2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[GatorAZ]

That Nova club was freaking loaded.

The best team I can remember since 05’ UNC.

 

[Cheesebeef]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1393381/luka-doncic-phoenix-suns-nba-draft-2018/

Another Doncic article.


Just going to say something and try to let it go. There really is no bad pick in this talented draft. Ayton is a unicorn and freak that would be hard to deny as #1... Bagley would surely fit right in with the suns and give us what we need and crave...a stat stuffing big man. He is what we wanted out of Chriss. Its almost insane passing on Bagley considering what this team needs.

But then there is Doncic...the luxury exotic pick that is hard to classify. Is he a point guard?...yes and no. He has great passing abilities and court vision but works better not being the sole/primary ball handler. Is he athletic? Not particulary...but athletic enough to be a stat stuffer across the board. He knows how to play and where to position himself. I think though why it's hard for me to pass on Doncic are numerous reasons...Flat out I'm going to say I think his game would be transformational on the suns...on himself and on the team. I think the team would run smoother and with more direction. I think Luka would be the glue like Steve Nash was. Doncic is a smart skilled player with some Kobe clutchness and a strong desire to win. Can we say that about Ayton or Bagley? Doncic has already played at the highest levels in Europe and is already a veteran at his young age. He's battled tested and has produced. He already has some polish to his game...far from being a project. I also think by having Doncic, Booker, and Jackson our free agent problems with be a thing of the past. I think we could attract a big that would want to play with that group.

Just a gut feeling and it may sound crazy but I think Doncic someday will trancend the game. I'm actually afraid for the suns to pass on him...it would be a big big mistake IMO.

If true he's better off ball as you say, how can be he be a Steve Nash-like glue guy when the reason Nash was that glue was because he was one of the best pure PGs ever to play the game.

I mean, you just described him above as a man without a position, a jack of all trades, with limited athletic ability. That doesn't say transcendent player to me. That says intriguing prospect with high bust potential.

 

[pokerface]

If true he's better off ball as you say, how can be he be a Steve Nash-like glue guy when the reason Nash was that glue was because he was one of the best pure PGs ever to play the game.

I mean, you just described him above as a man without a position, a jack of all trades, with limited athletic ability. That doesn't say transcendent player to me. That says intriguing prospect with high bust potential.

He and Booker could share duties as co-point guards. That not only seems doable but a potentially lethal duo.

I think Steve Nash transcended the game but wasn't the most athletic player in the world. I think Doncic has a similar game to his...with similar strengths and weeknesses.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If true he's better off ball as you say, how can be he be a Steve Nash-like glue guy when the reason Nash was that glue was because he was one of the best pure PGs ever to play the game.

I mean, you just described him above as a man without a position, a jack of all trades, with limited athletic ability. That doesn't say transcendent player to me. That says intriguing prospect with high bust potential.

I have a hunch this debate is going to go on for years.

 

[pokerface]

I have a hunch this debate is going to go on for years.

Well...it may not go past May 15th...the day the ping pong balls deceide our position. I feel if we get the #1 or #3 picks there won't be much debate. If we get the #2 pick sparks might fly around here.

 

[BC867]

He and Booker could share duties as co-point guards. That not only seems doable but a potentially lethal duo.

Didn't Booker's injuries begin when he had to cover the Point Guard position?

Is anyone else concerned that if we plan him to be our part-time Point Guard, we are going to lose what he is becoming -- one of the best Shooting Guards.

 

[Hoop Head]

What about all this talk from ppl that Chriss and Bender are so young and "bigs" take longer to develop...was that all bs??

Bigs do generally take longer to develop. Bender and Chriss have been so disappointing in their 2nd year that they should not be penciled in for more than 15-20 minutes a night as backups and to hope the light comes on for them and stays on. Until then, we should not let their presence stop us from acquiring better talent at PF and Center.

