2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I see what he did in Milwaukee and immediately recognize he’s not even “good.” He’s average. He started off with the clippers as “great potential!” That was based on limited minutes off the bench as an athletic energizer. He was traded for minimal assets to the suns. He flashed great athleticism on defense and some get to the hole ability. He put up expected scoring numbers in a bad team and average, at best, assist numbers. His defense quickly disappeared when it was no longer his primary responsibility. He was again traded for relatively meager return to the Bucks. Everyone hailed that as a great get for the Bucks. But his game didn’t blossom there. 18,5 with adequate shooting #s and 2 steals is I guess a little above average. But they only won 2 more games than the season prior, underachieved in the playoffs according to prognosticators (where Bledsoe was somewhat exposed) and I believe that the win increase was due more to Parker’s health and Giannis taking the next step to a superstar than to Bledsoe’s arrival.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think his injury, his pursuit of the max and questions about his attitude are in my top 3 reasons. Otherwise I could have lived with Bledsoe until the Suns found a suitable replacement.

I agree with this although I would have put Rich Paul in there in front of attitude. I think we, or perhaps the situation here, deserves some of the blame for his attitude.

 

[Hoop Head]

That last part is off base. Our record was waaay better when he played, including the Dragic season.

Yeah, I think there's some history being mildly re-written here about Bledsoe. He may not have become the player we hoped he would but he was still very effective. He lost out on assists regularly because his teammates were mostly useless, not just because he was occasionally reckless with the ball. Without him, IMO, we finish dead last each season. But after his last surgery he stopped playing defense and he wasn't quite the player he had been. He also stopped working on his game (or so it seemed). That doesn't make his stats empty or change the fact that it was him and Booker and a bunch of players that wouldn't start for most teams.

We had to move on from him and we made that move later than we should have. I was firmly in the Bledsoe camp but I started pushing for a trade a full year before we finally moved him. I think the team started trying to trade him around then too but he was a good not great guard with horrible knees and Rich Paul in his corner. What team wants to pay big bucks to deal with that? Apparently, not many.

I was a fan of Bledsoe at first and appreciate his play the first 2 years he was here but he didn't help the Suns go anywhere or win anything. So he helped us win 30-35 games instead of 20-5. Is that really a positive? He looked good here at first but when he suffered more injuries in his 3rd year with us, it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be a PG that was going to lead the team anywhere.

A lot of people here routinely point to players like Kevin Love for putting up empty stats when he was in Minnesota and he had bad teammates also. That doesn't change the fact his stats didn't help them win. Bledsoe was the PG version of Love here. He put up decent scoring numbers but that's it. He wasn't very efficient, a good playmaker, or leader while with the Suns. I don't get why people have issue with pointing out who he was.

He was a slightly above average PG, that's it. He wasn't an All-Star, he wasn't a franchise PG, but he also wasn't a scrub. He was a placeholder, basically. A stop gap to plug in until they were able to upgrade the position somehow or trade him for a decent return. Unfortunately we haven't found anyone better yet and weren't able to get much in a trade for him because his value wasn't that high. He's not a top 10 PG in the league, he's probably between 10-15 if you wanted to rank all of the starting PG's in the league. I don't see the problem with pointing that out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was a fan of Bledsoe at first and appreciate his play the first 2 years he was here but he didn't help the Suns go anywhere or win anything. So he helped us win 30-35 games instead of 20-5. Is that really a positive? He looked good here at first but when he suffered more injuries in his 3rd year with us, it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be a PG that was going to lead the team anywhere.

A lot of people here routinely point to players like Kevin Love for putting up empty stats when he was in Minnesota and he had bad teammates also. That doesn't change the fact his stats didn't help them win. Bledsoe was the PG version of Love here. He put up decent scoring numbers but that's it. He wasn't very efficient, a good playmaker, or leader while with the Suns. I don't get why people have issue with pointing out who he was.

He was a slightly above average PG, that's it. He wasn't an All-Star, he wasn't a franchise PG, but he also wasn't a scrub. He was a placeholder, basically. A stop gap to plug in until they were able to upgrade the position somehow or trade him for a decent return. Unfortunately we haven't found anyone better yet and weren't able to get much in a trade for him because his value wasn't that high. He's not a top 10 PG in the league, he's probably between 10-15 if you wanted to rank all of the starting PG's in the league. I don't see the problem with pointing that out.

I really don't understand this thinking unless you're just saying we'd have been better off losing for draft position and to that I'd say yes. But otherwise, it's a team game and expecting a better than average guard to carry an assortment of junk to the playoffs is unreasonable IMO. Had others performed as well as Eric did, we'd have won a lot more games. Sure, it's a disappointment that Bledsoe wasn't good enough to carry us single-handedly but few players are.

I don't have an issue with anyone pointing out his flaws or the fact he was far less than perfect. But some posts now seem to be saying he was the reason we lost and I'd challenge anyone to watch his games prior to this past season and support that position. I don't believe it can be done rationally. I'd lay the 2 embarrassing games last season under Watson at his feet but prior to us benching him for the tank, he was one of our few positive matchups. Okay, so he was probably no better than middle of the pack for his position in 16-17 due to his defensive indifference but again, he was one of our few matchup advantages on many nights.

