2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[SirStefan32]

Good freaking God... I’ve said OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN that his CEILING IS ROBINSON. That’s BEST CASE SCENARIO.

Do you REALLY think in the best case scenario that Doncic could be not only the next Magic but ALSO have a better chance to be that then Ayton’s Robinson? Doncic doesn’t have Magic size or speed to do that. At the very worst, Ayton has those things in common with Robinson.

But you’re on record above saying he can NEVER be a David Robinson? That’s just beyond silly. He’s got all the tools to be that good but It will be dependent on a great coach and himself to get him to that level. To say he’ll never be that player is literally baseless exaggerated claims:

And FFS... Stop trying to turn EVERY DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS INTO ABSOLUTES by projecting arguments on me because it fits the narrative you want to argue against. I’ve NEVER said he’s David Robinson. I’ve consistently said he’s got the tools to be and is best case scenario. There is actually a difference. It’s a best case scenario projection. Not what is right now.

So please, for the sake of argument and civility on the board stop twisting and outright lying about what I post.

You are pleading for civility? That's rich.
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3043933/
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3667347/

I could go on, but for the sake of civility, I won't.

You literally said that Ayton could be David Robinson in the post I quoted. Sure, Doncic could be a Magic Johnson. Those "Could be" arguments are meaningless. Doncic COULD be the next Magic Johnson, Young COULD be the next Steph Curry, etc. It's meaningless.

Also...
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3680516/
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3652516/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ah, sorry. I saw Ayton's "floor" as being KAT, which I completely disagree with. What is your definition of "floor"? I always thought it meant the player could be at least as good as... his floor. But he potentially can hit his ceiling. So Ayton's floor might be more of a poor man's DeAndre Jordan while his ceiling could be Robinson.

I think we'd all be happy if we got Ayton and he ended up at least as good as KAT.

Its a good discussion. Ayton, right now, is a significantly better offensive player than DeAndre Jordan. We agree on the definition of "floor" we just don't agree on what that is for Ayton. I just think that, barring injury, there is no way we would end up disappointed with Ayton.

 

[SirStefan32]

Greg Monroe is Ayton's floor.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Greg Monroe is Ayton's floor.

If the Suns finally win the lottery and draft Ayton to be their superstar center, only to have him turn into the second coming of Greg Monroe, I give up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How about just listing what we believe is the floor of each of these players? Only active player comparisons. Not all the skill sets are going to overlap so I just compared position with position.

Ayton: KAT, but stronger
Bagley: Aaron Gordon
Doncic: Gordon Hayward (I am being generous on the floor here)
Bamba: Gobert
Michael Porter: Brandon Ingram (?) if healthy
Young: Jeff Teague

IMO it should look more like this:

Ayton: Almost KAT level, but gets moved around down low too easy.
Bagley: Bagley's floor is a little higher than Gordon's but his likely ceiling isn't all that much higher than his floor.
Doncic: No idea.
Bamba: Gobert? Not a chance. I'd put his ceiling somewhere around Gobert's floor.
Porter: No idea.
Young: I'd say Trae's floor is higher than Teague's best season and by quite a bit. IMO, he will be ROY and will average above 20/10 for most of his career (assuming good health).

 

[Chaplin]

Greg Monroe is Ayton's floor.

That’s a good one actually. Depressing but good.

 

[SirStefan32]

If the Suns finally win the lottery and draft Ayton to be their superstar center, only to have him turn into the second coming of Greg Monroe, I give up.

In fairness, he moves quite a bit better than Monroe, and is longer than Monroe, so maybe I am wrong. What worries me about Ayton is that he doesn't play defense. Again, that's fine- Amare couldn't guard a broken chair, and he was a great player for the Suns. I just get annoyed at various comparisons that involve a good defensive center.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Greg Monroe is Ayton's floor.

Maybe but IMO Monroe is one of those rare players who doesn't even play to his supposed floor. The guy has incredible hands and great footwork, there is no reason for him to be such a liability out there. But if you watch him run down the court on D, often times it's just a casual Sunday stroll though the park. No way will Ayton give that kind of effort.

 

[AzStevenCal]

In fairness, he moves quite a bit better than Monroe, and is longer than Monroe, so maybe I am wrong. What worries me about Ayton is that he doesn't play defense. Again, that's fine- Amare couldn't guard a broken chair, and he was a great player for the Suns. I just get annoyed at various comparisons that involve a good defensive center.

That's really an overstatement. He makes a lot of errors on D but he does play defense. Sometimes, he plays excellent defense although he never plays it to the David Robinson level. I worry less about his motor and more about his understanding but Sean Miller says he's coachable so that's a big part of the battle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How about just listing what we believe is the floor of each of these players? Only active player comparisons. Not all the skill sets are going to overlap so I just compared position with position.

Ayton: KAT, but stronger
Bagley: Aaron Gordon
Doncic: Gordon Hayward (I am being generous on the floor here)
Bamba: Gobert
Michael Porter: Brandon Ingram (?) if healthy
Young: Jeff Teague

Wow you think those are the FLOORS for these guys???