The best player available after Ayton is Doncic....not Bagley. Yeah work them out but Doncics credentials makes him more bpa IMO. He's had more years producing in tougher competitions. Ayton is unicorn and I'll give him a pass that I wouldn't give Bagley as far as overall experience

So I hear no mention about Chandler. Does he get benched for the season to make room for the logjam in the frontcourt?

Chandler goes to the bench, if he's even kept on the team. He should have gone to the bench this year but Len isn't good enough to take the starting job from him. It wouldn't surprise anyone if Chandler is moved to clear salary for free agency this summer. Yes, his presence as a veteran leader is helpful but having another $12 million in free agency would be more useful for the team going forward. Since the Suns plan on being aggressive in free agency this summer now is the time to try and free up as much money as possible to turn this team around. If he were more of a rim protector when he's on the floor he may have more value to the Suns but he's not. He's been around our young players long enough, he was with our young bigs for 2 seasons, that should be sufficient. You can't baby them forever. It's time they stand on their own 2 feet. Our other players are becoming veterans and leaders now, it's time for Booker to lead.

Maybe part of the problem with Chriss and Bender is crappy coaches and crappy point guards that don't get them the ball in good places.

Perhaps playing with subpar PG's has hurt Chriss and Bender some but I don't think that has hurt them as much as their overall games have. Bender is too timid and Chriss doesn't think enough. PG play has nothing to do with those issues. Coaching may play a role but I think that's only slowed their development down rather than bringing it to a screeching halt. Chriss has regressed compared to last season and has only worked his way into shape for the last 10-15 games of this season. Bender has been given plenty of playing time but does nothing with it. You can't blame coaches or point guard play for that. Would they do more with better coaching? Perhaps, but they wouldn't magically morph into quality starters overnight. They're both projects and that was known when they were drafted. The Suns should not have put them in a position where the team needed them to be contributors right away. That isn't the reason they're both struggling at the end of their 2nd seasons though. If anything that should have kickstarted their development. They were thrown into the deep end and rather than learning to swim they've doggy paddled to the side of the pool and seem to be afraid to let go. It's time to push them back into the middle and let them drown if they can't figure out what to do.

 

[pokerface]

Didn't Booker's injuries begin when he had to cover the Point Guard position?

Is anyone else concerned that if we plan him to be our part-time Point Guard, we are going to lose what he is becoming -- one of the best Shooting Guards.

Well whom would we rather have the ball than Booker? Besides, the NBA has become positionless more or less. That's what makes Doncic more a player for today's style game.

 

[pokerface]

Bigs do generally take longer to develop. Bender and Chriss have been so disappointing in their 2nd year that they should not be penciled in for more than 15-20 minutes a night as backups and to hope the light comes on for them and stays on. Until then, we should not let their presence stop us from acquiring better talent at PF and Center.



Chandler goes to the bench, if he's even kept on the team. He should have gone to the bench this year but Len isn't good enough to take the starting job from him. It wouldn't surprise anyone if Chandler is moved to clear salary for free agency this summer. Yes, his presence as a veteran leader is helpful but having another $12 million in free agency would be more useful for the team going forward. Since the Suns plan on being aggressive in free agency this summer now is the time to try and free up as much money as possible to turn this team around. If he were more of a rim protector when he's on the floor he may have more value to the Suns but he's not. He's been around our young players long enough, he was with our young bigs for 2 seasons, that should be sufficient. You can't baby them forever. It's time they stand on their own 2 feet. Our other players are becoming veterans and leaders now, it's time for Booker to lead.



Perhaps playing with subpar PG's has hurt Chriss and Bender some but I don't think that has hurt them as much as their overall games have. Bender is too timid and Chriss doesn't think enough. PG play has nothing to do with those issues. Coaching may play a role but I think that's only slowed their development down rather than bringing it to a screeching halt. Chriss has regressed compared to last season and has only worked his way into shape for the last 10-15 games of this season. Bender has been given plenty of playing time but does nothing with it. You can't blame coaches or point guard play for that. Would they do more with better coaching? Perhaps, but they wouldn't magically morph into quality starters overnight. They're both projects and that was known when they were drafted. The Suns should not have put them in a position where the team needed them to be contributors right away. That isn't the reason they're both struggling at the end of their 2nd seasons though. If anything that should have kickstarted their development. They were thrown into the deep end and rather than learning to swim they've doggy paddled to the side of the pool and seem to be afraid to let go. It's time to push them back into the middle and let them drown if they can't figure out what to do.

