2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Mainstreet]

Nash's play style was different, bad back or not. Dragic relies on his speed and driving ability to be productive. If you saw Tony Parker play last year that's what Dragic will look like soon. Parker is 36 and has logged a lot of playoff minutes also but he's been on the decline for years. Dragic and Parker are similar in their games as far as both being driving PG's that rely on their speed, smarts, and athleticism to get to the basket and also pass out. Dragic is a much better shooter but taking on his contract is far from ideal because of the player he'll be next year and beyond. I think we'll start seeing a decline this year but he'll opt in to his next year for sure.

Another problem with taking on his contract is how players virtually never take a significant pay cut when their skills decrease. To pay Dragic what he'd be worth on his next contract, we'd need to be a new team making an offer rather than the team he's playing on. He'll probably get close to $10 million when his current deal is up, MLE type of money, but he won't be accepting that sort of deal from the Heat. It will be him seeking more and them turning him down that sends him back onto the market in the first place.

As you point out, Nash had a finesse game so to speak. He was a very crafty player.

If the Suns get two years out of Dragic I'm fine. Hopefully the Suns will have a PG ready to take over by then. I doubt Dragic will be getting a big money contract anyway when he turns 34. I would think Dragic would be tired of moving around by then especially with Igor as the Suns head coach.

A part of attracting quality free agents is more than having money... it's winning reputation. Hopefully Dragic could get us there quicker than some lesser options.

 

[Phrazbit]

The notion that Dragic will be down to be a self sacrificing mentor flies in the face of history.

And guys that rely on quickness don't age well, he's already obviously declining.

Aaaaand, he doesn't defend or play off the ball.

 

[sunsfan88]

Even with the two years left on his contract wouldnt he be considered a bargain? He's only 33. Nash played until he was 41. Im not saying he's Nash. But he also doesnt have the back issues Steve had to deal with through out his career.
I think he would be invaluable teaching the team / potential future pg Koko's system by running the point for the next few years.
If we could rid ourselves of Chandlers and Knights contract we'd be in god shape going forward? I know its just a pipe dream but those are my thoughts.

Yeah this is definitely a good point as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

Hey, he was looking for a name. Goran ran Koko's teams in the euroleague. No reason why he cant run Koko's system now?
The Suns and Goran both F up. Cooler heads always prevail in the end. I for one would love to have him bck.

And FWIW, both McD, and Dragic have been on record saying that there’s no bad blood between the two and McD said he spoke with Goran last season and they were able to bury the hatchet.

McDonough also said he was happy to move on.

“I think what is important to realize is 95 percent of the time or 99 percent of the time he was here, we did have a good relationship,” the Suns general manager said. “The end wasn’t good and it got too public and he admits he regrets some of that, and so do I.”

http://arizonasports.com/story/1373...-helped-himself-coaching-search-goran-dragic/

And the same season after that trade happened, Dragic had already said that he spoke with Sarver and thanked him for everything and both sides explained their situations. He even said something along the lines of his issue was with Ryan and never Sarver and that Sarver’s always been good to Dragic and his family.

This idea that the Suns and Dragic hate each other is just a narrative held by clueless fans.

 

[SirStefan32]

Even with the two years left on his contract wouldnt he be considered a bargain? He's only 33. Nash played until he was 41. Im not saying he's Nash. But he also doesnt have the back issues Steve had to deal with through out his career.
I think he would be invaluable teaching the team / potential future pg Koko's system by running the point for the next few years.
If we could rid ourselves of Chandlers and Knights contract we'd be in god shape going forward? I know its just a pipe dream but those are my thoughts.

I am a big Dragic fan. That said, he relies on speed and agility to be successful. Nash was a different type of a player. He was never all that quick, so his aging process didn't bother him as much, until his body was just so broken down that he literally couldn't play. As someone pointed out, Parker is a better analogy. Now, for the next year or even two, I think he will be fine, but the Suns would be tying up their money into an aging point guard with a very young team. I just don't know how they bring in his replacement/ successor if his salary is on the books. So in two years, they will have no point guard again. This is the sakme problem with George Hill, for example, though his contract may not be guaranteed next year.

I like the team with Dragic running the point for the next year or two, but I just don't see how the Suns balance that out with bringing in the next point guard. Sure, if they can turn Knight into Dragic, I am all for it, but I don't see how they do that.

And again- I really like Goran. He is an awesome dude, and I would love to see him retire as a Sun, but I just don't see how you can bring him in now without hurting yourself long-term.

