2018 Draft: Wonderlic Scores of top QBs

[oaken1]

And he entered the league as a potential QB, right?

his first playing time in the NFL was as a WR... then he played some QB a couple weeks later, then more WR....

dude may have been a decent QB had a team worked on developing him.... but as an nfl passer he has been under 50% and has more INT's than TD's...

because he averaged about 800 yds a season at around 6 yds per carry in college...he, like many others, was considered more an "athlete" than a QB regardless of the fact that in his final season at OSU he completed 65% of his passes for 2700 yds and 27 TD's with only 11 picks... and at 6'4" and 230 he was much more a prototype QB than Lamar Jackson is...
lots of NFL guys really have a hard time seeing a runner as a passer.

 

[oaken1]

one thing they also had in common...
it was reported that Pryor scored a 7 on his first attempt at the wonderlic...while answering 48 of the 50 questions.
an "expert" retested him, and later came out and said Pryor never scored as low as a 7... but at the time the scores were still kinda secret.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ic-score-better-7-says-pittsburgh-steelers-gm


so.... Guy plays QB..... guy scores low on wonderlic..... NFL then tries to turn guy into a WR....and as mentioned before... pryor was a better QB in a stronger conference

 

[moklerman]

Name the 'one' that has the singular talents he has to play the QB position at the NFL level?

That's not really the point, though is it? There have been plenty of athletic white guys who were asked to switch positions. It isn't just the persecution of Lamar Jackson.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Josh Cribbs and Julian Edelman both set records at their school... Kordell Stewart played a slash position...

Braxton Miller was asked to, Richard Sherman was a receiver, JJ Watt a TE.

There are questions about Jackson's ability to run a pro style offense. I think hand waving it as racism is pretty silly, since it's in no way the first time it happened.

Still waiting for an example of first round QB talent and I think, as was with Vick, a pro style offence will be designed around his self-evident and unique talents.

 

[GimmedaBall]

The conversion from QB to some other position did have an original racial bias when teams wanted a gifted black athlete on the team but also did not want to have him playing QB.

Now, the move is more about getting a gifted athlete on the team and not about the racial or ethnic background. See Julian Edelman as a white QB who made a successful career in NFL as a WR/KR guy.

Check out Pryor's comment regarding his desire to play in the NFL: "I would like the opportunity to play quarterback," Pryor said, "but I'll do anything that the team needs me to do to win." (Right answer---come on down).

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/college_qbs_position_switch/intro.html

Other examples of successful conversions:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/12_college_quarterbacks_who_ex.html

Also, Bill Polian needs to be taken seriously. HOF, 23 years in the league as a GM. You may not like him or his style---but anything he has to say has merit---and also possible insider info the average fan doesn't have.

Not sure why trying to get a guy on your team and then utilitzing him to win and providing a professional career is so bad??? The modern NFL team and owners want to win the SB---they're not looking at skin color anymore for QBs.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That's not really the point, though is it? There have been plenty of athletic white guys who were asked to switch positions. It isn't just the persecution of Lamar Jackson.

If your point is to muddy the issue by throwing in a host of positions and bypassing his unique abilities you've succeeded to the satisfaction of some.

Let's leave at that.

 

[moklerman]

If your point is to muddy the issue by throwing in a host of positions and bypassing his unique abilities you've succeeded to the satisfaction of some.

Let's leave at that.

Well, that wasn't my point or the examples I used. Tebow and Crouch were both Heisman winning QB's and all of the other examples were QB's. Seems pretty evident that Jackson isn't being singled out in any way, much less his skin color.

That's isn't to say that it hasn't happened in the past. Warren Moon is a good example. But, I think we have to be careful about applying the attitudes of the past to today's NFL. IMO, if a guy can play, no one cares about his skin color in today's game.

I think it's just as bad or maybe worse to accuse someone of racism when all they're doing is expressing doubts about a player's abilities.

 

[moklerman]

Still waiting for an example of first round QB talent and I think, as was with Vick, a pro style offence will be designed around his self-evident and unique talents.

Tim Tebow was literally a first round pick, so I'm not sure why you'd dismiss him. Also, what unique talent are you referring to with Jackson? He's not the first or only QB who's been able to run a lot as well as throwing it(in college).

 

[GuernseyCard]

Well, that wasn't my point or the examples I used. Tebow and Crouch were both Heisman winning QB's and all of the other examples were QB's. Seems pretty evident that Jackson isn't being singled out in any way, much less his skin color.

