2018 2nd round pick is Christian Kirk

[CFLredzoned]

His YPC as a Jr was .3 greater than his freshman year. 4 TDS as a JR against the SEC, half of which were against Arkansas.

What do you see?

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Very little separation against college corners. Very little ability to break tackles. I am not great at projecting WRs—I hated Andre Johnson coming out. But this enthusiasm makes little sense to me.

Yeah that video isn't very encouraging. I was hoping he would be twitchier. But you look at the way he's built and I fear that he might be a bit of a tweaner. Too thick to be elusive. Not tall enough to catch 50/50 balls - and from what I've seen, he doesn't seem to be very instictive when it comes to high pointing contested passes.

On the positive side, he has quick reactions and good hands as long as he doesn't have to elevate much. A short sudden pass drilled to him over the middle won't catch him off guard and doink off his pads. Right now, only Larry has that going for him. So that should make him a useful possession receiver. And a good punt returner. I don't know why I'm thinking Andre Roberts because I remember Roberts being a little more elusive.

 

[kerouac9]

the last two years his QBs were Trevor Knight, whose Qb prowess we got to witness in last year's pre-season, and, in 2017 someone named Kellen Mond -- who completed 51% of his passes.

And that's the reason he wasn't getting separation against college DBs and getting buried in the backfield on bubble screens against legit competition?

I don't want to be cast as the guy who thinks Kirk is gonna bust, but expectations matter. AJ's nuts if he thinks that Chrisitan Kirk is gonna be mentioned alongside A.J. Green as one of the best WRs in the NFL (which apparently is what Paul Calvisi thinks, too). There is no heir-apparent or replacement for Larry Fitzgerald.

Someone comp'ed Golden Tate. Kirk didn't look as sudden to me as Tate does, and IMO Tate's more of a savage than Kirk has seemed to me. But I think that would make him a solid draft pick as a secondary receiver who can move the chains and put some exciting plays together but won't get you to the playoffs if he's your best wideout.

I really have a hard time envisioning him succeeding on the outside.

 

[football karma]

And that's the reason he wasn't getting separation against college DBs and getting buried in the backfield on bubble screens against legit competition?

I don't want to be cast as the guy who thinks Kirk is gonna bust, but expectations matter. AJ's nuts if he thinks that Chrisitan Kirk is gonna be mentioned alongside A.J. Green as one of the best WRs in the NFL (which apparently is what Paul Calvisi thinks, too). There is no heir-apparent or replacement for Larry Fitzgerald.
.

anybody who compares him at this point to AJ Green, or, being a HOF heir apparent is way too far over their skis. I think the nice hometown kid story is driving expectations as well..

I would be thrilled with Julian Edelman like performance

 

[MadCardDisease]

And that's the reason he wasn't getting separation against college DBs and getting buried in the backfield on bubble screens against legit competition?

I don't want to be cast as the guy who thinks Kirk is gonna bust, but expectations matter. AJ's nuts if he thinks that Chrisitan Kirk is gonna be mentioned alongside A.J. Green as one of the best WRs in the NFL (which apparently is what Paul Calvisi thinks, too). There is no heir-apparent or replacement for Larry Fitzgerald.

Someone comp'ed Golden Tate. Kirk didn't look as sudden to me as Tate does, and IMO Tate's more of a savage than Kirk has seemed to me. But I think that would make him a solid draft pick as a secondary receiver who can move the chains and put some exciting plays together but won't get you to the playoffs if he's your best wideout.

I really have a hard time envisioning him succeeding on the outside.

I agree with most of what you said but the statement that I have bolded is just not true. You don't need a Larry Fitzgerald to make the playoffs.

Look at the Jacksonville. They made it pretty far in the playoffs with trash at WR.

The Titans, Chiefs, Bills, Panthers, and Rams all made it to the playoffs without a true #1 WR.

Is it nice to have a true #1 WR on your offense... Yes.

But it isn't necessary.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think Larry Fitzgerald is a top WR. He's had an interesting career. He's been a Top 15 WR probably every year of his career, but I don't know if he's been a top 5 WR in any year of his career (as illustrated by his lack of First-team All-Pro accolades.

Pretty small sample size looking at one seasons' playoff entrants. If we were looking at 2 years ago, we'd have almost every playoff team with a true #1 WR. I guess you can go 9-7 and back your way into the playoffs with little at WR (I'd disagree with the Rams, Panthers, and Chiefs not having a true #1), and Tennessee had Delanie Walker at TE, who is a dynamic 2-way TE.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

JFC get a life dude.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maybe K9 will change his tune on Kirk if he gets a favorable Madden rating.

*for the record I'm not 100% sold on Kirk either but your takes as a whole are trash and meant solely to provoke.

