Kyler been asking for defensive help
2021 1st round pick is Zaven Collins
- Thread starter BullheadCardFan
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Kyler been asking for defensive help
I got through two pages and got the gist.
I like the pick. First of all, from a pure BPA standpoint he was probably the best player on the board. Farley was too much of a risk, Newsome was too much of a risk, Philips was too much of a risk. I can't see anyone left on the board at #16 that is a better prospect than Collins.
Second, I think some are misunderstanding this pick. This isn't Reddick 2.0. It's extremely difficult to turn an edge rusher into an off ball inside linebacker. The instincts just aren't there. It takes years and years of reps to program those instincts into an NFL level off ball linebacker. We saw it last year with Simmons, and I said it would be that way when we drafted him.
Drafting a guy that already has off ball instincts and can play in space and making him a 3-4 OLB is much, much easier if he has the required size. Which Collins does.
I understand why many were fans of the Simmons move last year, but in many way's this one is better. He already has all the mental and physical ability to play both ILB and OLB, and not only does it give us positional flexibility but also flex with the roster management both this year and next (Kennard is almost certainly gone saving us $7m in cap space).
I'm guessing this year they work him in as an OLB, especially on early downs, with a year to learn the intricacies of pass rushing from CJ and Watt. If they can't come to a deal with CJ next year (or if CJ is cooked) they have a replacement in the wings. Alternatively, if Hicks performances don't pick up they have another option at ILB next year.
Look at it like this. They drafted him to play OLB which we really need, with the added bonus that he can play ILB. Golden, Watt and CJ are OLD and on short deals. We had no depth with any talent except Gardeck who may not be healthy.
OLB was always a big need and we got one and even if I'm wrong and they intend to play him at ILB I like him there too. He has everything you need to play Mike and Simmons has everything required to play Mo.
I like the pick. First of all, from a pure BPA standpoint he was probably the best player on the board. Farley was too much of a risk, Newsome was too much of a risk, Philips was too much of a risk. I can't see anyone left on the board at #16 that is a better prospect than Collins.
Second, I think some are misunderstanding this pick. This isn't Reddick 2.0. It's extremely difficult to turn an edge rusher into an off ball inside linebacker. The instincts just aren't there. It takes years and years of reps to program those instincts into an NFL level off ball linebacker. We saw it last year with Simmons, and I said it would be that way when we drafted him.
Drafting a guy that already has off ball instincts and can play in space and making him a 3-4 OLB is much, much easier if he has the required size. Which Collins does.
I understand why many were fans of the Simmons move last year, but in many way's this one is better. He already has all the mental and physical ability to play both ILB and OLB, and not only does it give us positional flexibility but also flex with the roster management both this year and next (Kennard is almost certainly gone saving us $7m in cap space).
I'm guessing this year they work him in as an OLB, especially on early downs, with a year to learn the intricacies of pass rushing from CJ and Watt. If they can't come to a deal with CJ next year (or if CJ is cooked) they have a replacement in the wings. Alternatively, if Hicks performances don't pick up they have another option at ILB next year.
Look at it like this. They drafted him to play OLB which we really need, with the added bonus that he can play ILB. Golden, Watt and CJ are OLD and on short deals. We had no depth with any talent except Gardeck who may not be healthy.
OLB was always a big need and we got one and even if I'm wrong and they intend to play him at ILB I like him there too. He has everything you need to play Mike and Simmons has everything required to play Mo.
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Let's not pretend it's not common to rotate EDGE guys. In fact it's the smart thing to do to keep them fresh for Q4, especially when the EDGE guys you have are OLD.
CJ has been playing 95-100% of snaps. The 2 games before he was injured he played 100% both games.
Compare that to Cam Jordan who plays about 80%. Or Za'Darius Smith just over 80%. That's about normal.
Markus Golden plays about 70%. So he'll take a bunch of that 30% and take some off CJ early in games. And probably get used a bunch in VJ's 0-6-5 package.
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
That's the operative term. In an all-in year where we have multiple holes, we draft a replacement for a position we already have locked down, thus contradicting the all-in mentality we've built this roster around. A big, slower ILBer to replace...a big, slow ILBer. Ugh, just ugh. He's fast FOR A BIG GUY....he plays fast...IN COLLEGE. Sorry, he'll need to absolutely convince me he has the NFL speed to have any major impact this season, and in the future, before I'll be anything but supremely disappointed with this Keim-time special.
juza76
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I'm not excited i m not disappointed
BTW Hicks was a weak piece of the defense, seeing him trying to chase players, running around him was painful to watch, so upgrading the position won't be bad at all
The ILB is like the basketball playmaker of the defense, if he matches the promises our defense will look much better
We still have a pick in round 2, seeing the list of players available we will certainly have to opportunity to get a quality player
We are not a playoff team yet and we have many holes, we are not a piece away from being a contender, so the best strategy is getting best player available
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I'm neutral on the pick but the Cardinals persistently going after linebackers in the first round makes me wonder.
I understand Zaven Collins is supposed to line up next to Isaiah Simmons and play this season. We shall see. He needs to be an immediate contributor as a 1st round pick.
