2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Mainstreet]

I understand a number of teams are interested in Jeremy Lin. The reported asking price is a first round pick.

No thanks.

 

[Mainstreet]

Except that it was McD who said that and he is no longer here. So things are completely unknown now as far as predicting what this team will do.

James Jones has said the Suns focus will be on NBA players... just saying.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/12/2...s-focus-has-shifted-to-nba-players-not-draft/

 

[JCSunsfan]

James Jones has said the Suns focus will be on NBA players... just saying.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/12/2...s-focus-has-shifted-to-nba-players-not-draft/

Funny that this writer thinks that the Suns should have netted a draft pick in the Ariza trade. That would have been pointless. We have enough of those already. Oubre was a great pick up and the Suns have control of him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Funny that this writer thinks that the Suns should have netted a draft pick in the Ariza trade. That would have been pointless. We have enough of those already. Oubre was a great pick up and the Suns have control of him.

I only paid attention to the article because of the quotes from James Jones.

The pick thing is off the wall.

 

[taz02]

So, who do you sit--TJ or Bridges?

I think the difference between Melton and Rozier, especially offensively, would be very significant.

I have no idea who should sit, maybe trade one for the right guy.

Rozier- 8.8ppg 4rpg 2.8ast in 22.8minutes
Melton- 6.2ppg 2.7rpg 3.2ast in 20.9minutes

I don't watch Rozier, maybe I'm missing something but their stats are very similar. In fact Melton has more assists in less minutes.

Maybe someone who watches Rozier on a regular basis can shed some light on the hype.

 

[devilalum]

That's not what he said. He said it is easier to get a free agent than it is to trade for a player. Plus, it would be REALLY stupid of him to say, "Oh yeah, we'll trade for one" even if he intends to trade for one.

Oh yeah, the message has to be, “We’ve got a plan, we’re good, we don’t NEED to make any trades to achieve our goals. “

GMs smell desperation like sharks smell blood in the water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[taz02]

Oh yeah, the message has to be, “We’ve got a plan, we’re good, we don’t NEED to make any trades to achieve our goals. “

GMs smell desperation like sharks smell blood in the water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The suns are like a swimmer dressed in a seal outfit flailing around in a chum slick.... I don't know if Jones's statement will fool them..

 

[devilalum]

The suns are like a swimmer dressed in a seal outfit flailing around in a chum slick.... I don't know if Jones's statement will fool them..

Totally agree. That’s why they have to be willing to ride it out. Every GM with a doesn’t PG is gonna want the Suns #1 or more. It’s a total boys club. If you get fleeced by the Suns your cred is shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[High Stakes]

Kemba walker is the answer. Offer him max in FA. He’s old enough to lead but not too old to play. Rozier/Russell/collision/Corey Joseph/etc are all garbage. If you’re going to go after a PG, it has to be walker.

 

[1Sun]

Kemba walker is the answer. Offer him max in FA. He’s old enough to lead but not too old to play. Rozier/Russell/collision/Corey Joseph/etc are all garbage. If you’re going to go after a PG, it has to be walker.

Agreed, but I don't think there is any way he doesn't end up either staying in Charlotte or signing with the Knicks, Nets or Celtics, no matter how much we offer him.

 

[High Stakes]

Agreed, but I don't think there is any way he doesn't end up either staying in Charlotte or signing with the Knicks, Nets or Celtics, no matter how much we offer him.

Then you must draft ja $. Suns luck will make sure we won’t be able to draft Zion (curse of az sports). If we can’t get Kemba, morant becomes a “must draft” player

 

[Proximo]

Then you must draft ja $. Suns luck will make sure we won’t be able to draft Zion (curse of az sports). If we can’t get Kemba, morant becomes a “must draft” player

I think there is a good chance when all is said and done he goes no lower than 3rd, so the suns may not get a high enough pick to draft him.

There is no chance at Kemba. Either he is fine with playing for a bad team and stays in Charlotte for the most money, or he signs with a good team because he wants to win.
The Suns have no chance at getting him.

 

[Proximo]

So Bright Side has a new article up saying the ringer podcast says two teams are showing interest in Dennis Smith - the Suns and Orlando. It suggests Okobo and the Millwaukee pick may get it done. That is a no brainer if true, and I am somebody who really likes Okobo - but I don't think he is or will be better than Dennis Smith.

I don't think Barea going down changes anything. Dennis Smith is still not going to be happy there. Any deal we make was going to have to include Melton or Okobo anyway.

I really think Smith will play much better once he is traded. He wants the opportunity to be the man, and that is not going to happen with Doncic hogging the ball. I know many will say how is booker different - well he is different because I think he is content to play off the ball as long as he still gets his shots.