Chriss and Bender have shown flashes enough to at least give them a fighting chance with a new coach and a team mate that can enhance their games. Yeah they have their own issues and they may not pan out but I still contend Bagley would quash their games...unlike Doncic. It just seems fans have given up on Bender and Chriss or why else would they want Bagley so much? Maybe deservedly so they get blame but as stated by all numerous times they are young and bigs take longer to develop.

 

[DWKB]

Coach k in jan:

"He's the most unique player we've had here at Duke during my 38 years," says Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski. "He has everything. In some respects, Kyrie [Irving] was like that. But Kyrie got hurt after eight games."

"He is not a good runner; he's an amazing runner. And then he's an amazing repeated jumper. In other words, he doesn't really take time to even land, he just pops right back up. He wants to learn, he has no demons, he's a great kid, he's smart, and has an incredible motor. He never has a bad day. He's a treasure, really. He's going to be one of the great players in the NBA during his time."

The athletic stuff he describes is not debateable, watch the video it's obvious.

This sounds like a description of Andrew Wiggins, which Bagley III reminds me of in PF form. I expect Bagley to fill up some stat sheets on a bad team, but ultimately not be the guy you rely on to make your team better.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

This sounds like a description of Andrew Wiggins, which Bagley III reminds me of in PF form. I expect Bagley to fill up some stat sheets on a bad team, but ultimately not be the guy you rely on to make your team better.

The "wants to learn" part is the key to me. Bagley in current form, I agree with your assessment. If he can continue to learn and improve and apply that athleticism in the right way? That's very, very intriguing to me.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

The best player available after Ayton is Doncic....not Bagley. Yeah work them out but Doncics credentials makes him more bpa IMO. He's had more years producing in tougher competitions. Ayton is unicorn and I'll give him a pass that I wouldn't give Bagley as far as overall experience

So I hear no mention about Chandler. Does he get benched for the season to make room for the logjam in the frontcourt?

Maybe part of the problem with Chriss and Bender is crappy coaches and crappy point guards that don't get them the ball in good places.

Chandler is Ancient, Chriss lacks the drive to be good and Bender is a puss who wants to jack 3's.

Most trades are considered a good trade when you get big for small. The 4 and 5, are harder to land than wings and PGs. Doncic I worry will have a much harder, transformation to the NBA. I dont think he will be garbage, but I think he will only be 4th best player on the Suns. I am hoping for the Suns to get 1 or to fall to 3, or 4. Give me Bagley, Porter I want a 4 or 5 on the team

 

[DevonCardsFan]

What about all this talk from ppl that Chriss and Bender are so young and "bigs" take longer to develop...was that all bs??

YES! Chriss was a raw project and Bender too, both aren't anyone you build a roster around. Hopefully a sucker sees some potential and they can be packaged in a move up

 

[Chaplin]

YES! Chriss was a raw project and Bender too, both aren't anyone you build a roster around. Hopefully a sucker sees some potential and they can be packaged in a move up

With this coaching staff, Chriss and Bender weren't being developed at all! Give them a new coach with a new philosophy, and maybe they can develop. It's almost going to be like starting over with those guys.

 

[SirStefan32]

Come on man, you don't just give up on the the youngsters. You certainly don't want to pass on a big man because you have the two youngsters already, but you don't give up on them either.

 

[Russ Smith]

This sounds like a description of Andrew Wiggins, which Bagley III reminds me of in PF form. I expect Bagley to fill up some stat sheets on a bad team, but ultimately not be the guy you rely on to make your team better.