 

[Phrazbit]

I know a lot of people love Dragic and have a soft spot for him in Suns history...

However, if there were a different point guard who was a scorer first, not a distributor, doesn't play off the ball, a really bad defender, owed 38 million over 2 years and 32 years old... the rejection of him as a candidate here would be virtually unanimous.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Dragic is open to coming back and training his successor then I'd be for him returning but his current contract necessitates a Knight for Dragic swap to make it somewhat reasonable, financially. Stretching Knight to bring Dragic back isn't a good idea either because that $5-6 million of Knight's deal that would remain on the books would basically count against what we're paying Dragic. That money would be linked to Dragic, since we wouldn't be paying it if we didn't bring him back. Other cheaper options are available next summer. Dragic hasn't proven he's willing to take a cut financially to return or that he's ready to be a mentor. If we landed Doncic, I'd be in favor of reuniting Igor with both of them but that would be the only way I think it would have been worthwhile to bring Dragic back.

I'd rather the Suns try to sign Rubio next summer if Igor wants someone he has a history with though. He plays defense and can finally knock down 3's, thanks to Igor. I think we have a good chance of luring him away from Utah and he's already established himself as a top playmaker in the league, often finishing within the top 5 in assists per game since he's been in the NBA.

 

[Hoop Head]

I know a lot of people love Dragic and have a soft spot for him in Suns history...

However, if there were a different point guard who was a scorer first, not a distributor, doesn't play off the ball, a really bad defender, owed 38 million over 2 years and 32 years old... the rejection of him as a candidate here would be virtually unanimous.

Knight fits that description except he's been the starting PG on the #1 defensive team in the league, Milwaukee when he was there, and he's 26 years old. People here are actually advocating that the Suns eat $16 million of his contract to bring Dragic back and pay him that $38 million, which would mean Dragic is costing $54 million over 2 years. Unless there's an option to trade Knight for Dragic straight up, the whole idea needs to be buried.

 

[GatorAZ]

I know a lot of people love Dragic and have a soft spot for him in Suns history...

However, if there were a different point guard who was a scorer first, not a distributor, doesn't play off the ball, a really bad defender, owed 38 million over 2 years and 32 years old... the rejection of him as a candidate here would be virtually unanimous.

If the hypothetical player you’re describing won a Eurocup MVP and championship with our current coach but never played for the Suns we’d still be talking about him.

 

[Hoop Head]

If the hypothetical player you’re describing won a Eurocup MVP and championship with our current coach but never played for the Suns we’d still be talking about him.

I don't think I've heard Doncic's name brought up more than once or two since the Mavericks made a draft day trade for him. When he was mentioned it was about him not playing in Summer League.

 

[Carolinacacti]

With Igor's ties to Europe, I wonder if he knows of a PG that could help the Suns... at least on a temporary basis.

OKOBO

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't think I've heard Doncic's name brought up more than once or two since the Mavericks made a draft day trade for him. When he was mentioned it was about him not playing in Summer League.

Huh? Talking about Dragic. He won MVP playing for Kokoskov, not Doncic.

Edit: meant Eurobasket not EuroCup.

 

[Mainstreet]

OKOBO

I'm fine with Okobo except I don't think he is quite ready to play just yet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm fine with Okobo except I don't think he is quite ready to play just yet.

That's okay, he still has 3 or 4 months to get ready.

 

[Phrazbit]

If the hypothetical player you’re describing won a Eurocup MVP and championship with our current coach but never played for the Suns we’d still be talking about him.

Not if he was 32 years old and owed 38 million... no, I don't think we'd be talking about him.

Dragic is a poor fit, that's old and would take us out of the market in free agency next year. If he were not a former Sun we wouldn't give him a thought.

 

[Hoop Head]

Huh? Talking about Dragic. He won MVP playing for Kokoskov, not Doncic.

Edit: meant Eurobasket not EuroCup.

I know you were talking about Dragic but with a broader MVP definition Doncic can fit that description also. I was trying to point out there was another player very close to that who had his moment in the sun here as the trade target the Suns just had to go after. Talks stopped about acquiring him and they should stop regarding Dragic also.

 

[GatorAZ]

I know you were talking about Dragic but with a broader MVP definition Doncic can fit that description also. I was trying to point out there was another player very close to that who had his moment in the sun here as the trade target the Suns just had to go after. Talks stopped about acquiring him and they should stop regarding Dragic also.

