2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[AzStevenCal]

What you say is true, JC. Every bit of it.

But, it would nice to see the Suns advance from the laughingstock phase they currently occupy to good enough. Then try for the next step.

Absolutely.

 

[Hoop Head]

No doubt the Suns are down right now but I think the "laughingstock" label is exaggerating things. There haven't been any players openly say they wouldn't play here because of ownership or management. Have there been issues? Yes, but all teams have issues and the Suns have not been the worst in the league. You could say Cleveland ruining the Kyrie Irving relationship was the worst in the last year since that made them go from contender to pretender. While the Suns lost Eric Bledsoe? So they went from a lottery team to a worse lottery team, not a big deal. I don't think that compares, especially since his agent is Rich Paul and most people know what a headache he is. We're in a slump as a team but I don't think many people outside of AZ view the Suns as a "laughingstock". I think Suns fans were spoiled by how Jerry ran things for so long, keeping the team competitive year in and year out. They never missed the playoffs for more than a year at a time, except with the drug scandal in the 80's and now they've missed them for 8 consecutive years.

No high profile coaching candidates refused to meet with the Suns. Things didn't work with Budenholzer, they didn't work for him in Atlanta either. Not every partnership is perfect. He is a guy who only won 3 more games than the Suns did last year. I know he's better than that but how much better? That's questionable. He's not good enough to hurt our reputation by not accepting our offer. We don't even know if an offer was made, it was only said he removed himself from consideration so things didn't mesh. Some coaches don't mesh with certain front offices or owners.

Booker is happy to be a Sun, so is Jackson. We don't have rookies dreading being drafted by us. With quality young talent, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. How long it takes to get to it is questionable but a good draft pick and coaching hire should have us in position to be back in the playoffs within 2 years. Using this year to build chemistry and develop players a bit more before trying to fill those holes with the cap space we should have and then make a strong playoff push.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No doubt the Suns are down right now but I think the "laughingstock" label is exaggerating things.

I'd have to disagree. I don't believe we should be the laughingstock of the league but we are. Much of it is due to ESPN and the influence of a bitter ex-Suns employee but he (and they) have helped shape a highly negative public opinion about our franchise. We're down right now but I don't think we will be for long. And I don't think the label will survive our turnaround so I'm not overly concerned but we really are the whipping dog of the NBA right now. JMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd have to disagree. I don't believe we should be the laughingstock of the league but we are. Much of it is due to ESPN and the influence of a bitter ex-Suns employee but he (and they) have helped shape a highly negative public opinion about our franchise. We're down right now but I don't think we will be for long. And I don't think the label will survive our turnaround so I'm not overly concerned but we really are the whipping dog of the NBA right now. JMO.

Man, I don’t know how we don’t deserve to be the whipping boy, Steve. We have an owner who is reviled by press (outside of ESPN too) and players alike, we’re on to our fourth coach in five years (and even if you don’t want to count Triano, that’s still an ugly 3 in 5) had multiple players bad mouth the team and had our GM get into war of words with them and this season saw... what... FOUR 40 point beat downs and twice opposing coaches sat either an entire game or just a half game and still saw their teams win by 30 +.

Oh, and our top coaching candidate so far this offseason told us to blow and Fizdale might have done so also according to some reports.

Us, the Knicks and the Kings are laughingstocks and I think it’s really hard to argue any of those teams don’t deserve every bit of ridicule they get at this point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man, I don’t know how we don’t deserve to be the whipping boy, Steve. We have an owner who is reviled by press (outside of ESPN too) and players alike, we’re on to our fourth coach in five years (and even if you don’t want to count Triano, that’s still an ugly 3 in 5) had multiple players bad mouth the team and had our GM get into war of words with them and this season saw... what... FOUR 40 point beat downs and twice opposing coaches sat either an entire game or just a half game and still saw their teams win by 30 +.

Oh, and our top coaching candidate so far this offseason told us to blow and Fizdale might have done so also according to some reports.

Us, the Knicks and the Kings are laughingstocks and I think it’s really hard to argue any of those teams don’t deserve every bit of ridicule they get at this point.

Actually Sarver is liked by a lot of players. We deserve to be viewed negatively but we aren't the only team that deserves that view. We're just the whipping boy of choice because of a disgruntled ex-employee's 5 year radio and TV campaign. IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually Sarver is liked by a lot of players. We deserve to be viewed negatively but we aren't the only team that deserves that view. We're just the whipping boy of choice because of a disgruntled ex-employee's 5 year radio and TV campaign. IMO.