And BTW, despite what I've said here, I agree with most of your post.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree with this although I would have put Rich Paul in there in front of attitude. I think we, or perhaps the situation here, deserves some of the blame for his attitude.

I considered pursuit of the max as another way of referring to Paul Rich.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I considered pursuit of the max as another way of referring to Paul Rich.

Yeah, I wondered about that but I think Rich Paul's approach to negotiation is such a problem that it deserves direct recognition.

 

[Hoop Head]

I really don't understand this thinking unless you're just saying we'd have been better off losing for draft position and to that I'd say yes. But otherwise, it's a team game and expecting a better than average guard to carry an assortment of junk to the playoffs is unreasonable IMO. Had others performed as well as Eric did, we'd have won a lot more games. Sure, it's a disappointment that Bledsoe wasn't good enough to carry us single-handedly but few players are.

I don't have an issue with anyone pointing out his flaws or the fact he was far less than perfect. But some posts now seem to be saying he was the reason we lost and I'd challenge anyone to watch his games prior to this past season and support that position. I don't believe it can be done rationally. I'd lay the 2 embarrassing games last season under Watson at his feet but prior to us benching him for the tank, he was one of our few positive matchups. Okay, so he was probably no better than middle of the pack for his position in 16-17 due to his defensive indifference but again, he was one of our few matchup advantages on many nights.

And BTW, despite what I've said here, I agree with most of your post.

I don't think he was the reason we lost but I think he held up our rebuild with his presence. Once we paid him he was less than what fans hoped he would be, and probably less what the team itself hoped he would be also. If he could have become an All-Star, like how he wanted to get paid, then he could have been the first piece of the puzzle in the rebuild but he wasn't an All-Star and I don't believe he can be one of the 3 best players on a title team either. I don't hold it against him for getting paid, anyone would have taken as much as they could get, but he seemed to play with less effort once he got that big paycheck. That's my biggest problem with him. If he stayed the player he was in that first season, I think he was a player we could have built around some but he quit playing defense like he did initially and seemed content leading a team that was going nowhere so long as his checks cleared.

Back to what I initially said about him being a SG in PG body, if he accepted playing off the ball more I think he would have helped the team the most in that capacity but he didn't seem to care about helping the team so much as putting up numbers. I remember seeing Hornacek scream and wave on the sideline for Eric to push the pace and run the fastbreak for Bledsoe to simply walk the ball up the court. He didn't seem interested in pushing the pace unless he was able to drive it to the basket himself. He didn't run to set up others like Nash used to do all the time. I didn't expect him to be Nash but I excepted him to be as much of a PG as Dragic, at least, since he seemed so adamant that he was a PG and needed the ball in his hands but he wasn't good at creating for others and seemed reluctant to share the spotlight. That put the team in a weird position.

I would say that things are probably 60/40 that he didn't work out here, with 60% blame falling on him and Rich Paul. The Suns shouldn't have caved to his demands of money initially or to use him as their primary PG but that wasn't entirely their fault. Maybe it's more 50/50 but I blame him a little more with how he asked out. The way he did that showed his true colors and I won't give him benefit of the doubt knowing that's who he really is. It's not even how he asked out as much as reports of him being fine here if we paid him a max extension but since we didn't he decided to pout.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The way he did that showed his true colors and I won't give him benefit of the doubt knowing that's who he really is. It's not even how he asked out as much as reports of him being fine here if we paid him a max extension but since we didn't he decided to pout.

I think he was a lot like McDyess - almost a simpleton in some ways. Not strong minded at all. I'm confident that his "attitude" was directed by Paul. Like I've said, I wanted to move on from him. But unlike you I guess, it was because of his future not his past. I think he did his job and earned his money. The only reason we went that high was Ryan learned of the upcoming TV money. He's currently the 77th highest player, nowhere near a concern and no more than what he was worth IMO.

 

[Big Deal]

Trade is coming, roster not set.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Trade is coming, roster not set.

Opinion?

 

[overseascardfan]

Opinion?

Let me consult my magic 8 ball.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Let me consult my magic 8 ball.

You do know they're actually toys right? Regardless, I suggest you concentrate and ask again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Trade is coming, roster not set.

In the other thread you said you had dinner with the owner the other night. Is this quote information from said dinner or mere speculation?

And now I’ll bite . . . how do you know sarver?

 

[BC867]

In the other thread you said you had dinner with the owner the other night. Is this quote information from said dinner or mere speculation?

And now I’ll bite . . . how do you know sarver?

Owner doesn't necessarily mean Sarver. His investment is only 30% of the team.

And is any investor qualified to evaluate on-court talent? That has been part of the problem in the past. An investor thinking that makes him a GM.

 

[devilalum]

Owner doesn't necessarily mean Sarver. His investment is only 30% of the team.

And is any investor qualified to evaluate on-court talent? That has been part of the problem in the past. An investor thinking that makes him a GM.

