2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

Mainstreet

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I think Shaq's defense is overrated. Everyone has been saying he has NBA skills defensively but if that were truly the case he probably would have entered the league before the very end of last season at 24 years old. He appears to be a decent defender but it's too soon to claim his defense is anything special based on the limited sample size.

Last season he was an ok defender, when playing against NBA talent, but he did play better in Summer League. SL competition isn't nearly the same though since most guys there won't be in the NBA to start the season. I hope he can prove to be a good defender for the Suns but he needs to earn his role with the team still. I believe Kokoskov and McD view Okobo as more of a long term solution than Harrison but I could be wrong.

I believe Shaq has already shown he is an NBA defender. I don't believe his defense is overrated. It's the other parts of his game that need improvement. He makes offensive players work hard.

I agree with your last sentence though. Hopefully Okobo proves to be the long term answer at point guard.
 

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I think Shaq's defense is overrated. Everyone has been saying he has NBA skills defensively but if that were truly the case he probably would have entered the league before the very end of last season at 24 years old. He appears to be a decent defender but it's too soon to claim his defense is anything special based on the limited sample size.

Last season he was an ok defender, when playing against NBA talent, but he did play better in Summer League. SL competition isn't nearly the same though since most guys there won't be in the NBA to start the season. I hope he can prove to be a good defender for the Suns but he needs to earn his role with the team still. I believe Kokoskov and McD view Okobo as more of a long term solution than Harrison but I could be wrong.

Overrated is a strong word. I agree with the others. He has shown and flashed NBA level defensive skills. I don't think you can call that overrated. If you wanted to say he still needs work or is inconsistent I could by that but overrated?
 
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Overrated is a strong word. I agree with the others. He has shown and flashed NBA level defensive skills. I don't think you can call that overrated. If you wanted to say he still needs work or is inconsistent I could by that but overrated?

I'm not sure what fits better than "overrated". I don't believe he's as good of a defender as some try to make him out to be. I don't believe he'll see minutes at end of games because of his defense like some believe. Maybe over hyped? Might be better. He may become the defender some think but I don't feel he's at that level currently. His defense alone is probably not enough to earn him quality minutes and make up for the below average distributor and offensive player he is.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm not sure what fits better than "overrated". I don't believe he's as good of a defender as some try to make him out to be. I don't believe he'll see minutes at end of games because of his defense like some believe. Maybe over hyped? Might be better. He may become the defender some think but I don't feel he's at that level currently. His defense alone is probably not enough to earn him quality minutes and make up for the below average distributor and offensive player he is.

"Exaggerated" might be another word. I'm not exactly sure why you are focusing on Harrison's strength.
 

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No one was ragging on Harrison's play making last season - it started in summer league with poor feeds to Ayton. The latter was somewhat at fault but, of course Shag should have held up the passes. I'm sure that's a problem Kokoskov can and will fix. Whether Igor can fix his shot is another matter - I know he did wonders for Rubio's shot but it's far from certain he can work the same magic with Harrison. I'm hopeful because he needs to be hitting threes at a 33% clip, minimum, to keep defenses honest. His avg last season was 23% so that's a long way to go. He's a little younger than Rubio but Ricky has always been money from the FT line, .836 career and Shaq was .737 last year.

I have a lot of confidence in Harrison's D - he's got PJ's technique of playing very tight without getting left in the dust when his man squirts off. He led the team in steal rate - and not by gambling, he picks pockets. His team defense is good, too - he helps when he should and not when he shouldn't and he recovers well. He uses his 6'4 height effectively, too. He blocked shots at .7 per 36 - double the average for PGs.

All that said, I don't want him to be the starter because I'm afraid he'll slacken on D the way Bledsoe did. I'd rather have a two-way player for 24 minutes a game than a one way player for 34 min.
 
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"Exaggerated" might be another word. I'm not exactly sure why you are focusing on Harrison's strength.