Liked by “a lot” of players? You really believe this after Sarver was reportedly one of the biggest problems during the last lockout?

And who’s the ex-employee? Here’s an article from a bunch of reporters across the country who uniformly think he’s atrocious:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...donough-earl-watson-eric-bledsoe-z/799211001/

And I think we’re the whipping boy of choice because we made it impossible not to be this year. Maybe some reporter does have an ax to grind, but good lord, did this team need to do everything they could to help him grind it? Either during the season or now after it?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Liked by “a lot” of players? You really believe this after Sarver was reportedly one of the biggest problems during the last lockout?

And I don't believe this either. I blame the Knicks (and maybe the Lakers) and Bill Simmons for the story about Sarver being a problem. Even Stern admitted afterward that Sarver was actually leading the charge to avoid a lost season and that an agreement was reached because of him. Simmons was used like a tool by the big franchises who wanted to do away with all salary restrictions so they could buy the talent they wanted without penalty.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No doubt the Suns are down right now but I think the "laughingstock" label is exaggerating things. There haven't been any players openly say they wouldn't play here because of ownership or management. Have there been issues? Yes, but all teams have issues and the Suns have not been the worst in the league. You could say Cleveland ruining the Kyrie Irving relationship was the worst in the last year since that made them go from contender to pretender. While the Suns lost Eric Bledsoe? So they went from a lottery team to a worse lottery team, not a big deal. I don't think that compares, especially since his agent is Rich Paul and most people know what a headache he is. We're in a slump as a team but I don't think many people outside of AZ view the Suns as a "laughingstock". I think Suns fans were spoiled by how Jerry ran things for so long, keeping the team competitive year in and year out. They never missed the playoffs for more than a year at a time, except with the drug scandal in the 80's and now they've missed them for 8 consecutive years.

No high profile coaching candidates refused to meet with the Suns. Things didn't work with Budenholzer, they didn't work for him in Atlanta either. Not every partnership is perfect. He is a guy who only won 3 more games than the Suns did last year. I know he's better than that but how much better? That's questionable. He's not good enough to hurt our reputation by not accepting our offer. We don't even know if an offer was made, it was only said he removed himself from consideration so things didn't mesh. Some coaches don't mesh with certain front offices or owners.

Booker is happy to be a Sun, so is Jackson. We don't have rookies dreading being drafted by us. With quality young talent, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. How long it takes to get to it is questionable but a good draft pick and coaching hire should have us in position to be back in the playoffs within 2 years. Using this year to build chemistry and develop players a bit more before trying to fill those holes with the cap space we should have and then make a strong playoff push.

Bless you Poop Head (how can I type that with a straight face?).

The best young players in this draft want to play for the Suns. Bagley, Ayton, and people associated with Doncic (consensus best players, not my opinion) have all talked about wanting to come here. I have heard Young would love to come here too. I know they would like to be drafted earlier rather than later, but still, playing with Booker and Jackson is a draw.

 

[Covert Rain]

Man, I don’t know how we don’t deserve to be the whipping boy, Steve. We have an owner who is reviled by press (outside of ESPN too) and players alike, we’re on to our fourth coach in five years (and even if you don’t want to count Triano, that’s still an ugly 3 in 5) had multiple players bad mouth the team and had our GM get into war of words with them and this season saw... what... FOUR 40 point beat downs and twice opposing coaches sat either an entire game or just a half game and still saw their teams win by 30 +.

Oh, and our top coaching candidate so far this offseason told us to blow and Fizdale might have done so also according to some reports.

Us, the Knicks and the Kings are laughingstocks and I think it’s really hard to argue any of those teams don’t deserve every bit of ridicule they get at this point.

I don’t know about deserve but our owner is the constant. At the owners meetings it leaked out he was despised. The players reps during the lockout had nothing but bad things to say about him. We have not been able to attract top coaches or tier 1 free agents. This used to be a destination.

This team has nowhere near the reputation we had pre-Sarver on many levels.

 

[BC867]

Actually Sarver is liked by a lot of players.

Even if that were true, what does it really mean? The players interact with the coaching staff and training staff and, sporadically, with the GM. Not with team owners.

Saying that Sarver is liked by a lot of players sounds like saying young kids like it when their grandparents visit and spoil them, leaving the parents to deal with the consequences after they leave.

Or from a corporate perspective, it destroys the chain of command which, if handled properly, is supposed to maintain the crucial concept of accountability.

Sarver's meddling, micro-managing and pretending that he is an expert on the technical side of the operation has indeed made the Suns a laughingstock.