If I was a minority owner I’d expect a certain level of inside information to come my way. That seems fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[overseascardfan]

You do know they're actually toys right? Regardless, I suggest you concentrate and ask again.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think it matters much where they heard Knight has a done a 180 considering that is exactly what has been reported about him all offseason. I don't see that as inside info or even privileged information. We'll see if it's true when the season starts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think it matters much where they heard Knight has a done a 180 considering that is exactly what has been reported about him all offseason. I don't see that as inside info or even privileged information. We'll see if it's true when the season starts.

I don’t care about that. I care about comment that a trade is a coming!

 

[Big Deal]

Lol, I’m really sorry for being vague. Good call BC with the owner, I actually know several of the owners and left the name out since I don’t want it coming back on me.

Yes I know the reports are out there which is why I grilled on it the other night. I was told emphatically it wasn’t hype.

I don’t want to be that fake guy with a fake source so I debated for a few days to say anything. If someone wants to PM me I can prove my affiliation and where we had dinner on Monday night.

I frequently get floor tickets directly behind the visiting team and have known these guys for years. I rarely if ever get any inside info, but Monday had a few too many tequila shots going down and a lot was discussed.

 

[Big Deal]

Owner doesn't necessarily mean Sarver. His investment is only 30% of the team.

And is any investor qualified to evaluate on-court talent? That has been part of the problem in the past. An investor thinking that makes him a GM.

As I said good call about which owner, but I can say that you are wrong about what an owner is privy to.

This is the good old boys club and they all know everything. They didn’t get invited to become owners because they had money, these guys take care of their own and know they can work together.

Doesn’t make them experts of course not, but it does make them the boss and the boss is always right.

Also if you think the GM just gets to make decisions, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Hoop Head]

Lol, I’m really sorry for being vague. Good call BC with the owner, I actually know several of the owners and left the name out since I don’t want it coming back on me.

Yes I know the reports are out there which is why I grilled on it the other night. I was told emphatically it wasn’t hype.

I don’t want to be that fake guy with a fake source so I debated for a few days to say anything. If someone wants to PM me I can prove my affiliation and where we had dinner on Monday night.

I frequently get floor tickets directly behind the visiting team and have known these guys for years. I rarely if ever get any inside info, but Monday had a few too many tequila shots going down and a lot was discussed.

What's the point of PM'ing you for proof if you revealed nothing?

I respect how you don't want to come across as yet another poster with inside sources and that's fine but you've now elaborated more on meeting with an owner of the team but haven't said anything at all except you had dinner with them, in sort of a humble brag type of way since you've now posted twice saying the same thing about meeting with them without revealing anything of note.

So the rumors of a trade aren't just rumors? I'm sure most believed that to be true based on a number of things. The roster is uneven, McD came out not long ago and said we weren't done making deals, and we still have a hole at PG, even if Knight works out. So did you have any sort of rumor to float or... what? Any direction they're headed in, teams we're dealing with, players on their radar, something that is more revealing than you had dinner with somebody?

 

[Hoop Head]

Ty Lawson is still available and is meeting with the Pelicans. He's not the player he was 4-5 years ago but he could be a decent backup. I searched to see if anyone here has mentioned and the last thing said about him was someone suggesting the idea of trading Knight for Lawson at the 2016 trade deadline. I can see why teams aren't willing to pay him big bucks but a vet minimum deal to play backup would probably be better than anything we have, provided he's cleaned up his act off the court.

I guess with Knight being a question mark already in terms of what he can do the Suns aren't interested in bringing in another PG with questions to play backup. Another thing I've considered is the Suns are in a good spot right now to pick up a starting PG because then Knight moves to the bench and Canaan/Harrison/Okobo move down to 3rd string or G-League players. If we brought in someone who figures to be a backup though like a Ty Lawson that puts us in a worse position if we can add a starter since our backup would move out of the rotation and Knight would move to the backup role, or that's how it would typically play out. So adding a backup at the juncture could be an issue.

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/...gets-kings-wizards/1i4juq1wskk3r1v5dbk3gponrw

 

[Chaplin]

Getting a PG that is only at best a backup is useless at this point with Knight, Harrison and Canaan on the roster. If we get a PG, he has to at least have a small chance of starting over Brandon Knight, if not a big chance. But if the Suns truly think that Knight is the answer this year, then IMO Harrison/Canaan/Okobo are perfectly fine backups.

If we acquire a PG, he better be acquired to start.

 

[SirStefan32]

Getting a PG that is only at best a backup is useless at this point with Knight, Harrison and Canaan on the roster. If we get a PG, he has to at least have a small chance of starting over Brandon Knight, if not a big chance. But if the Suns truly think that Knight is the answer this year, then IMO Harrison/Canaan/Okobo are perfectly fine backups.

If we acquire a PG, he better be acquired to start.

That is a very good take on the current PG situation. I tend to agree that they are good with backups.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Getting a PG that is only at best a backup is useless at this point with Knight, Harrison and Canaan on the roster. If we get a PG, he has to at least have a small chance of starting over Brandon Knight, if not a big chance. But if the Suns truly think that Knight is the answer this year, then IMO Harrison/Canaan/Okobo are perfectly fine backups.

If we acquire a PG, he better be acquired to start.

Totally agree with this. Getting another back up pg just muddies the water. Better not add one at all.