Wish the Cardinals had kept Haasan Reddick. It would make me feel more comfortable they know what they are doing with their linebackers.
I understand Zaven Collins is supposed to line up next to Isaiah Simmons and play this season. We shall see. He needs to be an immediate contributor as a 1st round pick.
Wish the Cardinals had kept Haasan Reddick. It would make me feel more comfortable they know what they are doing with their linebackers.
juza76
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Its better using Chandler Jones more wisely, playing him 100% of the snaps at 31 is beyond stupid
Krusher kardinals
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This is my first and only piece of advice to you...
If Bidwill is stupid enough to keep him this long, what makes us think anything will change.
Yes, the oversized linebacker that weighs WAY too much and with speed concerns measures up exactly to the oversized safety with wicked speed that projected to be a new-fangled smaller ILBer. Very similar.
Before you comment again and make yourself look like and uneducated, uninformed, and Irresponsible person ...go to your web browser and type in YouTube Zaven Collins highlights.
Then tell me if you don’t see congruent skill set match.
He ran faster than Jordan Hicks 40 time and he has 20lbs on Hicks. And Hicks has had multiple injuries since then and is absolutely slower now.
So even if he was going to be an ILB he would be quicker than Hicks. But he's almost certainly going to play OLB.
DVontel
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So why not just draft a certified OLB instead of a projection?
juza76
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Don't know why u came away with this
Keim has been pretty clear he will play Mike LB
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Yeah, because there will somehow be a bad highlight reel for a 1st-round pick lol Every pick is going to have a good highlight reel. That's somehow going to change my mind?
cardsfanmd
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He was drafted to play the Mike, not OLB....
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From what I've read, Collins is going to be a MIKE linebacker.
By Kevin Zimmerman, Arizona Sports:
April 29, 2021 at 9:52 pm
Cardinals general manager Steve Keim was very clear about where he expects Collins to play.
“He’ll line up at MIKE (inside) linebacker for us, so right beside (inside linebacker) Isaiah Simmons,” Keim said. “This guy has got rare and unusual movement skills for a guy who’s almost 6-foot-5, 265 pounds. You watch him at Tulsa and the way he covers backs and tight ends and slot receivers at times.
“I don’t think he’s a guy that’s a position-less player. I think he’s a guy who’s a MIKE linebacker. It’s not like this is a projection. I know that some people have referred to some players like Haason Reddick … this guy has played stacked linebacker, which is a whole different deal. I think he’s a MIKE linebacker.”
https://arizonasports.com/story/263...-zaven-collins-chess-piece-middle-linebacker/
juza76
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We couldn't fill all the holes with one pick
But being honest, what position was one of the weakest spot last season,Mike Lb Jordan Hicks and his slowness and below average physicality to stop the run
But being honest, what position was one of the weakest spot last season,Mike Lb Jordan Hicks and his slowness and below average physicality to stop the run
Because they rated Collins higher.
Philips had injury and field concerns. Rousseau had poor testing and his very raw. Ojulari didn't even go before Tryon and apparently would have been a reach.
OLB's are not just pass rushers. Especially in VJ's scheme. Collins has all the tools to excel at that position and some experience playing the edge at Tulsa. Much easier to teach pass rush moves than the mental
FYI, not that it really matters but Bucky Brooks had Collins as his #1 edge over all these guys. So it's not like the Cards are the only one that see him at OLB.
Because it came out last week that the Cards like Collin's at OLB.
I like him for Mike too so also fine with me.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
We could have filled ONE of the holes.
Listen, I'm all for BPA. My problem here is that IMO Collins was not at all BPA. There were better players at positions of need than Collins.
football karma
Michael snuggles the cap space
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the reality is that when not a single one of the top 5 players at positions of need went prior to #16, it was going to be a grab bag of choices that were going to make most unhappy
clearly Keim places great value on middle of the field defensive players -- not withstanding his "premium position" statements
clearly Keim places great value on middle of the field defensive players -- not withstanding his "premium position" statements
I remember you dragged the Graves trade down thoroughly and was right at the end. I really hope you are wrong but it’s a lot harder to lose weight and keep it down then to gain weight. Vander Eche’s playing weight is 256, and he’s the player he’s being compared too. I mean if he’s expected to play DE, then it’s another dumb move as well.
For the sake of the team, I hope you are wrong. But being 270ibs on draft day is a concern.
juza76
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But they know better then us, they spend hours and hours evaluating those players, they have all the info they needed
The players u like maybe won't pan out or being afflicted with injuries since they have some red flags
Mike Ilb is not a sexy pick but was a position to improve
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Took me awhile but the Pittsburgh LB he reminds me of is Levon Kirkland, who btw is a LB coach for.... the Cardinals.
Played as heavy as 275 for the Steelers at LB
Played as heavy as 275 for the Steelers at LB
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Were this a good FO with a good track record, I'd probably support the pick and their opinion of it. It's a bottom 5 AT BEST FO, so how am I supposed to have this level of faith?
Also, sure, I may be wrong on the other players. May be wrong on Collins, too. I've been wrong a few times LOL That doesn't make me like this pick, unfortunately. Loved the Simmons pick; hate this one.