Exaggerated would work also. His defense may be his strength but the reason I'm addressing it is because it is the most spoken about aspect of his game. No one questions why others talk it up, I just don't share the same outlook on it being good enough to warrant making him a starter or using him a lot as a closer either. I think the idea of him being the PG used the most at the end of close games is what I have the bigger problem seeing. His defense may be the only NBA level skill he has right now and as a PG, that makes it harder to use him late in close games because the Suns shouldn't willingly play 4 on 5 offensively. He's not a good shooter, he's not that good at penetrating, and he's not that good at finding his teammates and creating offense. His defense is all he's got and as a PG that's not enough. If he were a wing, that might be ok but not at PG.

We could move Booker over to be the PG offensively with Shaq out there still but at that point, why not use Bridges, Reed, or Jackson if they're not already on the floor? They bring more offensively than Shaq does and are good defenders also. If Shaq isn't playing PG, there's no reason to keep him on the court instead of using one of those other guys that can give us more offensively and keep us from having someone the defenses can sag off and double off of also.

I see him as a backup, at best, and when people start trying to make him more than that is when I think there's a problem because he has 1 NBA level skill and that might work for a wing but not a PG. A PG needs to be able to create offense for others and at the least be capable of creating offense for himself but Shaq hasn't shown that yet. I know he's young and can develop but until he develops some more, it's too early to think he can slide into a more important role with the team.
 
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No one was ragging on Harrison's play making last season - it started in summer league with poor feeds to Ayton. The latter was somewhat at fault but, of course Shag should have held up the passes. I'm sure that's a problem Kokoskov can and will fix. Whether Igor can fix his shot is another matter - I know he did wonders for Rubio's shot but it's far from certain he can work the same magic with Harrison. I'm hopeful because he needs to be hitting threes at a 33% clip, minimum, to keep defenses honest. His avg last season was 23% so that's a long way to go. He's a little younger than Rubio but Ricky has always been money from the FT line, .836 career and Shaq was .737 last year.

I have a lot of confidence in Harrison's D - he's got PJ's technique of playing very tight without getting left in the dust when his man squirts off. He led the team in steal rate - and not by gambling, he picks pockets. His team defense is good, too - he helps when he should and not when he shouldn't and he recovers well. He uses his 6'4 height effectively, too. He blocked shots at .7 per 36 - double the average for PGs.

All that said, I don't want him to be the starter because I'm afraid he'll slacken on D the way Bledsoe did. I'd rather have a two-way player for 24 minutes a game than a one way player for 34 min.

To be fair, when he came in and started seeing playing time the tank was in full effect. The Suns lost, a lot, and he wasn't helping them keep games close very often. Everyone here was looking for losses and not really judging the talent the same as they would at another time because the only thing that mattered is we got more ping pong balls. So his playmaking wasn't being evaluated the same way as it was in SL or it will be in this coming season. He looked better than Mike James and kept Booker from playing PG. That's all most fans wanted to see from anyone who was our PG in February, March, and April.
 

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Harrison and Okobo have futures on this team, but I don't really see starting as options, well at least for Shaq.

Those two plus Knight are placeholders for the PG that comes next off-season. Like it has been pointed out on a few occasions, next year is the year to sign a PG.

By that point, the Suns should also know if it's time to get a new PF as well, but the rest of the roster should be fleshed out.
 

Mainstreet

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Exaggerated would work also. His defense may be his strength but the reason I'm addressing it is because it is the most spoken about aspect of his game. No one questions why others talk it up, I just don't share the same outlook on it being good enough to warrant making him a starter or using him a lot as a closer either. I think the idea of him being the PG used the most at the end of close games is what I have the bigger problem seeing. His defense may be the only NBA level skill he has right now and as a PG, that makes it harder to use him late in close games because the Suns shouldn't willingly play 4 on 5 offensively. He's not a good shooter, he's not that good at penetrating, and he's not that good at finding his teammates and creating offense. His defense is all he's got and as a PG that's not enough. If he were a wing, that might be ok but not at PG.

We could move Booker over to be the PG offensively with Shaq out there still but at that point, why not use Bridges, Reed, or Jackson if they're not already on the floor? They bring more offensively than Shaq does and are good defenders also. If Shaq isn't playing PG, there's no reason to keep him on the court instead of using one of those other guys that can give us more offensively and keep us from having someone the defenses can sag off and double off of also.

