a player some benefit if the shot is improving. But that is not the case with Doncic.

If we draft him, I hope I am wrong.

 

[Raindog]

Yeah, if we get stuck with the fourth or fifth pick in the lottery, and all the higher ceiling guys are gone, I guess I have no problem with taking Doncic and hoping for the best. I would honestly not be as optimistic about his chances to develop into star as some others who have bought into the hype, but I would certainly be happy if he proved me wrong.

 

[Raindog]

He has the same body type as his brother.

I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him with a second rounder. Who knows, he could turn out to be another Marc Gasol - the supposedly not as talented brother who is actually better than you expect.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, if we get stuck with the fourth or fifth pick in the lottery, and all the higher ceiling guys are gone, I guess I have no problem with taking Doncic and hoping for the best. I would honestly not be as optimistic about his chances to develop into star as some others who have bought into the hype, but I would certainly be happy if he proved me wrong.

You don't think there are scouts and fans that bought into him because of his play? It's just hype? I guess, maybe. I really don't know what to think of him, one way or the other.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've posted this several times, but I don't know if I have in this thread. There is Doncic-bashing going on in just about every thread every single day, so it's hard to keep track. I am basing this on several things. First off, the kid has an amazing work ethic. He lives and breathes basketball, and has been since he was a little kid. I guarantee you that he will be in the gym working on his game every single day. He will spend more time there than anyone else. He'll be the first one to come to practice, and the last one to leave.

In addition to that, if you watch his games, focus on his shot. It is not broken, and all the elements of a shot are good. His release is good, rotation is there, follow-up is good, he is rarely off balance, shoulders are squared up and lined up with the rim. Also, his free throw shooting is very good. There is no fundamental flaw with his shot. There is no reason to think that his shooting will not improve.

I'm thinking Bender is too fresh in our minds with his passive play. If Doncic plays aggressively, Suns fans will love him.

 

[Hoop Head]

Trae Young has officially declared for the draft. Didn't think there was any question there but glad to see he's in. He's an article on that. Hopefully the Suns can acquire him somehow. He's fallen lately in most mocks but is still a lottery pick. If he's available around #9 or #10 the Suns might be able to trade their Miami and Milwaukee picks to move up for him.


https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/23...t-williamss-future-and-kentucky-one-and-dones

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm thinking Bender is too fresh in our minds with his passive play. If Doncic plays aggressively, Suns fans will love him.

Oh. I have no doubt Doncic will play aggressively. And I think he will be a pretty good NBA player. He passes well. He is aggressive. He shoots fairly well inside the arc. But he is not a good three point shooter and that is essential in a pg for the Suns. Please, I know there are flaws in comparisons, but there is a young Dan Majerle comparison in these ways--aggressive, strong body, decent size for a guard, finishes well. Dan was a poor outside shooter and a much better defender. Anyway. I just don't see Doncic as the superstar type of player at the top of a draft like this.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh. I have no doubt Doncic will play aggressively. And I think he will be a pretty good NBA player. He passes well. He is aggressive. He shoots fairly well inside the arc. But he is not a good three point shooter and that is essential in a pg for the Suns. Please, I know there are flaws in comparisons, but there is a young Dan Majerle comparison in these ways--aggressive, strong body, decent size for a guard, finishes well. Dan was a poor outside shooter and a much better defender. Anyway. I just don't see Doncic as the superstar type of player at the top of a draft like this.

Majerle wasn't a bad 3 point shooter.

If Doncic could shoot the 3 point shot like Majerle I would be satisfied.

The problem with Majerle, he got enamored with it as his career progressed to the detriment of his all-around game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Majerle wasn't a bad 3 point shooter.

If Doncic could shoot the 3 point shot like Majerle I would be satisfied.

The problem with Majerle, he got enamored with it as his career progressed to the detriment of his all-around game.

He was when he came into the league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Majerle wasn't a bad 3 point shooter.

If Doncic could shoot the 3 point shot like Majerle I would be satisfied.

The problem with Majerle, he got enamored with it as his career progressed to the detriment of his all-around game.

I had thought that was due to his (back?) injury. It seemed to me that he stopped taking the ball to the basket after that injury and became primarily a distance shooter. But maybe that was just my interpretation?

 

[Mainstreet]

I had thought that was due to his (back?) injury. It seemed to me that he stopped taking the ball to the basket after that injury and became primarily a distance shooter. But maybe that was just my interpretation?

Just going from memory... which is a dangerous thing to do, I thought Majerles' back surgery was not that serious and he had a full recovery.

As I viewed it, Majerle simply strayed away from the parts of his game that made him special.

Personally I thought the hardware in his foot might be potentially a bigger problem.