Yes getting drafted by another team tends to do that. We can talk about Dragic or any player who would be the best PG on our roster with experience playing for our coach. Just conversation.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yes getting drafted by another team tends to do that. We can talk about Dragic or any player who would be the best PG on our roster with experience playing for our coach. Just conversation.

I get that, I was throwing mine in there also. I think discussing trading for Dragic is not nearly what some others think. I know Doncic was drafted but it seemed the moment the Suns got the #1 pick in the lottery this forum blew up with trade scenarios to add a second top 3 pick to draft Doncic. Ayton was the prize and a lot of people started thinking greedy in that we could somehow add Ayton and Doncic. The odd thing was how split everyone was on Doncic the day before the lottery drawing. I think most were ok with taking him at #3 or #4 but weren't excited about it. The interest seemed to pick up once he wasn't a realistic option for our own top pick.

 

[GatorAZ]

I get that, I was throwing mine in there also. I think discussing trading for Dragic is not nearly what some others think. I know Doncic was drafted but it seemed the moment the Suns got the #1 pick in the lottery this forum blew up with trade scenarios to add a second top 3 pick to draft Doncic. Ayton was the prize and a lot of people started thinking greedy in that we could somehow add Ayton and Doncic. The odd thing was how split everyone was on Doncic the day before the lottery drawing. I think most were ok with taking him at #3 or #4 but weren't excited about it. The interest seemed to pick up once he wasn't a realistic option for our own top pick.

Probably had some to do with Kokoskov as well. He’s been on record talking about Doncic with high regard (more than just coach speak). Had the Suns hired Fizdale he’s probably mentioned no more than Jaren Jackson. The Suns social media guys were also leading the movement pretty hard between Brightside and Empire.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's okay, he still has 3 or 4 months to get ready.

I'm not sure if you are having fun or being serious. As I view it, Okobo is probably the 3rd or 4th PG on the Suns unless they want to give him experience early in the season. I like his talent but he will need time to mature from what I saw in summer league.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure if you are having fun or being serious. As I view it, Okobo is probably the 3rd or 4th PG on the Suns unless they want to give him experience early in the season. I like his talent but he will need time to mature from what I saw in summer league.

I was mostly just playing around but I am interested to see what Koko can do with Okobo. I'm more interested in watching his development than I am with the possibility of bringing in a has-been or a never-was to run the point for us.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was mostly just playing around but I am interested to see what Koko can do with Okobo. I'm more interested in watching his development than I am with the possibility of bringing in a has-been or a never-was to run the point for us.

I'm mainly interested in the Suns getting through this season successfully with adequate play at the point guard position. I'd like for the Suns to play Okobo at their convenience not as a necessity. In other words, I want the Suns to take their time in developing him.

I guess I'm not counting on Knight or Harrison as being the answer at PG.

So I am looking for a PG that could replace Knight if needed with the skills to actually start. This is where a temporary fix like Teo or other options could really help.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okobo has real potential and so does Shaq. Okobo just has to play the game he has already played, but do it consistently on an NBA level. Shaq has NBA defense and reasonable distributing skills already. If he can just become a barely adequate shooter, he is maybe starter material.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Shaq's defense is overrated. Everyone has been saying he has NBA skills defensively but if that were truly the case he probably would have entered the league before the very end of last season at 24 years old. He appears to be a decent defender but it's too soon to claim his defense is anything special based on the limited sample size.

Last season he was an ok defender, when playing against NBA talent, but he did play better in Summer League. SL competition isn't nearly the same though since most guys there won't be in the NBA to start the season. I hope he can prove to be a good defender for the Suns but he needs to earn his role with the team still. I believe Kokoskov and McD view Okobo as more of a long term solution than Harrison but I could be wrong.

 

[Superbone]

I think Shaq's defense is overrated. Everyone has been saying he has NBA skills defensively but if that were truly the case he probably would have entered the league before the very end of last season at 24 years old. He appears to be a decent defender but it's too soon to claim his defense is anything special based on the limited sample size.

Last season he was an ok defender, when playing against NBA talent, but he did play better in Summer League. SL competition isn't nearly the same though since most guys there won't be in the NBA to start the season. I hope he can prove to be a good defender for the Suns but he needs to earn his role with the team still. I believe Kokoskov and McD view Okobo as more of a long term solution than Harrison but I could be wrong.

I disagree. Shaq showed NBA level elite defensive skills last year during the season.