2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[BC867]

As I said good call about which owner, but I can say that you are wrong about what an owner is privy to.

This is the good old boys club and they all know everything. They didn’t get invited to become owners because they had money, these guys take care of their own and know they can work together.

Doesn’t make them experts of course not, but it does make them the boss and the boss is always right.

Also if you think the GM just gets to make decisions, nothing could be further from the truth.

The past eight years prove that this group is not experts. It is a competitive league. It doesn't matter if you are good or bad. Just that you are better than your competitors.

As an insider, can you respond to this question? How do the owners other than Sarver feel about his egotistical public antics over the years? Yes, I know he's cut back recently.

A few months ago, I sent a letter to each of the other owners urging them to put their 70% together and keep Sarver from making a fool of himself, even if it meant naming another Managing General Partner. Is that automatic with Sarver being the largest single investor or is Managing General Partner chosen by vote?

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Chaplin]

The past eight years prove that this group is not experts. It is a competitive league. It doesn't matter if you are good or bad. Just that you are better than your competitors.

As an insider, can you respond to this question? How do the owners other than Sarver feel about his egotistical public antics over the years? Yes, I know he's cut back recently.

A few months ago, I sent a letter to each of the other owners urging them to put their 70% together and keep Sarver from making a fool of himself, even if it meant naming another Managing General Partner. Is that automatic with Sarver being the largest single investor or is Managing General Partner chosen by vote?

Thanks for your insight.

What's your definition of "recently"? When was the last time Sarver embarrassed you with his antics? It's been quite awhile, to his credit. I don't remember any incident at least while McD has been GM.

 

[elindholm]

I don’t want to be that fake guy with a fake source so I debated for a few days to say anything.

You should have debated a few days more.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You should have debated a few days more.

Eh I think it’s tough to sit on news that you know others will find interesting, but even more difficult to balance disclosure with being a good friend to your source. Unfortunately it almost always comes across as cryptic with little value and then you take a beating on the board.

 

[Yuma]

So one of the things our coach is known for is being a PG Whisperer. Let's see what he can do with the guys we have. I mean we can get by with average assuming all the rest of the guys are balling.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So one of the things our coach is known for is being a PG Whisperer. Let's see what he can do with the guys we have. I mean we can get by with average assuming all the rest of the guys are balling.

https://deadspin.com/even-if-you-havent-heard-of-new-suns-coach-igor-kokosko-1825751682.

Its old but it applies.

 

[Hoop Head]

https://deadspin.com/even-if-you-havent-heard-of-new-suns-coach-igor-kokosko-1825751682.

Its old but it applies.

That's a good read, especially for anyone looking to learn more about Kokoskov and his history in the NBA specifically. Most articles I've seen talk about his work overseas more than what and where he's been in the NBA. It was written before the lottery drawing even took place so it didn't get into predicting his future with the Suns since there were way too many question marks at that point since no one knew who we would draft and how that would have effected our free agent plans. It does make the case for him being a solid hiring with the background to be a good head coach now that he's been given that opportunity.

 

[Big Deal]

The past eight years prove that this group is not experts. It is a competitive league. It doesn't matter if you are good or bad. Just that you are better than your competitors.

As an insider, can you respond to this question? How do the owners other than Sarver feel about his egotistical public antics over the years? Yes, I know he's cut back recently.

A few months ago, I sent a letter to each of the other owners urging them to put their 70% together and keep Sarver from making a fool of himself, even if it meant naming another Managing General Partner. Is that automatic with Sarver being the largest single investor or is Managing General Partner chosen by vote?

Thanks for your insight.

Sure, I can tell that there are four main owners that are incredibly close. They all built their companies from nothing and have extreme confidence that they know how to be successful.

These guys have helped each other become insanely wealthy over the past 30 years and there is no way in the world they would turn on Sarver.

I can tell you that they are huge fans and they want to have a great team, but they are not in this to lose money.

I can say there has been a lot of speculation on this board this summer about the surplus of wings and the one that is brought up so much as trade bait is being shopped.

 

[elindholm]

I can say there has been a lot of speculation on this board this summer about the surplus of wings and the one that is brought up so much as trade bait is being shopped.

So your scoop is that Warren is available for the right price? That's earth-shattering.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So your scoop is that Warren is available for the right price? That's earth-shattering.

