2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[DevonCardsFan]

Hedo was a point forward in Orlando. He wasn't anywhere else that he played though. He was a good point forward in Orlando also, good enough to get a big contract from the Raptors that he never lived up to. They traded him here and we ended up sending him back to Orlando. It's not that the Suns or Raptors didn't try to use him the same as Orlando but that system Van Gundy ran down there worked perfectly for him. I can see the comparison but you'd have to be looking at one stretch of Hedo's career, not the entirety. Two stretches, actually, because he played like he never left for the Magic even though he was gone for 2 seasons.

Some players are only efficient in certain situations though. It's not common but it does happen. Like Lance Stephenson, he was a good wing for the Pacers for a few years but then he decided to chase the money and signed with to Charlotte. He wasn't able to produce there and bounced around the league for a couple of seasons with stops in LA for the Clippers, Memphis, Minnesota, and New Orleans. He was cut twice last year because he wasn't any good. He resigned with the Pacers towards the end of the year and he started playing like the Lance Stephenson of old. It wasn't a short-term thing either, he played well for them all season this year. For some reason he only plays to his potential as a Pacer.

Your defining more of a role he played in Orlando, than his actual game it's a weak Comparison. I am in NorCal and by Sac and watched 90 pct of Hedos Sac games, and he does not have the creativity and court vision Luka has, not even close, Luka is alot more creative around the rim and can attack off the dribble. He may have played a role in Orlando as a point foreward but he's 6 10, him and Doncic don't have the same game. I still say a bad comparison, I'll stick to Doncic is very close with Walt Williams and his skillset

 

[GatorAZ]

Not liking these comps for Ayton/Doncic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not liking these comps for Ayton/Doncic.

Yeah. I don't see the Hedo comp.

 

[rocker]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

Interesting. Welcome, and thanks for posting that.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

This is great! Do you happen to have a link to the source material?

 

[rocker]

Just for fun... On the left is Saša Dončić, Luka's father, back in Union Olimpija. Guess you know who is on the right.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is great! Do you happen to have a link to the source material?

I keep trying to post a link, but it converts it to a video instead.

www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

 

[rocker]

This is great! Do you happen to have a link to the source material?

Text is from Facebook of P3. If I add here the link only shows the video, but not the text below it

 

[Mainstreet]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

Please keep posting. It's nice to hear from you!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Text is from Facebook of P3. If I add here the link only shows the video, but not the text below it

Finally figured it out.

www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think our needs move Doncic off the top line for us but I won't be surprised if any of Doncic, Ayton, Young, JJJ, Porter or Bagley end up being the pre-eminent player from this class. Nor will I be surprised if all of them end up as all stars in the NBA.

 

[SirStefan32]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for posting that. I had not seen that, but it is consistent with what I've seen from watching him play. He is a strong kid and by no means does he lack athleticism as much as some people would have us believe.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Text is from Facebook of P3. If I add here the link only shows the video, but not the text below it

Great contribution. Obviously, P3 benefits from pushing this in a positive light, but this is a really nice addition to the conversation. Welcome to the board!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cheers to all, new here There's a interesting text regarding Doncic athleticism

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8’9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBAguards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka’s ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we’ve assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He’s become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they’ve improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He’s good now, he’s still getting better, and he’s well within his physical development window!

This sounds good. But I have no idea what most of it means. And if y’all are being honest, neither do you. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out tomorrow the entire post was made up. I’m not actually making that allegation, but that’s just about how ridiculous the “technical” jargon is.

 

[Phrazbit]

Simmons is faster and bigger.

That said about Simmons... dude HAS to learn how to shoot. Right now he’s like 6’10 Ason Kidd.

That's probably giving Simmons too much credit. Kidd started off a terrible outside shooter but rapidly evolved into being solid and eventually great from 3.

It is hard to see Simmons making that leap given that he has only attempted 11 3 pointers and that the next one he makes will be his first successful one... literally... ever.

And I don't think it's merely in his head. Given his terrible FT shooting, I suspect he is destined to be a terrible shooter.

I would guess, eventually, the Sixers will get a different point guard and Simmons will become a true point forward. A much much better Lamar Odom (whom I think if not for the drugs would have become a HOFer)... except in the shooting department.

 

[rocker]

This sounds good. But I have no idea what most of it means. And if y’all are being honest, neither do you. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out tomorrow the entire post was made up. I’m not actually making that allegation, but that’s just about how ridiculous the “technical” jargon is.

This is the jargon used by experts. It means that this teenager is not an average athlete.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is the jargon used by experts. It means that this teenager is not an average athlete.

Saying he measures somewhere around the 70th percentile in a combination of body profile and athleticism among NBA guards tested. Not sure this is nba guards in general. It is also saying that his body is still immature and his athleticism is still improving. These measurements were taken a year ago.

 

[rocker]

I do see this as a legitimate piece of the hype, if not the entire reason for it. I also think that the notion of finding some sports prodigy out in the hinterlands of Eastern Europe or wherever makes for a great story for sports columnists, and that is another reason he is getting a lot of media hype - stories about kids from Cuba who can throw 120 mph fastballs, or that latest Japanese baseball phenom are in a similar vein. It makes for good copy.

I personally don't care whether he is white or black. The thing I am most skeptical about is the claim that his success in the Euro League some how makes him a better prospect than any of the college players. I think that is, in a word, poppycock. The European League may indeed be the second best professional league in the world, but by no means does that mean it is loaded with talent that is anywhere comparable to the NBA. This is propaganda that has been proliferated in recent years on the internet by European fans and pundits. Yes, the quality of homegrown talent has improved over there compared to what it was in the 1980s or 1990s. And no, it is not still anywhere close to the NBA.