That's isn't to say that it hasn't happened in the past. Warren Moon is a good example. But, I think we have to be careful about applying the attitudes of the past to today's NFL. IMO, if a guy can play, no one cares about his skin color in today's game.

I think it's just as bad or maybe worse to accuse someone of racism when all they're doing is expressing doubts about a player's abilities.

Ok...

But, I'd be more convinced if those making the suggestion had put their names to their thoughts.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Tim Tebow was literally a first round pick, so I'm not sure why you'd dismiss him. Also, what unique talent are you referring to with Jackson? He's not the first or only QB who's been able to run a lot as well as throwing it(in college).

Well, I wasn't the only one who dismissed Tebow as a first round pick and were proven right.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Here's a Sports Illustrated Article from 2015 that details Carson Palmer going through his preparation and study of the game plan for the week (2-part article, long read).

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/17/nfl-carson-palmer-arizona-cardinals-inside-game-plan

Any athlete going into college as a freshman knows that at the end of his 3-4 years in school he is going to have to take the Wonderlic test. Four years to understand and practice for that test.

Now, how do you imagine someone who gets a low score on the Wonderlic (after 4 years of knowing it is coming) is going to master the complexity of a NFL game plan on a weekly basis??? If they can't master the Wonderlic after 4 years, how are they going to master the game plan in a few days?

Equality of opportunity means that every individual gets judged based on the same criteria during the hiring process. I run a slow 40, I get dinged on my NFL application. I get a low Wonderlic, I get dinged on my NFL application. Nothing sinister---we all get the same set of hurdles to showcase our talents.

In the recent past, you could be justified in pointing to the racist practices of NFL teams. Now more than ever, the player is who the player shows he is.

 

[moklerman]

Well, I wasn't the only one who dismissed Tebow as a first round pick and were proven right.

That isn't the point, though. Tebow was a running, throwing, Heisman winning, 1st round prospect coming out of college and it was suggested that he change positions because of his shortcomings at QB but elite athleticism. If you don't think he's similar enough to Jackson for comparison I don't think you're being honest about the conversation.

And, unfortunately for Tebow, I think his off the field persona had a lot more to do with why he's out of the NFL than his abilities as a QB. If he wasn't a polarizing, distracting celebrity I think he'd still be in the league.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That isn't the point, though. Tebow was a running, throwing, Heisman winning, 1st round prospect coming out of college and it was suggested that he change positions because of his shortcomings at QB but elite athleticism. If you don't think he's similar enough to Jackson for comparison I don't think you're being honest about the conversation.

And, unfortunately for Tebow, I think his off the field persona had a lot more to do with why he's out of the NFL than his abilities as a QB. If he wasn't a polarizing, distracting celebrity I think he'd still be in the league.

My God!

Can't believe you are going to compare Tebow the shot putter with TJ as a thrower and his fullback running ability with that of one of the fastest, most elusive runners since Vick.

Tebow had more than one opportunity to stay in the League and failed on the field of play.

 

[moklerman]

My God!

Can't believe you are going to compare Tebow the shot putter with TJ as a thrower and his fullback running ability with that of one of the fastest, most elusive runners since Vick.

Tebow had more than one opportunity to stay in the League and failed on the field of play.

Yet, Tebow completed a MUCH higher percentage of his passes for more ypa, more TD's and a higher rating and in the SEC. Tebow was as prolific a QB as there's been in the NCAA so to act like Jackson is somehow clearly better is a bit of a reach.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Yet, Tebow completed a MUCH higher percentage of his passes for more ypa, more TD's and a higher rating and in the SEC. Tebow was as prolific a QB as there's been in the NCAA so to act like Jackson is somehow clearly better is a bit of a reach.

Interesting that you can't imagine a bias when it comes to TJ but no problem conceiving one when it comes to Tebow.

Cheers...

 

[moklerman]

Interesting that you can't imagine a bias when it comes to TJ but no problem conceiving one when it comes to Tebow.

Cheers...

What bias? Disagreeing with your perception of Tebow isn't claiming you have a bias. I just don't agree with your idea that Tebow wasn't as good of a prospect as Jackson.

 

[BigRedRage]

Then pull out a question from the Wonderlic which is racial in its disadvantage. I didn't think so and neither could the people making that observation... it's hard to have a racial variance on a test which is analytical since numbers have no particular inherent color

The alphabet is racist

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

The alphabet is racist

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

Apparently logical thinking is too!