Its August. The fact that anything is news is news.

 

[BC867]

These guys have helped each other become insanely wealthy over the past 30 years and there is no way in the world they would turn on Sarver.

I can tell you that they are huge fans and they want to have a great team, but they are not in this to lose money.

My only response to that is . . . professional sports is not only an investment. It is in the public domain. The owners have an obligation to the community.

Missing the playoffs for eight years indicates failure.. If it came down to that vs. spending money wisely, these owners should sell the team and count their money!


And I repeat my question. Is Sarver the Managing General Partner automatically because his 30% investment is the largest single investment in the group? Or by vote of the other investors because they would "never turn on" him? Or his unprofessional behavior?

Clearly, Robert Sarver's antics over the years show that he was not qualified to be the figurehead. My concern is that he has hired inexperienced General Managers and Head Coaches to compete in the best basketball league in the world. Underlings learning on the job without the credentials to stand up to him.

I just hope that, having finally gotten lucky in the draft, these "insanely wealthy" investors don't screw it up because the rich want to get (insanely) richer and can't see beyond the end of their nose.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My only response to that is . . . professional sports is not only an investment. It is in the public domain. The owners have an obligation to the community.

Missing the playoffs for eight years indicates failure.. If it came down to that vs. spending money wisely, these owners should sell the team and count their money!


And I repeat my question. Is Sarver the Managing General Partner automatically because his 30% investment is the largest single investment in the group? Or by vote of the other investors because they would "never turn on" him? Or his unprofessional behavior?

Clearly, Robert Sarver's antics over the years show that he was not qualified to be the figurehead. My concern is that he has hired inexperienced General Managers and Head Coaches to compete in the best basketball league in the world. Underlings learning on the job without the credentials to stand up to him.

I just hope that, having finally gotten lucky in the draft, these "insanely wealthy" investors don't screw it up because the rich want to get (insanely) richer and can't see beyond the end of their nose.

Those of us that are fans of teams yearn to hold onto the illusory concept of “public domain.” The truth is, that’s not true. These guys spend an inordinate amount of money for these teams. They increase in value exponentially. We have no rights with regards to the teams other than to vote against new stadiums with the risk that we lose a franchise. To think otherwise is an antiquated lie that most people told themselves and that owners did not dispell because it wasn’t in their interest not to have fans buy into the concept of “public domain ownership” of a team.

 

[BC867]

Those of us that are fans of teams yearn to hold onto the illusory concept of “public domain.” The truth is, that’s not true. These guys spend an inordinate amount of money for these teams. They increase in value exponentially. We have no rights with regards to the teams other than to vote against new stadiums with the risk that we lose a franchise. To think otherwise is an antiquated lie that most people told themselves and that owners did not dispell because it wasn’t in their interest not to have fans buy into the concept of “public domain ownership” of a team.

I'm curious how you react to the rest of the post I responded to beside the words public domain. "Insanely wealthy investors" who would "never turn on" (monitor) Sarver.

Public domain or not, any venture needs accountability. That's accountability, not an accountant sitting in his office in San Diego getting insanely wealthy (as Big Deal shared with us) while running the Suns into the ground for so long.

Isn't anybody going to look at it from the point of view of Suns fans? Is there no obligation to expect professionalism from the insanely wealthy investors? Insane is right!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm curious how you react to the rest of the post I responded to beside the words public domain. "Insanely wealthy investors" who would "never turn on" (monitor) Sarver.

Public domain or not, any venture needs accountability. That's accountability, not an accountant sitting in his office in San Diego getting insanely wealthy (as Big Deal shared with us) while running the Suns into the ground for so long.

Isn't anybody going to look at it from the point of view of Suns fans? Is there no obligation to expect professionalism from the insanely wealthy investors? Insane is right!

Accountability in business that big is the bottom line... and that bottom line is profitably, not playoffs. Expecting anything else is just being naive at this point.

 

[BC867]

Accountability in business that big is the bottom line... and that bottom line is profitably, not playoffs. Expecting anything else is just being naive at this point.

But Big Deal gave us the insight that the D-backs investors are insanely wealthy. So how is that an excuse for our failure to compete this decade?