 

[ajcardfan]

AJ's nuts if he thinks that Chrisitan Kirk is gonna be mentioned alongside A.J. Green as one of the best WRs in the NFL (which apparently is what Paul Calvisi thinks, too). There .

I never thought anything of the sort. I would like to put my own words in my mouth please.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

His YPC as a Jr was .3 greater than his freshman year. 4 TDS as a JR against the SEC, half of which were against Arkansas.

What do you see?

OBJ had 2 TD's against the SEC his last year. Julio Jones had 3 TD's against SEC his last year.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't think Larry Fitzgerald is a top WR. He's had an interesting career. He's been a Top 15 WR probably every year of his career, but I don't know if he's been a top 5 WR in any year of his career (as illustrated by his lack of First-team All-Pro accolades.

Pretty small sample size looking at one seasons' playoff entrants. If we were looking at 2 years ago, we'd have almost every playoff team with a true #1 WR. I guess you can go 9-7 and back your way into the playoffs with little at WR (I'd disagree with the Rams, Panthers, and Chiefs not having a true #1), and Tennessee had Delanie Walker at TE, who is a dynamic 2-way TE.

He was statistically top 5 in 2005 and arguably the best receiver in the league in 2008. For his career he is 3rd all time in receptions, 8th all time in receiving TDs, 3rd all time in receiving yards and that is with some pretty terrible QB play as well. Hard to put up massive numbers when your QB play sucks and you have a porous offensive line that makes it even more difficult on the already below average QB. It's not a coincidence that quite possibly the best year of his career (2008) was with the best quarterback that he ever played with in Warner.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I have a feeling that if we ever win a Superbowl, k9's first reaction will be to complain about how smudged the Lombardi trophy is.

 

[kerouac9]

OBJ had 2 TD's against the SEC his last year. Julio Jones had 3 TD's against SEC his last year.

Is Kirk as physically gifted as those guys?

He was statistically top 5 in 2005 and arguably the best receiver in the league in 2008. For his career he is 3rd all time in receptions, 8th all time in receiving TDs, 3rd all time in receiving yards and that is with some pretty terrible QB play as well. Hard to put up massive numbers when your QB play sucks and you have a porous offensive line that makes it even more difficult on the already below average QB. It's not a coincidence that quite possibly the best year of his career (2008) was with the best quarterback that he ever played with in Warner.

Okay. So maybe 2 seasons he was a top 5 WR. Hard for me to give Fitz much demerit for poor QB play when some of his best statistical seasons came when Whis shrugged his shoulders and threw the ball to Fitz 10 times a game.

Did Fitz not play QB with Warner in 2006 and 2007 and 2009? Looks like he did.

The counting stats are impressive, but they’re in a context of an unusually long career in an era when passing numbers across the board have been off the charts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think Larry Fitzgerald is a top WR. He's had an interesting career. He's been a Top 15 WR probably every year of his career, but I don't know if he's been a top 5 WR in any year of his career (as illustrated by his lack of First-team All-Pro accolades.

Pretty small sample size looking at one seasons' playoff entrants. If we were looking at 2 years ago, we'd have almost every playoff team with a true #1 WR. I guess you can go 9-7 and back your way into the playoffs with little at WR (I'd disagree with the Rams, Panthers, and Chiefs not having a true #1), and Tennessee had Delanie Walker at TE, who is a dynamic 2-way TE.

This is just trolling.

The Rams, Panthers, Chiefs and Texans have true #1s or 1 equivalents? Delaney Walker had 800 yards and 3TDs. That’s not dynamic. It’s a good TE season but dynamic is a joke.

Who in the world was the Rams number 1? If you say Sammy Watkins... a guy who barely scratched 1k yards once on the good side, once on the bad, in FOUR years, you should be laughed off the board. And his 58 ypg average... in a passing league is mediocre to the core.

And the Panthers? Are you huffing ether? Are you going to really argue that Devin Funcess... of his impressive 840 yards last year and his 840 and 9 TDS COMBINED the previous two years is a number 1?! Olson was crap last year.

The Chiefs have a dynamic TE and a great number 2/borderline 1 so I’ll give you that one.

And Larry’s not a top WR... my lord. Consistency AND sustainability are rare commodities and VALUED commodities at that position which sees more than its fair share of flameouts. Throw in becoming one of the best blocking WRs in the game along with four or five massive games in the playoffs and it’s just flat out stupid to say he’s not a top WR.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Is Kirk as physically gifted as those guys?



Okay. So maybe 2 seasons he was a top 5 WR. Hard for me to give Fitz much demerit for poor QB play when some of his best statistical seasons came when Whis shrugged his shoulders and threw the ball to Fitz 10 times a game.

Did Fitz not play QB with Warner in 2006 and 2007 and 2009? Looks like he did.