The latest example was him bypassing his General Manager and driving away the coach that we really wanted. If the rationalization is that his General Manager is weak, inexperienced and came cheap (which is all true), who hired him? Sarver. It is not an alibi. It is an explanation of where the fault lies.

 

[Hoop Head]

The latest example was him bypassing his General Manager and driving away the coach that we really wanted. If the rationalization is that his General Manager is weak, inexperienced and came cheap (which is all true), who hired him? Sarver. It is not an alibi. It is an explanation of where the fault lies.

There is no way you'll ever be ok with Sarver because you're more interested in believing rumors than actual facts. There hasn't been any facts about Budenholzer passing on the coaching position but you choose to latch onto the narrative that makes Sarver look the worst, even though that has not been proven.

The Suns said they would do a large and comprehensive coaching search, casting a wide net, and interview a lot of candidates. I feel comfortable saying some people would be upset that the Suns didn't look at enough people before making their choice. If he was hired, or offered the job, then that would have been

Budenholzer was the first interview reported. If he was hired, or offered the job, then that would have been McD and Sarver going back on their word about doing an exhaustive coaching search. It's ok that it didn't work out, I wish we knew more as to why it didn't, but we can't stay in the past and think "what if" for a coach who was coming off of a poor season coaching another team in the East.

Budenholzer was not the top candidate available or the Suns top choice, there's no indication that was the case. Had he been, I believe they would have pushed harder. It's a possibility that he said "no thanks" to McD and James Jones on Monday and Sarver tried getting him on board the next day. That is a possibility just like your assumption that Sarver drove him off, we don't know. He is someone who wasn't known to be available until we got the OK to interview him from Atlanta. It would have been setting us up for disappointment and failure if we set the top coaching choice to be someone who was under contract to another team with 2 more years on their deal. He just came off a 24 win season, just barely edged out by the Suns for worst record. That doesn't say "#1 candidate" to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even if that were true, what does it really mean? The players interact with the coaching staff and training staff and, sporadically, with the GM. Not with team owners.

Saying that Sarver is liked by a lot of players sounds like saying young kids like it when their grandparents visit and spoil them, leaving the parents to deal with the consequences after they leave.

Not a whole lot. I only made that comment in response to the statement that players hated him. Sarver gets blame that isn't due him but he's put a lot of the black marks next to his name all by himself.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is no way you'll ever be ok with Sarver because you're more interested in believing rumors than actual facts. There hasn't been any facts about Budenholzer passing on the coaching position but you choose to latch onto the narrative that makes Sarver look the worst, even though that has not been proven.

The Suns said they would do a large and comprehensive coaching search, casting a wide net, and interview a lot of candidates. I feel comfortable saying some people would be upset that the Suns didn't look at enough people before making their choice. If he was hired, or offered the job, then that would have been

Budenholzer was the first interview reported. If he was hired, or offered the job, then that would have been McD and Sarver going back on their word about doing an exhaustive coaching search. It's ok that it didn't work out, I wish we knew more as to why it didn't, but we can't stay in the past and think "what if" for a coach who was coming off of a poor season coaching another team in the East.

Budenholzer was not the top candidate available or the Suns top choice, there's no indication that was the case. Had he been, I believe they would have pushed harder. It's a possibility that he said "no thanks" to McD and James Jones on Monday and Sarver tried getting him on board the next day. That is a possibility just like your assumption that Sarver drove him off, we don't know. He is someone who wasn't known to be available until we got the OK to interview him from Atlanta. It would have been setting us up for disappointment and failure if we set the top coaching choice to be someone who was under contract to another team with 2 more years on their deal. He just came off a 24 win season, just barely edged out by the Suns for worst record. That doesn't say "#1 candidate" to me.

You’re likely the leader of a small (very small) pack of contrarians on this point.

 

[Ronin]

Luka Doncic Won't Have Individual Workouts With Teams

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[JCSunsfan]

No doubt the Suns are down right now but I think the "laughingstock" label is exaggerating things. There haven't been any players openly say they wouldn't play here because of ownership or management. Have there been issues? Yes, but all teams have issues and the Suns have not been the worst in the league. You could say Cleveland ruining the Kyrie Irving relationship was the worst in the last year since that made them go from contender to pretender. While the Suns lost Eric Bledsoe? So they went from a lottery team to a worse lottery team, not a big deal. I don't think that compares, especially since his agent is Rich Paul and most people know what a headache he is. We're in a slump as a team but I don't think many people outside of AZ view the Suns as a "laughingstock". I think Suns fans were spoiled by how Jerry ran things for so long, keeping the team competitive year in and year out. They never missed the playoffs for more than a year at a time, except with the drug scandal in the 80's and now they've missed them for 8 consecutive years.

