2021 1st round pick is Zaven Collins

[QuebecCard]

270 Ibs???? Another Nkemdiche whose unmotivated?? If he comes in camp out of shape...fire KEIM and the scouting department. This is ridiculous.

One week of camp and he's at 260.

 

[Stout]

One week of camp and he's at 260.

And he's wasted a week. The days of using training camp to get into shape are loooong over.

 

[juza76]

Were this a good FO with a good track record, I'd probably support the pick and their opinion of it. It's a bottom 5 AT BEST FO, so how am I supposed to have this level of faith?

Also, sure, I may be wrong on the other players. May be wrong on Collins, too. I've been wrong a few times LOL That doesn't make me like this pick, unfortunately. Loved the Simmons pick; hate this one.

Yes u have all the rights to not like pick but I know u are one of the few that can say"I was wrong'' without hesitation

 

[BritCard]

I don't get the "zAveN cOLLiNs iS tOO sLoW" crowd.

If you are using Simmons for comparison then that's hardly fair.

Here's the time's for some good starting LB's in the NFL drafted recently. I had to stretch what you might consider the definition of good because while looking this up it became apparent that there have not been many good ILB's come out of college in recent years.

Dre Greenlaw 4.73 at 237lbs
Leighton Vander Esch 4.65 at 256lb
Reggie Ragland 4.72 at 247lb
Blake Martinez 4.71 at 237lb
Joe Schobert 4.76 at 244lb
Corey Littleton 4.73 at 238lb
Matt Milano 4.67 at 223lb - That's as fast as Collins with 36lbs less weight
Darius Leonard 4.70 at 234lb
Fred Warner 4.64 at 236lb

Tanner Valejo ran the same time as Collins at 31 lbs lighter!

There are a bunch of guys here I know people wanted in FA, or would love to have on this team. Sure, there are some freaks like Devin White and Simmons come out recently but they are the exception, not the rule. And many of them have 20-30lbs on Collins.

So he definitely isn't slow.

 

[BritCard]

From what I've read, Collins is going to be a MIKE linebacker.


By Kevin Zimmerman, Arizona Sports:

April 29, 2021 at 9:52 pm

Cardinals general manager Steve Keim was very clear about where he expects Collins to play.

“He’ll line up at MIKE (inside) linebacker for us, so right beside (inside linebacker) Isaiah Simmons,” Keim said. “This guy has got rare and unusual movement skills for a guy who’s almost 6-foot-5, 265 pounds. You watch him at Tulsa and the way he covers backs and tight ends and slot receivers at times.

“I don’t think he’s a guy that’s a position-less player. I think he’s a guy who’s a MIKE linebacker. It’s not like this is a projection. I know that some people have referred to some players like Haason Reddick … this guy has played stacked linebacker, which is a whole different deal. I think he’s a MIKE linebacker.”


https://arizonasports.com/story/263...-zaven-collins-chess-piece-middle-linebacker/

That's fine with me. Either or he's a great player. As I said above. He's perfect to play MIKE with Simmons at MO.

 

[BritCard]

One week of camp and he's at 260.

He was 259 a few weeks ago. He's likely back in the 250's before he even gets to camp.

 

[BritCard]

And he's wasted a week. The days of using training camp to get into shape are loooong over.

He's not out of shape. I'm sure teams were looking at him for edge so he added 10 lbs.

He will be back in the 250's by camp for sure.

 

[juza76]

I don't get the "zAveN cOLLiNs iS tOO sLoW" crowd.

If you are using Simmons for comparison then that's hardly fair.

Here's the time's for some good starting LB's in the NFL drafted recently. I had to stretch what you might consider the definition of good because while looking this up it became apparent that there have not been many good ILB's come out of college in recent years.

Dre Greenlaw 4.73 at 237lbs
Leighton Vander Esch 4.65 at 256lb
Reggie Ragland 4.72 at 247lb
Blake Martinez 4.71 at 237lb
Joe Schobert 4.76 at 244lb
Corey Littleton 4.37 at 238lb
Matt Milano 4.67 at 223lb - That's as fast as Collins with 36lbs less weight
Darius Leonard 4.70 at 234lb
Fred Warner 4.64 at 236lb

Tanner Valejo ran the same time as Collins at 31 lbs lighter!

There are a bunch of guys here I know people wanted in FA, or would love to have on this team. Sure, there are some freaks like Devin White and Simmons come out recently but they are the exception, not the rule. And many of them have 20-30lbs on Collins.

So he definitely isn't slow.

40 yards dash track speed is certainly different the field speed
I remember Daryl Washington running 4.66 at combine but on the field looked like a 4.45 guy
Collins looks enough fast on the field but the very important is the time of reaction

 

[Vacard]

One week of camp and he's at 260.