 

[Raindog]

I think you both are essentially correct. Before Majerle's injury, when he was still "Thunder" Dan, his aggressiveness attacking the basket was what made him so effective. After he stopped playing that style and became solely a stand-and-pop shooter, all the rest of his game that made him so good (including his defense) pretty much atrophied away.

I think that was largely due to the combined effect of his injury issues and the acclaim he received for being a three-point "threat"... which he really wasn't, at least not so much so that the drop off in the rest of his game was acceptable. It was too bad, because be really was a far better player in the early part of his career before he became "Three Point Dan."

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Looking back, Majerle actually led the entire league in 3 pointers made in 92-93 when the Suns went to the finals (tied with Reggie Miller) AND the next year, while tying for 2nd the year after that. He didn't have the best percentage, but it was good for the volume he shot at the time.

To show how drastically things have changed...

Majerle's LEAGUE-LEADING 167 3-pointers made in 92-93 would not have put him in the top 20 of the league last year.

(Curry hit 402 in 15-16!)

 

[Mainstreet]

I think you both are essentially correct. Before Majerle's injury, when he was still "Thunder" Dan, his aggressiveness attacking the basket was what made him so effective. After he stopped playing that style and became solely a stand-and-pop shooter, all the rest of his game that made him so good (including his defense) pretty much atrophied away.

I think that was largely due to the combined effect of his injury issues and the acclaim he received for being a three-point "threat"... which he really wasn't, at least not so much so that the drop off in the rest of his game was acceptable. It was too bad, because be really was a far better player in the early part of his career before he became "Three Point Dan."

I remember at least one playoff series with Houston where Majerle contributed to shooting the Suns out of a chance for championship by relying too much on the 3 point shot.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember at least one playoff series with Houston where Majerle contributed to shooting the Suns out of a chance for championship by relying too much on the 3 point shot.

It was both Houston series. He couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn in 94 or 95 against the Rockets.

 

[Raindog]

It was both Houston series. He couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn in 94 or 95 against the Rockets.

Also... hate to mention it... but the brick at the end of Game Six in '93. Uggh... what a dark memory. Loved most of what Majerle did as a Sun. But a lot of his three-point shooting, not so much.

 

[Mainstreet]

It was both Houston series. He couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn in 94 or 95 against the Rockets.

What is sometimes overlooked, if the Suns could have gotten by Houston in these two series they likely would have become NBA champions.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Also... hate to mention it... but the brick at the end of Game Six in '93. Uggh... what a dark memory. Loved most of what Majerle did as a Sun. But a lot of his three-point shooting, not so much.

I’ll make I.T worse... I.T wasn’t a brick. I.T was an airball from eight feet.

Man, those last two minutes were awful.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What is sometimes overlooked, if the Suns could have gotten by Houston in these two series they likely would have become NBA champions.

It would have been really tough still. Barkley could barely move in both Game 7s after screwing up his back. That wasnt going to get better during the playoffs.

If he stayed healthy, we would have ended both series in 5 and thrashed the Jazz in the WCF and the Thicks (Reilly’s Thug-Knicks) in the Finals. and the next year I think we beat Robinson/Rodman and figure out a way to gut out what probably would have been one of the most entertaining finals ever Pitting Barkley/KJ against young Shaq/Penny.

Oh... and if Joe Klein’s damn foot didn’t destroy Manning’s knee in 95, we would have destroyed everyone in our path.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would have been really tough still. Barkley could barely move in both Game 7s after screwing up his back. That wasnt going to get better during the playoffs.

If he stayed healthy, we would have ended both series in 5 and thrashed the Jazz in the WCF and the Thicks (Reilly’s Thug-Knicks) in the Finals. and the next year I think we beat Robinson/Rodman and figure out a way to gut out what probably would have been one of the most entertaining finals ever Pitting Barkley/KJ against young Shaq/Penny.

Oh... and if Joe Klein’s damn foot didn’t destroy Manning’s knee in 95, we would have destroyed everyone in our path.

The Suns have had their chances. It seems something always gets in their way.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns have had their chances. It seems something always gets in their way.

Here’s my newest nightmare. We have the worst record... lose the lotto and get the 2nd pick with Memphis getting the first. Kawai pushes out of SA. Memphis trades the first pick for him...

And the Spurs take Ayton, jumping us for the next D-Rob like they did in 88, Pop make him a superstar and new twin towers with Aldridge and we take Doncic who ends up a Darko-sized bust.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Here’s my newest nightmare. We have the worst record... lose the lotto and get the 2nd pick with Memphis getting the first. Kawai pushes out of SA. Memphis trades the first pick for him...

And the Spurs take Ayton, jumping us for the next D-Rob like they did in 88, Pop make him a superstar and new twin towers with Aldridge and we take Doncic who ends up a Darko-sized bust.

You really wanted to get the topic back to Doncic didn’t you?