I keep seeing the Suns can do better than Smith - and I keep asking myself how? The only young PG I can think of who is better or has more upside is D'Arron Fox who obviously is not available. Maybe Trae Young? He's not available either. For a bit older player - I do love Brogdan - but I really don't think he will be available. There is no realistic chance at Kemba. No realistic chance at Irving. A very small chance at Lillard but it would cost a fortune and with his age not sure he fits our timeline. Maybe a chance at Holliday - but he is much older also and we probably would not be his preferred destination.

Who is it you guys think would be better and would be fine being a Phoenix Sun? Cause I just don't see where they exist.

 

[SirStefan32]

So Bright Side has a new article up saying the ringer podcast says two teams are showing interest in Dennis Smith - the Suns and Orlando. It suggests Okobo and the Millwaukee pick may get it done. That is a no brainer if true, and I am somebody who really likes Okobo - but I don't think he is or will be better than Dennis Smith.

I don't think Barea going down changes anything. Dennis Smith is still not going to be happy there. Any deal we make was going to have to include Melton or Okobo anyway.

I really think Smith will play much better once he is traded. He wants the opportunity to be the man, and that is not going to happen with Doncic hogging the ball. I know many will say how is booker different - well he is different because I think he is content to play off the ball as long as he still gets his shots.

I keep seeing the Suns can do better than Smith - and I keep asking myself how? The only young PG I can think of who is better or has more upside is D'Arron Fox who obviously is not available. Maybe Trae Young? He's not available either. For a bit older player - I do love Brogdan - but I really don't think he will be available. There is no realistic chance at Kemba. No realistic chance at Irving. A very small chance at Lillard but it would cost a fortune and with his age not sure he fits our timeline. Maybe a chance at Holliday - but he is much older also and we probably would not be his preferred destination.

Who is it you guys think would be better and would be fine being a Phoenix Sun? Cause I just don't see where they exist.

I don't think there are easy answers. You have to factor in the cost of acquisition and the future cost as well. Additionally, you have to consider the cost to the other team as well.

Brogdon, for example, may very well end up being available. Bucks have $91M+ committed next year already and that's without Bledsoe, Brogdon, and Lopez. It is also assuming that Middleton doesn't opt out and needs to be signed. I am guessing they'll have to pick one of the PGs and let the other one go. Smart move would be to go with Brogdon, but if they sign Bledsoe, then Brogdon is available.

Also, Holiday is not "much" older. He is 28. That is NOT too old to fit the "timeline", whatever the hell that means.

As for Walker, it depends on what Charlotte wants to do. They can definitely pay him more, but if the Suns finish the season strong, I can see him taking a look at Phoenix. In order for that to happen though, Booker and Ayton have to looks really good between now and the end of the year, and they have to win some games.

Tyus Jones can probably be had if the Suns believe he is a starter material. Minni is crippled with KAt and Wiggins' salaries.

Collison or Joseph might be available as well. Both of them will be free agents, and while Indiana only has $59M committed to salaries next year, they will have a bunch of rotation players that become free agents.In addition to Collison and Joseph, Young, Bogdanovic, and Evans will be free agents. Neither of those guys are "great" point guards, but they are certainly competent point guards.

As for Smith, he needs the ball in his hands, and so does Booker. He is not very good off the ball, and he likes to play hero ball. He cost Dallas a game because he wouldn't run the play they designed and wanted to take the shot himself. He didn't get the shot off in time, missed it anyway, and Luka had a certain F work for him. If he can't play with Doncic, he will not be a good fit next to Booker. While Booker is more effective than Doncic off the ball and probably needs the ball in his hands a little less than Luka, Doncic is a better facilitator simply because he's been a facilitator his entire career. I think Booker is a willing passer, and is doing a great job playing point on offense, but he is not as good at it. Smith off the ball is useless. I've seen all but three Dallas games this year, and Smith is at best Suns Bledsoe and Knight. I wouldn't be upset if he came to Phoenix as a stopgap, but that's because of how bad the Suns PGs are, and not because Smith is actually good.

Of course, it's easier for me to theorize here and look at different options than it is for Jones to actually trade for or sign one of these PGs, so who knows how it all plays out. I think the big question is whether the Suns need a big-time PG (Walker, Lillard, Holiday) or if a competent, low-key PG is what they need (such as Collison.)I'd really love to know what Sarver and Jones think in that regard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Again, on Smith, if they are giving him away I'd be interested. I'm not sure how many of our problems he solves but he's at least another weapon and maybe Koko can work some Donovan Mitchell magic on him?

 

[Hoop Head]

Except that it was McD who said that and he is no longer here. So things are completely unknown now as far as predicting what this team will do.

I know it was McD who made that claim last draft but the assistant GM from that draft is now the GM and we have the same coach and owner as when those statements were made also. So while the person saying it is different it's not like it's an entirely new regime.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have no idea who should sit, maybe trade one for the right guy.