Denny Green had a player who was overweight in Minny and he died at camp. Family sued the NFL and the organization. Not saying Collins’ case will be that extreme but it’s still an area of concern. He’ll be playing f catch up with the rest of the players and he’s expected to contribute right away.

 

[QuebecCard]

But they know better then us, they spend hours and hours evaluating those players, they have all the info they needed
The players u like maybe won't pan out or being afflicted with injuries since they have some red flags
Mike Ilb is not a sexy pick but was a position to improve

And you can bet that Jordan Hicks either accepts a cut in salary in 2022 or is a cap casualty with a $3m hit.

 

[Zeno]

Don't love the pick, don't hate the pick. He seems like a guy who can contribute on special teams and situationally on defense right away--with a bigger role as the season progresses.

I still hate this draft format--wish they'd just bring back the 2 day Draft, Rds 1-3 on Saturday and 4-7 on Sunday. I know they do it this way for TV revenue but they just drag this crap out too long.

 

[BritCard]

40 yards dash track speed is certainly different the field speed
I remember Daryl Washington running 4.66 at combine but on the field looked like a 4.45 guy
Collins looks enough fast on the field but the very important is the time of reaction

Well the Cards have all the GPS data so know how fast he is and how quick he reacts. Many teams care little about 40 time now.

(That's assuming Tulsa have GPS capability)

 

[BritCard]

And you can bet that Jordan Hicks either accepts a cut in salary in 2022 or is a cap casualty with a $3m hit.

They can trade him. He has value. Although when he took the cut this year he may have requested a no trade clause.

 

[juza76]

And you can bet that Jordan Hicks either accepts a cut in salary in 2022 or is a cap casualty with a $3m hit.

After hearing Keim words yesterday make me wonder how can u keep a player in the roster that u clearly demoted

 

[QuebecCard]

And he's wasted a week. The days of using training camp to get into shape are loooong over.

A couple of good dumps in the first week and it's done.

I care about his playing weight come September.

 

[juza76]

Well the Cards have all the GPS data so know how fast he is and how quick he reacts. Many teams care little about 40 time now.

(That's assuming Tulsa have GPS capability)

I doubt they have it, i heard just few big college programs use it

 

[QuebecCard]

After hearing Keim words yesterday make me wonder how can u keep a player in the roster that u clearly demoted

We need Hicks now to ease the transition.

 

[juza76]

We need Hicks now to ease the transition.

We need first round picks to start immediately, the transition just slow down the learning curve
If he is good and master of the position as Keim said he is ready to go
Great players starts from day 1

 

[QuebecCard]

Denny Green had a player who was overweight in Minny and he died at camp. Family sued the NFL and the organization. Not saying Collins’ case will be that extreme but it’s still an area of concern. He’ll be playing f catch up with the rest of the players and he’s expected to contribute right away.

And the rules and approaches have changed since then.

The Cards control nutrition at camp.

A few more greens, a few dumps - done!

He won't be absent from drills or screenings - "0" (Ketchup) involved.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He ran faster than Jordan Hicks 40 time and he has 20lbs on Hicks. And Hicks has had multiple injuries since then and is absolutely slower now.

So even if he was going to be an ILB he would be quicker than Hicks. But he's almost certainly going to play OLB.

You keep saying this despite keim coming out and explicitly stating he’s a hicks replacement.

 

[QuebecCard]

We need first round picks to start immediately, the transition just slow down the learning curve
If he is good and master of the position as Keim said he is ready to go
Great players starts from day 1

Good, very good and great players start when they are deemed ready.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because they rated Collins higher.

Philips had injury and field concerns. Rousseau had poor testing and his very raw. Ojulari didn't even go before Tryon and apparently would have been a reach.

OLB's are not just pass rushers. Especially in VJ's scheme. Collins has all the tools to excel at that position and some experience playing the edge at Tulsa. Much easier to teach pass rush moves than the mental

FYI, not that it really matters but Bucky Brooks had Collins as his #1 edge over all these guys. So it's not like the Cards are the only one that see him at OLB.

Except they don’t. Keim said Mike. That’s pretty explicitly NOT olb.

 

[BritCard]

And the rules and approaches have changed since then.

The Cards control nutrition at camp.

A few more greens, a few dumps - done!

He won't be absent from drills or screenings - "0" (Ketchup) involved.

Did anyone look at Collin's last night? Does he look out of shape?

 

[BritCard]

Except they don’t. Keim said Mike. That’s pretty explicitly NOT olb.

As I've said, either way I like him. And he definitely has the ability to switch if for some reason he doesn't work out at ILB.

I personally would have moved him to OLB and it's obvious from Collin's interview he thought himself that was more likely at the next level. But I like him at both.

 

[Stout]

A couple of good dumps in the first week and it's done.

I care about his playing weight come September.

Except a rookie needs to ARRIVE at camp in peak playing condition. Showing up overweight will just make it less likely he contributes early.