The counting stats are impressive, but they’re in a context of an unusually long career in an era when passing numbers across the board have been off the charts.

I think you are looking at the stats in a black and white way, but there are many shades of grey when it comes to statistics. The truth is that a lot of the best receivers of all time weren't constantly top 5 in the league statistically from year to year. Both Moss and Owens for instance had plenty of years where they weren't top 5 and Fitz is right there with those guys in career numbers with both of those guys having played more seasons then Fitz has.

The one place where Fitz is a ways away from Owens and Moss are TDs, but that can be explained away by just how poor the Cards entire offense was for most of the time Fitz has been on the team. If a team can't regularly move the ball down to the red zone and there isn't a QB that can regularly find the open man once they get there than that is going to take a toll on a receivers TD numbers.

 

[iLLmatiC]

I have a feeling that if we ever win a Superbowl, k9's first reaction will be to complain about how smudged the Lombardi trophy is.

Anything for a reaction. I'm surprised the board is surprised. This is his schtick. He's the resident board troll but he's our board troll.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Good to see K9 has found his annual whipping boy from the draft.

 

[Buckybird]

K9’s POV is just like the Browns booing the Mayfield pick, both teams got it right

 

[gmabel830]

Good to see K9 has found his annual whipping boy from the draft.

May he be as terrible as Daryl Washington before the weed.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[HeHasRosen]

1. Kirk is the best route runner next to Ridley. One of the toughest things to learn at WR. Its how you get separation in this league. Everyone is fast. Oh and Fitz (one of the best at this) to show him how to improve even more.

2. Great hands. Something you cant teach. Just look at a few of the guys we have had lately. Cant hold on to the ball. Its kinda important.

Fitz is top 5 WR all time. Stop that not a top WR nonsense please

 

[TJ]

Larry Fitzgerald needs 92 catches to have the second most receptions in NFL history behind Jerry Rice

Larry Fitzgerald needs 390 yards to have the second most receiving yards in NFL history behind Jerry Rice

Larry Fitzgerald needs 5 TDs to have the sixth most receiving TDs in NFL history

This is all considering the instability at the QB position his entire career, which is about to get even more unstable next season.

At worst, Larry Fitzgerald is a Top-5 WR of all time.

 

[oaken1]

Larry Fitzgerald needs 92 catches to have the second most receptions in NFL history behind Jerry Rice

Larry Fitzgerald needs 390 yards to have the second most receiving yards in NFL history behind Jerry Rice

Larry Fitzgerald needs 5 TDs to have the sixth most receiving TDs in NFL history

This is all considering the instability at the QB position his entire career, which is about to get even more unstable next season.

At worst, Larry Fitzgerald is a Top-5 WR of all time.

Larry is #2 all time and the stats will bear that out before he retires.

Lousy QB play has its pros and cons in regards to his stats... yes, inaccurate passes... but if you suck at QB and need to get a completion,...who ya gonna throw it to?? Those guys looked for Larry to bail them out a lot..... he had tons of targets to take advantage of.

when you start adding in the man of the year and face of the franchise.... it becomes clear.

Moss?? T.O.?? Really?? Those guys were very talented but in no way what so ever would I want T.O. representing my team.

more goes in to being a GOAT than just stats IMO... I love Jerry, but his last few years he was a bitch... whined, cried, complained, threw team mates under the bus... he did everything he could to try to get more opportunities to pad his stats....

I dont think Larry is going to go out like that.... IMO that will put him in the discussion as the GOAT,...but Jerry's stats are just huge, so that will overcome some attitude issues later in his career.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Stats don’t tell the whole story with Fitz. Not all catches are same. If you take a film reel of Larry’s top 10 catches during his career, there would be only a handful of players in history with the skill to make those difficult catches. That makes Larry a HOF and one of he best ever...stats be damned

 

[Jetstream Green]

Stats don’t tell the whole story with Fitz. Not all catches are same. If you take a film reel of Larry’s top 10 catches during his career, there would be only a handful of players in history with the skill to make those difficult catches. That makes Larry a HOF and one of he best ever...stats be damned

I have never seen a WR take over a game in crucial moments as I have in Larry's career. Rice was freaking an alien with what he accomplished but he does not trump Larry when the spotlight was on him. The only guy which I have seen which came remotely close was Michael Irvin, though I cannot stand the guy. Plus, if there was one guy who could keep playing and get towards those unreal stats, it is Larry with his mastery of every aspect of the position and his conditioning

 

[HeHasRosen]

Theres only one man more clutch than Larry Fitzgerald in the history of the NFL and thats Tom Brady

 

[GatorAZ]

Theres only one man more clutch than Larry Fitzgerald in the history of the NFL and thats Tom Brady

And Montana/Rice.