No high profile coaching candidates refused to meet with the Suns. Things didn't work with Budenholzer, they didn't work for him in Atlanta either. Not every partnership is perfect. He is a guy who only won 3 more games than the Suns did last year. I know he's better than that but how much better? That's questionable. He's not good enough to hurt our reputation by not accepting our offer. We don't even know if an offer was made, it was only said he removed himself from consideration so things didn't mesh. Some coaches don't mesh with certain front offices or owners.

Booker is happy to be a Sun, so is Jackson. We don't have rookies dreading being drafted by us. With quality young talent, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. How long it takes to get to it is questionable but a good draft pick and coaching hire should have us in position to be back in the playoffs within 2 years. Using this year to build chemistry and develop players a bit more before trying to fill those holes with the cap space we should have and then make a strong playoff push.

You’re likely the leader of a small (very small) pack of contrarians on this point.

I think it is more "middle-of-the-roaders". There are negative issues with Sarver that are clear, but there seems also to be a lot of conjecture and accusation that goes well beyond the facts. Accuracy is a thing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Luka Doncic Won't Have Individual Workouts With Teams

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So. Do you draft a guy #1 or #2 who won't work out for you? What is he trying to hide?

 

[Chaplin]

So. Do you draft a guy #1 or #2 who won't work out for you? What is he trying to hide?

Other than being unable to tailor the workout, is there really something to "hide" if the guy is instead playing in actual games with opponents?

I know people are just trying to find everything and anything to say bad about the kid, but come on. I think the key word here is "individual".

 

[elindholm]

Other than being unable to tailor the workout, is there really something to "hide" if the guy is instead playing in actual games with opponents?

He's hiding whether he can match up against other elite draft prospects. It may not be intentional, but that will definitely be the effect.

The Suns really need to steer clear of this guy. Everything about him screams Fraud.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Other than being unable to tailor the workout, is there really something to "hide" if the guy is instead playing in actual games with opponents?

I know people are just trying to find everything and anything to say bad about the kid, but come on. I think the key word here is "individual".

Of course you are right, I was just enjoying a little conspiracy for a moment. Other prospects do this. If I was the Suns though, I would want to see a workout somewhere and against other players.

 

[Chaplin]

Of course you are right, I was just enjoying a little conspiracy for a moment. Other prospects do this. If I was the Suns though, I would want to see a workout somewhere and against other players.

I can't disagree with that. And to be honest, I'm back and forth on Doncic--I like him as a top 4 pick, but not sure I like him as a top 2, even if we end up hiring Koskokov.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I can't disagree with that. And to be honest, I'm back and forth on Doncic--I like him as a top 4 pick, but not sure I like him as a top 2, even if we end up hiring Koskokov.

I think hiring Kokoskov would be a benefit for us. If anyone would know if Doncic is over-hyped, or has attitude issues or whatever, it would be him. He is not going to want Doncic just because he had him on his team. Kokoskov knows the NBA skill level and he knows Doncic as well as anyone. If Doncic is a fraud, he will be the first to say stay away from him.

 

[Chaplin]

I think hiring Kokoskov would be a benefit for us. If anyone would know if Doncic is over-hyped, or has attitude issues or whatever, it would be him. He is not going to want Doncic just because he had him on his team. Kokoskov knows the NBA skill level and he knows Doncic as well as anyone. If Doncic is a fraud, he will be the first to say stay away from him.

Hope you're right, although from what I've read around the web, a Koskokov hire might also mean a Doncic draft.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Luka Doncic Won't Have Individual Workouts With Teams

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My overhyped meter just ticked up another notch.

Excuses for him holding out coming in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it is more "middle-of-the-roaders". There are negative issues with Sarver that are clear, but there seems also to be a lot of conjecture and accusation that goes well beyond the facts. Accuracy is a thing.

So you thinks it’s more likely that Bud wasn’t the first choice? He says definite overly “Bud wasn’t the first choice”. That’s the only item I really meant to comment upon. Too lazy to delete the rest of his quotes post.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Everything about him screams Fraud.

Really? He’s playing on the second biggest stage in the world. Are all his teammates and international leagues in on the fraud? Cmon E . . .

Look, I don’t like that he won’t work out for teams. But it’s not like he’s the first highly projected prospect to refuse to do so. It’s unfortunately become common to either not workout or not do combined workouts where you can be pitted directly against your competition (didn’t a lot of last years top prospects refuse to do that?)