I see him as a backup, at best, and when people start trying to make him more than that is when I think there's a problem because he has 1 NBA level skill and that might work for a wing but not a PG. A PG needs to be able to create offense for others and at the least be capable of creating offense for himself but Shaq hasn't shown that yet. I know he's young and can develop but until he develops some more, it's too early to think he can slide into a more important role with the team.

I understand what you are saying. Of course Shaq has to be a threat offensively to keep defenses honest. I view him more as a specialty point guard... a player that can be brought in to hound an offensive player and wear him down. I think this is his value. However, he still needs to be able to run the offense as well.

As you mention, Booker might be able to help share PG duties while Shaq is on the court. This is a possibility. The advantage Shaq has compared to playing Bridges, Reed, or Jackson in these situations is he can play PG. The Suns presently do not have room to carry 4 PGs on their roster but with questions at this position, they may need too.
 
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I know next year's free agent class looks good as far as the PG's that should be available but what about the draft class? We'll have our pick, which will probably be late lottery, and the Bucks pick also, which goes to us if it falls anywhere between #4-#16. The Bucks will keep it if it's #1-3 or it's between #17-30. That could leave us with 2 late lottery picks, which would probably be packaged to move up but who knows right now. I don't follow college basketball close enough to know of any quality PG's that may be in this next draft. Does anyone know of any PG's that are supposed to be in the next draft class?


I thought the Bucks pick had more protection in the lottery than it does but I was wrong. That pick could be really good if the Bucks miss the playoffs, which is a possibility. If Giannis gets hurt or asks out, that pick's value would skyrocket, I'd think. Depending on when that happens, of course. It could be valuable in a trade this season though if the Bucks are bad. The Suns don't need to add 2 lottery picks again though. This next draft isn't supposed to be as deep either so trading it is a possibility if a PG is available in a trade and there aren't many good PG prospects. I don't know if that's the case though. If it's a PG heavy draft then it might be best to keep it.
 

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Knight and their pick back, how could they say no? We could always add Chriss if they tried playing hardball.

Chriss still has some potential. Let's see if they'll take a highly protected future second round pick instead.
 
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Chriss still has some potential. Let's see if they'll take a highly protected future second round pick instead.

Chandler was a former Defensive Player of the Year and they need help at Center. They did sign Brook Lopez but Chandler's defense would help them more. Maybe swap him for Chriss? They might need to include Brogdan though, to make it fair.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Chandler was a former Defensive Player of the Year and they need help at Center. They did sign Brook Lopez but Chandler's defense would help them more. Maybe swap him for Chriss? They might need to include Brogdan though, to make it fair.
Now you guys are cooking with oil!!!
 

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Glad they brought him back! I thought he did a good job last year. He can defend, pass, and shoot. Exactly what they needed.
 

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That ankle...
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Mainstreet

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I think the Suns would have invited Canaan to camp in any regard because they liked how he performed before suffering the ankle injury. It's a solid move IMO.

However, since nothing is going much, I thought I would take a moment to speculate. Could this be a chess move as well. Might the Suns want to project they are content with their point guard situation.

With teams like the Clippers and the 76ers overloaded at point guard, the Suns do not want to appear too hungry if a trade comes along. I think the addition of Canaan helps the Suns in this regard.
 

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I feel like they have a backup point guard in Canaan, a third point guard for specialty defensive lineups in Harrison, and a developing youngster in Okobo. Still missing a starting point guard though.
 
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Really glad Canaan is back. He is probably the backup PG right now and I'm ok with that. I hope he doesn't need to start for a good portion of the season but I'm fine with him covering the starting spot for a dozen games or so. I like what he showed last year. He provides Igor an NBA ready backup, which will help him run his system. We're now over the 15 man limit and someone will be the odd man out but I'd be surprised if Canaan is that person, provided he's healthy. Shaq's deal isn't fully guaranteed yet, it won't be until January, I believe. When he was kept before it just triggered a $50k roster bonus which is nothing for NBA teams.


I'm glad the Suns kept their word with Canaan also. That's a good move by the front office, who has helped rebuild their reputation this offseason. McD hasn't done anything stupid in a little while, which was my biggest problem with him.
 
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