Is it one or the other? I don't believe so if you have a skilled Managing General Partner leading the team. Who says they have to be mutually exclusive?

Sarver has been an attention getting buffoon.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But Big Deal gave us the insight that the D-backs investors are insanely wealthy. So how is that an excuse for our failure to compete this decade?

Is it one or the other? I don't believe so if you have a skilled Managing General Partner leading the team. Who says they have to be mutually exclusive?

Sarver has been an attention getting buffoon.

I won't say it's an excuse but this franchise was struggling financially until Ryan made some changes and the league was awarded a huge TV contract. So, now, they are doing quite well and I'm sure that has a lot to do with the decision to try and move the timeline forward (IOW, it was more than just fear of losing Booker). It also has a lot to do with why Ryan still has a job despite a few very questionable decisions - it always comes down to the bottom line for most franchises.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm curious how you react to the rest of the post I responded to beside the words public domain. "Insanely wealthy investors" who would "never turn on" (monitor) Sarver.

Public domain or not, any venture needs accountability. That's accountability, not an accountant sitting in his office in San Diego getting insanely wealthy (as Big Deal shared with us) while running the Suns into the ground for so long.

Isn't anybody going to look at it from the point of view of Suns fans? Is there no obligation to expect professionalism from the insanely wealthy investors? Insane is right!

Look, I’m no sarver fan. I’ve bashed him greatly for years. But I just can’t bring myself to believe he has some societal obligation. Ultimately fans speak with their wallets - but revenue sharing obviously dampens our impact these days.

I’ll say this, I DO believe that sarver desperately wants to win within a reasonable budget. I just think historically he’s done a terrible job making decisions towards that end.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But Big Deal gave us the insight that the D-backs investors are insanely wealthy. So how is that an excuse for our failure to compete this decade?

Is it one or the other? I don't believe so if you have a skilled Managing General Partner leading the team. Who says they have to be mutually exclusive?

Sarver has been an attention getting buffoon.

I’m prettt sure they can be insanely wealthy compared to everyone on this board and still close to paupers compared to some other owners. It’s all relative. I don’t understand why you’re seemingly attacking Big Deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m prettt sure they can be insanely wealthy compared to everyone on this board and still close to paupers compared to some other owners. It’s all relative. I don’t understand why you’re seemingly attacking Big Deal.

agreed.

 

[devilalum]

Accountability in business that big is the bottom line... and that bottom line is profitably, not playoffs. Expecting anything else is just being naive at this point.

My guess is most people rich enough to invest in a professional sports franchise are more interested in the prestige than the profit.

Winning is obviously more prestigious.


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[AzStevenCal]

My guess is most people rich enough to invest in a professional sports franchise are more interested in the prestige than the profit.

Winning is obviously more prestigious.

That might be what lures most of them into this business but even the poor owners are wealthy. You don't get or stay wealthy by prioritizing prestige or fame or popularity over money. Most of them really want to win but few will actually accept losing what really matters - and that's money.

 

[devilalum]

That might be what lures most of them into this business but even the poor owners are wealthy. You don't get or stay wealthy by prioritizing prestige or fame or popularity over money. Most of them really want to win but few will actually accept losing what really matters - and that's money.

It’s kind of a “moo” point. Mediocre teams in cap hell don’t win or get better or make money. Good cap health is essential to building a winning team.


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[JCSunsfan]

My guess is most people rich enough to invest in a professional sports franchise are more interested in the prestige than the profit.

Winning is obviously more prestigious.


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They did not get where they did by losing money. They like the prestige, but they are not just going to throw money away, especially the self-made types.

 

[BC867]

I’m prettt sure they can be insanely wealthy compared to everyone on this board and still close to paupers compared to some other owners. It’s all relative. I don’t understand why you’re seemingly attacking Big Deal.

Hey! I have never attacked a poster. To the contrary, I have called some out for doing so.

Show me one post out of my 11,561 when I have gotten personal with a poster to try to prove a point. Or have a dissenting opinion.

On the other hand, I have definitely criticized management or ballplayers when I felt they have acted irresponsibly.

 

[Mainstreet]

I see nothing but good conversation. BC is posting his opinion like everyone else. I see no reason why a well managed franchise cannot win and make money at the same time. Certainly the value of NBA franchises have blossomed.