 

[pokerface]

I think Bagley would probably be there with the 4th pick. It would be tough between Young and Bamba. Making that selection is really above my pay grade. It is tough.

I kind of assume the top three will be Ayton, Doncic, and Bagley. That isn't stone but the most likely scenario.

Between Young and Bamba at #4. I'm going with Young because I feel he's less likely to bust.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would not be enthusiastic about drafting Greg Monroe. He is a nice offensive player but his defense is suspect. I saw all I wanted to see when he played for the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

I kind of assume the top three will be Ayton, Doncic, and Bagley. That isn't stone but the most likely scenario.

Between Young and Bamba at #4. I'm going with Young because I feel he's less likely to bust.

Right now I would list the top four as Ayton, Bagley, Doncic and Young. However, I see a trade in there somewhere.

 

[Raindog]

I would not be enthusiastic about drafting Greg Monroe. He is a nice offensive player but his defense is suspect. I seen all I wanted to see when he played for the Suns.

Ayton is not likely to turn out as Greg Monroe. Monroe moves like he's wearing concrete shoes. Ayton is far more agile than that, and certainly has the physical ability to dominate on defense if he's coached into it.

I think Ayton's floor is more likely to be Dwight Howard - a great physical specimen who ends up being a somewhat one-dimensional underachiever. Of course, where Howard's one dimension is rebounding/defense, Ayton's would be the opposite - he will flourish on offense, but not be the defensive presence he should be.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton is not likely to turn out as Greg Monroe. Monroe moves like he's wearing concrete shoes. Ayton is far more agile than that, and certainly has the physical ability to dominate on defense if he's coached into it.

I think Ayton's floor is more likely to be Dwight Howard - a great physical specimen who ends up being a somewhat one-dimensional underachiever. Of course, where Howard's one dimension is rebounding/defense, Ayton's would be the opposite - he will flourish on offense, but not be the defensive presence he should be.

Just saying I don't want Ayton's floor at #1 if it is Greg Monroe. LOL

I'd rather have a player with a higher floor.

That said, I see Ayton's floor as much higher. I understand he is a great leaper.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a link to the list of the players that will participate in the NBA Draft Combine:

Oklahoma guard Trae Young, Alabama guard Collin Sexton, Duke forward Marvin Bagley III, Texas center Mohamed Bamba and Missouri forward Michael Porter Jr. headline the complete 2018 NBA Draft Combine list that was sent to all 30 teams and was obtained Friday by Yahoo Sports.

The combine will be held in Chicago from May 16-20.

Arizona forward DeAndre Ayton, Real Madrid forward Luka Doncic. Texas A&M center Robert Williams and Dzanan Musa of Croatian club Cedevita are the top prospects who are skipping the combine. Doncic is currently playing in the Euroleague playoffs.

Shams Charania
Yahoo SportsMay 4, 2018, 2:18 PM

https://sports.yahoo.com/complete-2018-nba-draft-combine-list-211843026.html


I'm especially glad to see Young, Bamba and Bagley participating.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just saying I don't want Ayton's floor at #1 if it is Greg Monroe. LOL

I'd rather have a player with a higher floor.

That said, I see Ayton's floor as much higher. I understand he is a great leaper.

He’s not only a better leaper, but he runs the floor much much better. I think that is a truly atrocious comparison floor wise.

Trying to think who his floor would be... hmmm...

 

[Cheesebeef]

He’s not only a better leaper, but he runs the floor much much better. I think that is a truly atrocious comparison floor wise.

Trying to think who his floor would be... hmmm...

First thought is I think his floor will be the bizarro version of Deandre Jordan, very good scorer/rebounder but gives you very little on D.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would not be enthusiastic about drafting Greg Monroe. He is a nice offensive player but his defense is suspect. I saw all I wanted to see when he played for the Suns.

He has all of Monroe's skills but his physical profile significantly better. Better leaper, speed, strength, everything. His floor is above Monroe IMO. Way above it.

 

[Mainstreet]

He’s not only a better leaper, but he runs the floor much much better. I think that is a truly atrocious comparison floor wise.

Trying to think who his floor would be... hmmm...

This stuff has already been discussed today.

How about Jusuf Nurkic as the floor. LOL

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok... here’s what I think Ayton’s floor is:

A slightly more athletic Brad Daughtery (pre knee injuries) or Vlade Divac, but not as good a passer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This stuff has already been discussed today.

Lol... this stuff has been discussed for MONTHS.

 

[Mainstreet]

He has all of Monroe's skills but his physical profile significantly better. Better leaper, speed, strength, everything. His floor is above Monroe IMO. Way above it.

I put Ayton's floor above Monroe no doubt. He has a lot of upside.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok... here’s what I think Ayton’s floor is:

A slightly more athletic Brad Daughtery (pre knee injuries) or Vlade Divac, but not as good a passer.

You are hilarious. Why don't you just say a post draft week Len Bias?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You are hilarious. Why don't you just say a post draft week Len Bias?

Wha? I’m lost why a) I’m hilarious and b) you think I compared Ayton to a dead guy?

Explain. Super confused here.