So Luka Doncic's alleged "wunderkind" status doesn't mean much to me when I consider that someone like Sonny Weems also tore up the Euro League, and then came over here and couldn't even last one season as a twelfth man for a bad Suns team. Trying to make some kind of one-to-one comparison between success in both leagues (as many of Doncic's exponents are doing) needs to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

I guess it would be one thing if he was putting up unprecedented monster numbers over there, like 40/15 pg or something like that. Then maybe you consider that he is another once in a lifetime type talent who is just beyond all the competition wherever he is playing at the moment. Or if you watch game footage of him and he is just steamrolling everyone, NBA Jam style. But nothing of the sort is the case. So as far as I am concerned, he is just another shot-in-the-dark kid from Europe, as equally likely to flop as succeed. And again, watching him in video highlights on YouTube makes me think his lack of extraordinary physical talent is going to cancel out any intangibles once he gets over here. Hence, there is no way I would take him over at the very least Ayton and Bagley, and probably a couple more guys if I really thought about it.

If the Suns do end up taking him, I will of course hope for the best outcome. But if they take him one or even two, I think they will end up regretting it in the long run.

“Doncic is just another shot-in-the-dark kid from Europe”


I’m from Europe and of course, NBA is by far the world's finest, most competitive and spectacular basketball league in the world. That’s why we love it.

By saying you would consider him taking over college guys only if he puts 40points in Euroleague means that Euroleague is kindergarten to NCAA. Of course, that’s not the case, you know that 80% of college kids (same age as Doncic) will never play pro basketball. If he was playing in NCAA he would achieve triple-doubles on regular bases. I see you’re you laughing, but that’s ok


The other thing is your statement “...some sports prodigy out in the hinterlands of Eastern Europe…” This is quite humiliating statement for an area proven to be the biggest pool of talented basketball players outside the US, for decades. Your new coach is from this area.


Personally I would like that Doncic goes to a team where they will be able to work with him and develop him to the highest level, he still has reserves. Like every 19 year old kid. Yes, Kokoskov is the perfect coach for that, proven. I always say that there are two Luka’s, one played under Kokoskov in FIBA 2017 and the other one playing under Real Madrid coach Pablo Laso. And the first Luka is better. But I'm also convinced that Kokoskov is not the only expert in NBA for this task.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It would be interesting to do a study taking every European taken in the draft over the last 15 years. And then measuring their level of success by some decent standard. Maybe it would be a combination of games played, games started, all-star appearances, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, etc. Then do the same for non-Euros drafted. It would be a massive project. But, in the end I bet the success/fail rate would be about the same for both.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It would be interesting to do a study taking every European taken in the draft over the last 15 years. And then measuring their level of success by some decent standard. Maybe it would be a combination of games played, games started, all-star appearances, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, etc. Then do the same for non-Euros drafted. It would be a massive project. But, in the end I bet the success/fail rate would be about the same for both.

It would be difficult to normalize due to a number of factors such as the age the foreign talent comes over, how many peak years they have left, etc.

But I was thinking about this myself the other day. Thinking of dividing it up into tiers like top 10 picks, mid-first round, end first round and 2nd rounders. I don’t think it would be necessary to dive into a deep algorithm either. I think it would be pretty easy to test on eyeballs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Then do the same for non-Euros drafted. It would be a massive project. But, in the end I bet the success/fail rate would be about the same for both.

My guess, the fail rate would be higher for high lotto Euro picks. Although I think that if we were to do it from now going forward, I doubt there'd be much of a difference. We screwed up drafting Bender in the top 5, we simply did not have enough true (relevant) game situations to judge him on. That was all too true 10 and 20 years ago for most international prospects but I believe that's mostly a problem of the past. No research on my part, just my opinion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My guess, the fail rate would be higher for high lotto Euro picks. Although I think that if we were to do it from now going forward, I doubt there'd be much of a difference. We screwed up drafting Bender in the top 5, we simply did not have enough true (relevant) game situations to judge him on. That was all too true 10 and 20 years ago for most international prospects but I believe that's mostly a problem of the past. No research on my part, just my opinion.

I don’t think bender has anything to do with him being a euro then. It’s the same as drafting a Michael porter. We only have his high school resume to work from.

And I’m unsure your assumption would come out correct. Yes the skita darko hezonja (so far) and benders (so far) exist. But so do the pau nowitzki, Bargnani (he’s not the star people expected but he’s far from a bust) as well. I think the Americans seem to bust less because there are so many stars, but in the scheme of things so many more of them are drafted. So I think in a percentage play I’d think they come out relatively close.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would be interesting to do a study taking every European taken in the draft over the last 15 years. And then measuring their level of success by some decent standard. Maybe it would be a combination of games played, games started, all-star appearances, points, rebounds, assists, blocks, etc. Then do the same for non-Euros drafted. It would be a massive project. But, in the end I bet the success/fail rate would be about the same for both.

I think an argument could be made the Euro League is improving every year. Nothing to back it up but I think Euro basketball is only growing stronger as time passes.

I guess what I am trying to say is going back 15 years puts them at a disadvantage for comparison sake.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the key difference is that most European players have been getting drafted based on potential. Bender, I believe, will turn out to be a good player, but when he was drafted, he was a bench warmer in Europe. Doncic is a legitimate star in Europe right now. That's the difference between youngsters who get drafted now and back in the day when guys like Kukoc and Divac were European stars. Doncic is not getting drafted based on potential. He is getting drafted because he is a proven commodity.