Certainly his history until now agrees with you. Like Fultz last year, Bagley has put up great stats on some teams that underwhelmed. Duke was good this year but I think preseason before Bagley, many thought Duke was top 5, then Bagley amazingly cleared academically a year early(still no idea how that happened) and it was like Duke is unreal.

Now I would argue Carter was as good as advertised, Bagley was, the 2 guards the PG was better than I thought, the SG not as good. So why wasn't Duke as good as expected, after adding a top 3 draft pick?

Bagley is a good passer, I think the main issue with him is his defense, wasn't good at all in college, not clear who he'll guard in the NBA.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Certainly his history until now agrees with you. Like Fultz last year, Bagley has put up great stats on some teams that underwhelmed. Duke was good this year but I think preseason before Bagley, many thought Duke was top 5, then Bagley amazingly cleared academically a year early(still no idea how that happened) and it was like Duke is unreal.

Now I would argue Carter was as good as advertised, Bagley was, the 2 guards the PG was better than I thought, the SG not as good. So why wasn't Duke as good as expected, after adding a top 3 draft pick?

Bagley is a good passer, I think the main issue with him is his defense, wasn't good at all in college, not clear who he'll guard in the NBA.

Duke wasn't as good as expected? I thought they had a great season. The tourney is a crap shoot. If you make it to the top 8 you had a great year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Any thoughts on Donte Divencenzo? The kid is mature, incredibly efficient, and an excellent defender. Can he play pg in the nba?

 

[Finito]

Any thoughts on Donte Divencenzo? The kid is mature, incredibly efficient, and an excellent defender. Can he play pg in the nba?

He's not even a starter on his college team. He got hot and that's good but I don't see NBA in his future

 

[Finito]

Doncic is what 19 and already a legit star over there this isn't some Bender or Darko type player who's all potential he's legit dominated at times the second best league in the world.

I've come down to Ayton and Doncic in this draft either of those two and im good.

 

[Finito]

With this coaching staff, Chriss and Bender weren't being developed at all! Give them a new coach with a new philosophy, and maybe they can develop. It's almost going to be like starting over with those guys.

I agree I pretty much compare it to the Browns in the NFL every year they draft at the top but there players never develop. I would really like to see Bender and Chriss with legit coaches

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He's not even a starter on his college team. He got hot and that's good but I don't see NBA in his future

TBF Booker wasn't a starter on his college team either. I don't know that DiVincenzo is a PG though and we don't necessarily need another wing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is the closest I have seen to a shot chart on Doncic. I post it here for your evaluation.


http://www.overbasket.com/rsplayers.php?tab=9&year=2017&pcode=005929&cmp=EL

So, regarding his three point shooting.

From what I can tell 5% of his shots taken have been from 9m or beyond (29.5 feet). He shot 13% from that distance.

44.8% of his shots have been from 6.75-9m (22 to 29 feet, basically the international three point line). He is 35.1% from that distance.

 

[Russ Smith]

Duke wasn't as good as expected? I thought they had a great season. The tourney is a crap shoot. If you make it to the top 8 you had a great year.

They were good but 29 wins with that roster is not that impressive IMO. 4 games out of first in the conference, and while not a terrible year in the ACC it wasn't like the league was loaded with great teams.

Preseason in June, before Bagley was cleared, Bleacher Report published a ranking that had Duke ranked 4th. in November the first AP ballot had Duke ranked 1st, before the games started, with 3/4 of the total first place votes going to Duke. They were good but honestly there wasn't any point this season where Duke looked like the best team in the country, you could make that argue for Villanova, Michigan State, Virginia, but not Duke IMO. They were just never as good as projected.

 

[Russ Smith]

TBF Booker wasn't a starter on his college team either. I don't know that DiVincenzo is a PG though and we don't necessarily need another wing.

Also the wasn't a starter thing is misleading, he played more minutes than Booth did. Booth started because Jay Wright has a system that rewards upperclassmen who put in the work. Statistically DD was a better player just about across the board.