 

[oaken1]

What bias? Disagreeing with your perception of Tebow isn't claiming you have a bias. I just don't agree with your idea that Tebow wasn't as good of a prospect as Jackson.

some folks just do not have it in them to admit they are wrong. I think the overwhelming need to be right is due to damaged self esteem in some way. or just a love of disagreement. Tim Tebow and Terrelle Pryor were both comparable QB's to Lamar....Pryor has a decent NFL career...as a WR...and Tebow is rocking it as an analyst because he would not play TE or H-back

 

[moklerman]

some folks just do not have it in them to admit they are wrong. I think the overwhelming need to be right is due to damaged self esteem in some way. or just a love of disagreement. Tim Tebow and Terrelle Pryor were both comparable QB's to Lamar....Pryor has a decent NFL career...as a WR...and Tebow is rocking it as an analyst because he would not play TE or H-back

Tebow is a difficult discussion IMO. While I was not his biggest fan and am just as skeptical of his throwing mechanics, I think there is more to why he isn't in the NFL than just that. Because he was a (religious)rock star, it made it practically impossible to sign him and develop him the way that he needed. If he wasn't so popular, I'm optimistic that he could have been made into a serviceable QB at the NFL level.

But, as Kaepernick has so clearly illustrated, NFL teams do have a line they won't cross. Politics and religion can become too much to take on and I think Tebow suffered from that. Which compounded his shortcomings as a player. On top of all of that, serviceable wasn't really an option for Tebow. His gaudy...unworldly numbers in college skewed any realistic expectations of him IMO.

 

[GuernseyCard]

some folks just do not have it in them to admit they are wrong. I think the overwhelming need to be right is due to damaged self esteem in some way. or just a love of disagreement. Tim Tebow and Terrelle Pryor were both comparable QB's to Lamar....Pryor has a decent NFL career...as a WR...and Tebow is rocking it as an analyst because he would not play TE or H-back

Well, based on this, I strongly suggest that all 32 teams avoid drafting TJ. He's no better than Tebow or Pryor, who both failed, as a QB prospect and given that he's never caught a pass it's doubtful he can make it as a receiver.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Moving players from their original college position to a different one happens often in the NFL.

Cards have several starters who are making a living as professional football players because they got drafted and then embraced the change.

DBUC went from safety to $ILB (perhaps acutally 'inventing' the role), Hump played RT before going back to his college LT, Reddick making the transition to ILB and now back to OLB, Ricky-Seals Jones went from WR to playing TE, Boehm drafted as a C and playing guard. Lots of OL guys get shuffled around---and they embrace the different roles simply to increase their value to the team. Those are just off the top of my 'wait-for-the-coffee-to-brew' brain.

Wonder where they would be if they just flat-out told the coaching staff that they were only going to play their college position?

 

[BW52]

Well, based on this, I strongly suggest that all 32 teams avoid drafting TJ. He's no better than Tebow or Pryor, who both failed, as a QB prospect and given that he's never caught a pass it's doubtful he can make it as a receiver.

Lamar Jackson is a QB and anyone thinking otherwise will be shown to be mistaken.Terrelle Pryor was not as good as Jackson as being a NFL QB prospect. Jackson has untapped potential and a cannon arm to go with tremendous athletic ability.He does need work as do every QB prospect in the draft.If people can`t see the potential then they are just being haters or fools and have a agenda.

 

[Solar7]

Lamar Jackson is a QB and anyone thinking otherwise will be shown to be mistaken.Terrelle Pryor was not as good as Jackson as being a NFL QB prospect. Jackson has untapped potential and a cannon arm to go with tremendous athletic ability.He does need work as do every QB prospect in the draft.If people can`t see the potential then they are just being haters or fools and have a agenda.

Your blind faith that he's going to succeed is just as bad as being a "hater, fool, or having an agenda."

I think he'll be a good player and would be happy for the Cardinals to draft him, but to pretend that there's no way he can fail is shortsighted.

 

[BW52]

Your blind faith that he's going to succeed is just as bad as being a "hater, fool, or having an agenda."

I think he'll be a good player and would be happy for the Cardinals to draft him, but to pretend that there's no way he can fail is shortsighted.

Never said he was foolproof sure thing.Said he will show he is a QB.There is no such thing as a sure thing concerning the NFL.