Rozier- 8.8ppg 4rpg 2.8ast in 22.8minutes
Melton- 6.2ppg 2.7rpg 3.2ast in 20.9minutes

I don't watch Rozier, maybe I'm missing something but their stats are very similar. In fact Melton has more assists in less minutes.

Maybe someone who watches Rozier on a regular basis can shed some light on the hype.

Sure, I can. Rozier sucks. If that’s who jones is targeting I’m terrified for our future.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Rozier with 0 pts, 3 rebs, 2 assists in 17 minutes tonight for a -20 +/-. Boston's bench was horrible in the loss to Atlanta. Cannot figure out what happened to this guy. He was good last year.

 

[sunsfan88]

Rozier with 0 pts, 3 rebs, 2 assists in 17 minutes tonight for a -20 +/-. Boston's bench was horrible in the loss to Atlanta. Cannot figure out what happened to this guy. He was good last year.

He seems to only produce in starting roles. Did decent this season when he started as Kyrie missed a few games.

I’m still not a fan of his game and would rather we go in a different direction.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Is it just me, or does it look like Igor has moved Okobo ahead of Crawford on the depth chart?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Is it just me, or does it look like Igor has moved Okobo ahead of Crawford on the depth chart?

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/suns-jamal-crawford-unavailable-saturday/

Crawford was out the last 2 games for personal reasons, so that should be factored in. My guess is the backup pg will be dictated by the matchups and situations as the season goes on. Developing Okobo is a smart play for an 11-win team, but Crawford has done everything you want from a veteran, and his calming presence has been really helpful at times this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

Definitely not a good outcome for Barea.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[JCSunsfan]

After reading this, I am wondering if our best approach should be to develop Melton instead of searching elsewhere for a pg. If he had enough minutes to qualify, Melton would be leading the league in steal % (he is at 3.75 per 48). This article makes the case that every steal is worth 9 points of game impact. Not sure I buy it, but it is interesting.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-value-of-the-nba-steal/

Yes, this pretty much means a steal is “worth” as much as nine points. To put it more precisely: A marginal steal is weighted nine times more heavily when predicting a player’s impact than a marginal point.At least when averaged over a sufficient number of games (about 15 or 20). Note that the weighting of steals in PER was approximately equal to a made two-point basket, or roughly equivalent to two PPG (off by nearly a factor of five). Value for turnovers is negative.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-value-of-the-nba-steal/#fn-6
For example, a player who averages 16 points and two steals per game is predicted (assuming all else is equal) to have a similar impact on his team’s success as one who averages 25 points but only one steal. If these players were on different teams and were both injured at the same time, we would expect their teams to have similar decreases in performance (on average).

 

[Proximo]

After reading this, I am wondering if our best approach should be to develop Melton instead of searching elsewhere for a pg. If he had enough minutes to qualify, Melton would be leading the league in steal % (he is at 3.75 per 48). This article makes the case that every steal is worth 9 points of game impact. Not sure I buy it, but it is interesting.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-value-of-the-nba-steal/

Yes, this pretty much means a steal is “worth” as much as nine points. To put it more precisely: A marginal steal is weighted nine times more heavily when predicting a player’s impact than a marginal point.At least when averaged over a sufficient number of games (about 15 or 20). Note that the weighting of steals in PER was approximately equal to a made two-point basket, or roughly equivalent to two PPG (off by nearly a factor of five). Value for turnovers is negative.
For example, a player who averages 16 points and two steals per game is predicted (assuming all else is equal) to have a similar impact on his team’s success as one who averages 25 points but only one steal. If these players were on different teams and were both injured at the same time, we would expect their teams to have similar decreases in performance (on average).

That just doesn't seem to make sense.

50% field goal percentage being generous - 2.5 points

So on an average steal you take 1.25 points from one team and add 1.25 points to your team - So best case it is worth 2.5 points. Maybe you could say it adds a point or two from making the guy he's guarding more careful, but 9 pts seems way to high.

With that said, I am beginning to think just going with Melton as our starter might be the right move. His defense is great, his passing is getting noticeably better, and his 3pt shot is not terrible at 32.4%

A year from now I think he can be a guy that scores 8 - 10 pts on 43% shooting and hits threes at about 35% and avg 6 assists or so. That really is probably good enough considering the defense he gives us. Of course at the end of next year he is a free agent - man that was a stupid blunder.

 

[Mainstreet]

A year from now I think he can be a guy that scores 8 - 10 pts on 43% shooting and hits threes at about 35% and avg 6 assists or so. That really is probably good enough considering the defense he gives us. Of course at the end of next year he is a free agent - man that was a stupid blunder.

I never did understand the thinking of signing Melton to only a 2 year contract while Okobo was signed to a 4 year contract.